Guilt-toy Now Running On E85 !

[discopotato03]

Yes the emissions test should prove most interesting . Is there any particular level of anything that you think may put you over ?

I reckon availability of E85 is going to depend on demand so the more people use it the more reason sites have to gear up for it .

We as petrol (?) heads are small percentage of the buying public but that doesn't mean we can't get others interested . The general public is going to need convincing that there is a positive benefit in it for them and that it won't kill their engine .

Because the ethanol content is ~ 85% engines tuned for ULP/PULP are going to have problems unless they have self learning type EMS's and have enough reserve capacity (injectors/pump) to make up the difference .

I have seen ad's for "E85 conversion kits" and I imagine they change the injector pulse width enough to run E85 and not go too lean . They look like a black box with a loom that plugs in between the injectors and their factory plugs and the box has a single earth wire running back to the battery - interceptor . Obviously no ignition timing changes at this level .

Guilt Toy I don't expect you to post your PFC settings but it may be a help to others here if someone could either talk about the differences in settings between PULP and E85 tunes or maybe even start a thred or sticky on tuning RB's on E85 .

If there were a few generic maps floating around (all care taken but no ...) it may make it easier for people to try E85 without anything going bang - sort of like a base PFC map but for E85 .

Cheers A .

[Guilt-Toy]

I managed to get from home in Newcastle to the servo at Rozelle on a third of a tank, i leaned it off to 17afr the whole way and it seemed to use a fair bit less.

So i can dare say i am getting around 360 - 400km's out of a tank (300 was freeway km's)

So yeah if your handy with the h/c you can lean it off with the fuel trim and run it leaner and get much better economy, was cruising at about 1.2 lambda and it felt normal, but the exaust was popping every now and then lol.. egt's were higher then normal (e85 normal) but no higher then using BP 98

[Guilt-Toy]

I was watching something on TV last night about e85 and ethanol, and how Brazilian cars MUST use a min of 25% and they have 100% available!

They say that people in Australia are scared to run the stuff, everone i have told about it have said "i wouldn't use it" thats just crap, is this country really full of knuckle dragging bogans who are soo scared of change they have to be sooo stubborn to new ideas?

That black box you mention is worth $800!!! I think the Gov needs to back e85, Mr Rudd is soo keen on this emissions bullshit you would think he could offer some kind of subsudy to make the fuel cheaper for the first 5 years to get it kicked off and get everyone converted to e85 which will help his emissions cause by a crap load!

Anyways its annoying me.. the responses "it will wreck my engine" well i put it in my engine and gained 37kw straight away, and there was still plenty more room available for more.

As for the emissions, i am a litle worried about the small leak i have around my wideband sensor bung just before the cat.. might try to get that repaired.

appart from that I am only worried about the Carbon dioxide content which was sitting at 10% , during the dummy IM240 tests the NOX values did go into the red a couple of times during the hill climbs, but i think also it may have been putting unnesessary load on the engine because the dyno was trying to slow down the speed to follow the test.

it is really hard to say whats going to happen, but i am thinking one of two scenario's, it will pass with flying colours with the emissions soooo damn low they will be scratching their heads, OR it will just scrape in or just fail.

This emissions testing crap has gotten to my head, i had a dream last night that was at the RTA at Botany getting my test done and that i had to wait AGES for them get my car on and someone reversed into my car and smashed it lol

Emission testing in my dreams? I am friggin insane or something lol

There is no point in posting maps up for e85, they will look pretty much the same as a map on pump gas, except the timing would be a little higher. Before and after maps will not show anything on my tunes because converting mine had alot to do with corrections more so then fuel map changing.

Yes the emissions test should prove most interesting . Is there any particular level of anything that you think may put you over ?

I reckon availability of E85 is going to depend on demand so the more people use it the more reason sites have to gear up for it .

We as petrol (?) heads are small percentage of the buying public but that doesn't mean we can't get others interested . The general public is going to need convincing that there is a positive benefit in it for them and that it won't kill their engine .

Because the ethanol content is ~ 85% engines tuned for ULP/PULP are going to have problems unless they have self learning type EMS's and have enough reserve capacity (injectors/pump) to make up the difference .

I have seen ad's for "E85 conversion kits" and I imagine they change the injector pulse width enough to run E85 and not go too lean . They look like a black box with a loom that plugs in between the injectors and their factory plugs and the box has a single earth wire running back to the battery - interceptor . Obviously no ignition timing changes at this level .

Guilt Toy I don't expect you to post your PFC settings but it may be a help to others here if someone could either talk about the differences in settings between PULP and E85 tunes or maybe even start a thred or sticky on tuning RB's on E85 .

If there were a few generic maps floating around (all care taken but no ...) it may make it easier for people to try E85 without anything going bang - sort of like a base PFC map but for E85 .

Cheers A .

[Cubes]

lmao at the dreams. Back at Uni I solved some damn hard assignment problems through dreams.

So in short cruise afr's are up around 16-17:1 (pulp corrected), mild load afr's? and WOT afr's around the 12:1 (pulp corrected)?

[juggernaut1]

Anyways its annoying me.. the responses "it will wreck my engine" well i put it in my engine and gained 37kw straight away, and there was still plenty more room available for more.

The concern I've seen on a few forums seems to be around the longer term effect on the engine on the wear side of things....and specifically whether it affects engine oil much like methanol does.

Only time or having the engine oil analysed will tell.

[Guilt-Toy]

i have leaned it out on cruise while on the freeway to see if it would make a difference. and yes your right, i pretty much use PULP corrected afr's..

Anything leaner then 15:1 afr on cruise and it effects the driveability, but if you lean it out once your on the freeway doing 100k's you can get it pretty lean with no issues

have a look at the AFR line, she is perfect straight! probly around 11.6 11.5 i have it running at the moment, i could lean her off to 12.5 and still be safe

lmao at the dreams. Back at Uni I solved some damn hard assignment problems through dreams.

So in short cruise afr's are up around 16-17:1 (pulp corrected), mild load afr's? and WOT afr's around the 12:1 (pulp corrected)?

[discopotato03]

I think the original ethanol scare started when a few early STi "owners" trashed their engines and Subaru replaced them no questions asked probably to save their reputation .

My answer to that is were these engines in a non std state of tune and were they being thrashed to death - abused .

No doubt you all remember the hue and cry over Toluene being blended in imported fuel until the tax differences were changed .

The big oil companies have every reason to rubbish anything that threatens petrol dollars and if they can scare the uninformed they will .

What I have tried to do is put up links to what is being achieved overseas and now here in Australia with normally aspired and forced induced engines .

The Brazilian examples are good ones because you can always argue that if ethanol was an engine killer they'd all be walking wouldn't they ?

From what I remember reading there is something from ethanol combustion that ends up in the lubricating oil but it's not like nothing from burning ULP/PULP ends up in the oil . The only real fix there is to change the oil and filter at the appropriate intervals .

Personally I think a propper synthetic oil should be used in any half serious performance engine and particularly a turbocharged one .

I'll get back on what some of the US boards have found with E85 and oil contamination .

Cheers A .

[2rismo]

I noticed that the Holden Coupe 60 at the Sydney Motor Show has an E85 badge on the boot. I like the idea of 100% Ethanol ASAP. Either that or we all go out and buy Flex Fuel Rodz. Google it for a hotrod thrill.

[dano4127]

Good work mate! Still really keen to see a $$ per km comp between this and ulp

Good luck with the emissions test cant wait to see your results

[Kinks]

Anything leaner then 15:1 afr on cruise and it effects the driveability, but if you lean it out once your on the freeway doing 100k's you can get it pretty lean with no issues

It's a shame the PFC doesn't have a lean cruise mode but I guess that's asking for too much (I'd ask for knock retard before lean cruise anyway).

[Guilt-Toy]

yeah the PFC is starting to show its limits now for me thats for sure, Its doing okay but i am seriously thinking E11V2

It's a shame the PFC doesn't have a lean cruise mode but I guess that's asking for too much (I'd ask for knock retard before lean cruise anyway).

[Risking]

Get the E11V2!!

Not everyone has said I wont use that mate.

[Cubes]

CLOSED LOOP CONTROL: With both cruise and idle settings

PROGRAMMABLE OUTPUT OPTIONSCLOSED LOOP CONTROL: With both

cruise and idle settings

I presume the programmable output options allows lean cruise?

Nice looking ecu. Witht he PFC when you add up the cost of a decent ebc, z32 afm (mine is already cracking 5v) etc the 'better' ecu's look quite a bit more attractive with all that gear built in (map sensor).

[Guilt-Toy]

LOL.. what do i need?

CLOSED LOOP CONTROL: With both cruise and idle settings

PROGRAMMABLE OUTPUT OPTIONSCLOSED LOOP CONTROL: With both

cruise and idle settings

I presume the programmable output options allows lean cruise?

Nice looking ecu. When you add up the cost of a decent ebc, z32 afm (mine is already cracking 5v) etc the 'better' ecu's looked quite a bit more attractive.

[Cubes]

Not sure what you are getting at?

You need lean cruise. Im asking if programmable output options allow lean cruise.

Their website only has a spec sheet that doesn't outline exactly what options are; 'programmable output options '

[Guilt-Toy]

if i need a motec i need a motec.. but thats going a bit far... might get a vipec or autronic or e11v2...

Not sure what you are getting at?

You need lean cruise. Im asking if programmable output options allow lean cruise.

Their website only has a spec sheet that doesn't outline exactly what options are; 'programmable output options '

[discopotato03]

Matter of opinion I suppose but I would not be any rush to lose the hotwire AFM and I don't think the Haltech supports them . If the engine is tuned to run the clean mixtures at part throttle loads you should get good consumption anyway .

Another thing to look into is best mean torque timing everywhere because thats going to help the engine make the most efficient use of it's air and fuel , probably something best done on a good chassis dyno .

The general has been saying that they want to market a flex fuel VE Commode door that can run up to 85% ethanol - E85 .

I remember someone (Martin Donnon ?) posting that the LS V8's already have flex fuel maps in their EMS's but they're not enabled on Aus spec ECU's . LS Edit may be able to unlock those but not I'm certain .

Cheers A .

[Swiper the Fox]

if i need a motec i need a motec.. but thats going a bit far... might get a vipec or autronic or e11v2...

got a Autronic plug-in with direct fire avail. if you want to have a play with one...got a ViPEC coming as well but it runs waste spark but also has the afm option.

[SirRacer]

Link have put out a good new ecu the G4.

There have been some pretty good results of late in NZ from Link ECU's.

[Guilt-Toy]

i got the exaust leaks fixed.