Intercooler Setup

[funky monkey]

just wondering what you guys think of this setup im working on where ive place the intercooler behind the radiator support and the radiator behind that. im looking at a plazmaman or similar plenum just to finish it off. tell me what you think any constructive critisism would be helpful. the cars currently being setup for hillclimbs and motorkhanas so im looking for response. and yes the afm is mounted in the cooler piping

[InterCooL]

different

did you do this to minimise intercooler piping? was there a big difference in response due to it? just curious

edit: oh just realised that its not complete yet.

tbh i didnt notice a massive difference in lag when i have gone from smic or tmic to fmic. a lot of extra piping but i doubt there would be much difference in laptimes due to response

Edited October 14, 2008 by InterCooL

[funky monkey]

different

did you do this to minimise intercooler piping? was there a big difference in response due to it? just curious

yeah that was the idea not quite complete yet because i still havnt decided on what plenum to use i reckon response should improve a bit i was running a normal fmic before this so as the pipings probably over a meter shorter i am expecting an improvement

[funky monkey]

edit: oh just realised that its not complete yet.

tbh i didnt notice a massive difference in lag when i have gone from smic or tmic to fmic. a lot of extra piping but i doubt there would be much difference in laptimes due to response

yeah its probably not really all that necessary but i like to think every bit helps. also as the car has a vg30 turbo the lags annoying me so if i can reduce that even just slightly i will be happy

[R31Nismoid]

IMO your going to struggle.

Removing the clutch fan and replacing it with a set of thermo's is one thing (and generally doesnt seem to work that well)

But to then then stick a cooler infront of it further restricting the air/function of the radiator... thats another. Especially with lower speed events like hillclimb/khana's where big speed (and therefore airflow) isnt neccesarily going to match the high ends of 1st/2nd gear

I'd expect issues keeping the car cool. yYour going to need as much ducting as possible, blanking off the sides to force air through etc etc

If you wanted to improve response, using a more appropriately sized cooler would have been a better idea... and at the same time moving it infront of the rad support to reduce the heatsoak/transfer.

Any gain from moving the piping is going to be lost by the increase in heat (and size of cooler) as i see it.

People might/might not agree, but thats what i reckon with buggering around with my varying setups over the years.

[funky monkey]

yeah heat transfer from the radiator is something i was concerned about. on the track i will be running water spray and possibly a water injection system to try help keep it cool. ive already started making some ducting and various deflectors to try and direct as much air to the cooler as possible. itll be running at least two 10inch ir possibly bigger spal thermo fans that will be left on constanly ie. no thermo switch and also a nismo thermostadt. the afm is also going to be placed either back in the intake or onto the cold side of the intercooler. and all cooler pipes are to be wrapped in thermo tape. it will also be using a vertex front bumper thats been modified to supply more air to the coolers

[mattysaidso]

id be worried about any dedicated track rb running thermo's instead of the std clutch fan.

some wil probly dissagree here, but i have never seen a thermo fanned car keep cool in qld gettin flogged on track.

[juggernaut1]

Hey Phunky, my tuner has done that setup with an SR in an S14 using an inverted ARE cooler. From memory there is a larger gap btn the cooler and radiator which has then been sealed. Probably to minimise radiant heat. Used AU thermo fans.

Anyway it puts out 440rwhp and apparently holds the lap record at Barbagello on the short circuit. It also generally wins the supersprints and hill climbs at Barbagello....which is not bad for a streetcar with full interior (with half cage). So it can't be a bad setup.

I also spoke to Wayne Embleton of Embleton Engineering here in Perth about that sort of setup some time ago. He mentioned that the response from the shorter piping was noticeably improved.

Cheers,

[shaunzo101]

im my general opinion, there is always going to be a big letdown to these style of modifications ie something thats different. Cars are designed to be optimal from factory but can be improved by adding a fmic etc, but i'd just follow what others have done successfully as they have already experimented with it and have reported good results.

[Beer Baron]

my concerns are you'll need to carefully duct air to them, and not enough gap between rad and intercooler. you are going to get a lot of heat transfer from rad to intercooler which is not good. especially when you are sitting still at the start of a hillclimb for example your intercooelr is going to get heatsoaked very quickly. with it getting up to 80degrees plus BEFORE you even begin pumping any boost through it. it might end up being an interwarmer for the first half of a run! also with so little room between engine and rad you certainly can't fit the standard engine fan and will have trouble fitting any decent sized electric fans either.

I really don't think any benefit in piping length is worth the negatives. also you now have some quite tight radius bends in that pipework which wouldn't be so bad in a more traditional layout.

I'm all for trying new things and the idea had some legs but in practice I don't think it will prove worthwhile.

[funky monkey]

hey thanks for all the comments guys i'll be taking them into consideration. a few problems have already been rectified. i have placed the afm back into the intake and mad a new hot pipe which is a lot smother and is one piece. it seems everyone is generally against the idea of thermo fans if anyone here is running thermo's can you let me know if theyre working any good. i still like the idea of this setup and have seen several track and drift cars running a similar setup. i am currently working on some ideas to try and reduce heat soak into the intercooler. heres an updated pic

[bcozican]

i ran very similar setup to achieve the short piping theory in my sr20det s13, though put the cooler other side of the fence

its only another 1" of piping but reduces heat soak a heap by more flow etc

but even then still had heat probs

[juggernaut1]

Here is another option.

Basically the intercooler is in the typical location, however the piping enters up the top and at the back of the cooler. Your reduce your piping length and reduce heatsoak. However, it nessecitates cutting the body work on each side of the radiator for the pipe work. This setup is made by Full-Race (home of the twin scroll specialists) in the US.

[R31Nismoid]

^^ mine is similar in thought, the piping goes under/behind the headlight rather than right around either side, very short

I see 69-70 degree temp on a 25 degree day with a bit of a poke

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/co...image63198.html

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/co...image63195.html

[funky monkey]

ok thanks for all the suggestions guys. i am currently working on moving the intercooler slightly forward and the radiator about 2 inches back ill let you know how this works out

[Beer Baron]

^^ mine is similar in thought, the piping goes under/behind the headlight rather than right around either side, very short

I see 69-70 degree temp on a 25 degree day with a bit of a poke

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/co...image63198.html

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/co...image63195.html

nismoid. with your set-up why does the pipe turn 180 degrees, then airflow needs to turn 90 degrees again inside the cooler. you could have just had it go straight into the side of the cooler instead of making it curve back on itself and come into the front of the cooler and then it's hitting the tank at right angles instead of straight in. possibly not the best plan. the pipe run is a good idea though, but the entry to the intercooler is weird. way harder than it had to be...

in fact doing it that way would have saved more piping length too and got rid of a few bends.

I would just do it like this:

[R31Nismoid]

yeah i know.

Its hard to see from the pics, but the end tank is curved and the exit point you show is the skinniest part of the end tank... was far too hard to get it to be done the other way

would have required new end tanks etc etc.

Its a replacement core for a GTS-R (ARC) so i didnt wanna butcher it too much incase i sell or something later on.

Im thinking of going a one-off custom one at some point, but it'll have to do for now!

[DCIEVE]

I have twin spal thermo's on my rb26 with a thick 57mm koyo radiator and dont have any issues. The weekend we got it running it was straight to a local car show where it cruised around at speeds lower than 20km'h in 35-40deg heat with regular burnouts, sitting in lines for up to an hour idling etc. According to the ecu water temps never went above 87degC. The previous year with a clutch fan and stock radiator temps were only a few deg lower (obv at low speeds the thinner radiator performed better, and during burnouts the clutch fan would have been pulling more air but overall there wasnt a great deal of difference).

[funky monkey]

interesting. hey does anyone have pics/info of the autosalon s15 drift car im fairly sure it used a similar setup with twin spal fans aswell

[funky monkey]

yes im bringing this post back to life to say that i am now looking at a boot mounted radiator setup not unlike the team orange drift cars or garage sauras gold r32 GTR i think this setup will provide a solution to al the previously mentioned problems with my original design. Before you all tell me how complex this is to do please keep in mind i am well aware of this and have the necessary equiptment and skills to complete such a modification. once again any coments or constructive critisism would be much appreciated