Is My Car Hydrolocked?

[The Dan]

I'll back my arteisan boar against your hydraulic ram.

Your Boar has nothing against my Ram. My Ram has trained with the best Buddhist Monkeys for decades

[nizmo_freek]

Have just checked the afm wiring at it dosent look like there is any problems there, all the joints are still holding together nice and strong and nothing has broken, i took a pic of the sheilded wire that i was talking about before, it is actually 2 wires that are inside the sheilding, not sure if i have set the sheilded wire up correctly as i cant remember how it was setup when it was untouched, if i havent connected that up correctly could this be causing my problems, i though the sheilding was there to stop interferance or something, would it really matter that much?

Also just checked the cars voltage, hooked up a mulitmeter to the termials in the fuel box in the engine bay, was 12.4v with the keys off and about 11.8v with the keys on acc wth the fuel pump pressurising the rail, couldnt check the volts while the car was running as i had the afm off, but thats sounds about right to me?

Sorry for the crap pic, and i also had tape around each connection aswell, but i removed it to check them, you can see the sheilded wire is covering the blue/white and blue/orange wires.

Edited October 26, 2008 by nizmo_freek

[toffy]

sounds like your car is in limp mode to me , check you didn't bump your water temp sensor wires while you were pulling your fuel rail out

[nizmo_freek]

sounds like your car is in limp mode to me , check you didn't bump your water temp sensor wires while you were pulling your fuel rail out

Ive taken those water temp sensors off plenty of times and it hasnt seemed to bother them, but i will check them anyway, might try and reset the ecu today and see what happens, dont think it will change anything though

Cheers

[Guilt-Toy]

did you buy new o-rings?

[gotRICE?]

Sup man,

So i took the plastic off for ya on my stock, unmolested AFM wiring.

Decided to see what the black tape was covering.. and oddly enough (as i dont know if its an OEM thing for everyone) under the tape, sticking out of the white shield is some exposed wire. Im not sure wether it does anything or is connected at the other end, but my guess is that it is part of the shielding? Anyone know?

Let me know if you need anything else.

Edited October 27, 2008 by gotRICE?

[nizmo_freek]

^^^ cheers for the pics man

Right, i think were finally getting somewhere!

Just went to start the car and it turn overs the revs get to about 200rpm then it just dies/stalls

So i unplugged the air flow meter and went to start the car again, it started perfectly and the idle was nice and stable, plugged the afm back in and it wouldnt start again.

So im guessing that there is either a problem with my wiring (dont think so as it all looks fine to me) or my air flow meter has deceided to die, that would explain the surgyness.

Anyone had any similar problems?, and is there anyway i can test my air flow meter to see if its really is dead or not? i might take the top off it and check inside, maybe one of the solders has gone dry and isnt making contact 100%.

[Beer Baron]

yep it sounds to me like AFM is history. if you can borrow a known good one and see how it goes.

[MBS206]

I don't even know what you are but I can see you must be equally as thick. Anyone who knows what they are doing knows not to solder ECU wires. You are supposed to use proper terminal crimps because soldering the wire makes it brittle and it can break.

And BTW, Both Hydraulic and Hydro are based from the same Greek and Latin words which mean water but because we don't speak either of these languages, the base root of the word has evolved to mean 'liquid'

So Hydraulic Lock is the correct term for use in that situation

Hydro, by the English dictionary, refers solely, to water.

Hydraulic, refers to fluid, oil, water, what ever, just as a fluid.

Hence, when the original question was "Is my car hydro locked" the answer is, NO. There is no water in the cylinder, to HYDRO lock it. There may be some other fluid, Hydraulic locking it, by the car is not HYDRO locked...

It was a bit of a tongue in cheek remark using the play on words to get people to think, you sir, seemed to have taken it quite too seriously.

Oh, as to background, mechx engineering, doing lots of work with Computers and eletrical/electronics in industry... You'll find crimps are alot worse at making good connections then a solidly solidered joint.

[gotRICE?]

Im also lead to believe that soldering ECU wires isnt good because the loom flexes and moves a bit, and the solder can crack.

But if you listend to all the things people say "might" happen, noone would do anything.

Back to the topic at hand....

If you havnt sorted the problem out by Friday the 7th, i will be heading your way for a stag party for the weekend. So i will bring you my AFM. Just let me know if you need it.

[femno]

^ well put.

Give up elite32 youre no help to anyone and always wrong LOL.

Id hazard a guess and say the silver wire inside the shielding is for axial strength of the wire, as well as protection from sharp objects, as both 12V and Ground wires run through the shielded section, if you got rid of it it wouldnt affect anything.

[666DAN]

You're right the shielding isn't that necessary, it’s only there to prevent induced voltages that could be picked up by the ECU and wrongly interpreted. The wiring is normally braided as well to counteract any induced voltages that do occur. I’ve never seen anything remotely big enough to give a false signal.

You can’t beat soldering, crimps are extremely bad practice. The copper wire is more than malleable enough to cope with stress/heat, as is the solder.

[nizmo_freek]

Have just removed the afm and resolderd some of the joints in there, on of the pins looked a little bit loose, like the solder had crack, couldnt tell for sure though, so have put some extra solder on the pins , will leave the afm overnight to let the silicon around the top dry and will give it a go tomorow, if that dosent fix it then i will either by a 2nd hand afm or borrow someone elses.

Also checked all my wiring before with a test light to check for current and everything is connected up fine.

Cheers for all the helpfull replys, hopefully this fixes it so i can get it sold a buy a gtr

[FineLine]

^ well put.

Give up elite32 youre no help to anyone and always wrong LOL.

Must be an awful lot of cars running around here that are wrong. The Jolly green giant (elite 32) keeps half of sauq skylines on the road and gives advice to the other half. Supplies us with parts at prices that make the trader section laughable, Goes out of his way to help us out in a bind and charges about half per hour of what most others charge.

I love it when people are that wrong.

[femno]

could be.

but theres a difference between working for nothing and selling stuff for cheap, and giving people incorrect and misleading info, and then attacking those who challenge and being a REAL smartarse about it...but thats all for another day, were here to get this guys car going remember?

[Strik3r]

Hydrolock (short for either hydraulic lock or hydrostatic lock) is a condition of an internal combustion engine in which an incompressible liquid has been introduced into its cylinder(s), resulting in the immobilization of the engine's pistons.

It is commonly water, but can be caused by other things like dan said.

[nizmo_freek]

Have just reinstalled the "re-solderd" afm and absolutly no difference at all, the car will turn over and rev to about 200rpm for not even 1second then will just die, unplugg the afm and its starts 100% perfectly.

Either my soldering job didnt do sweet F..k all, or there is a problem somewhere else, so have just bought a 2nd hand afm to try out, if that dosent work then it will be off to nissan to see if they can find the problem.

Does anyone know how i can see if there are any error codes showing up? wouldnt mind having a look just to see if it shows up as a faulty afm.

Cheers

Edited October 29, 2008 by nizmo_freek

[The Dan]

^ well put.

Give up elite32 youre no help to anyone and always wrong LOL.

Id hazard a guess and say the silver wire inside the shielding is for axial strength of the wire, as well as protection from sharp objects, as both 12V and Ground wires run through the shielded section, if you got rid of it it wouldnt affect anything.

The shielding is not for axial strength or to protect from sharp objects. Did you just make that up?

You're right the shielding isn't that necessary, it’s only there to prevent induced voltages that could be picked up by the ECU and wrongly interpreted. The wiring is normally braided as well to counteract any induced voltages that do occur. I’ve never seen anything remotely big enough to give a false signal.

You can’t beat soldering, crimps are extremely bad practice. The copper wire is more than malleable enough to cope with stress/heat, as is the solder.

You are correct about the induced voltages but the shielding is necessary. The interference from the coil packs and injectors is enough to disrupt the voltage signal from the AFM. On a sensor where 0.01V will change the tune position on the map, I'd say it is an absolute necessity to have the shilding in place.

If the crimps are bad practice, you had better tell Nissan, Toyota and Mazda, not to mention Motec and all the V8 supercar teams. Crimps are the only way you should join wires on an ECU. The copper wire might be malleable enough but the solder definately is not. That is where the problem is. The resin in the solder also makes the wire brittle. The solder cracks under vibration and if you solder the wire 'properly' it most often cracks beneath the insulation and you'll spend a month trying to find a break in the wire or an inconsistent signal every time the wind blows.

Have just removed the afm and resolderd some of the joints in there, on of the pins looked a little bit loose, like the solder had crack, couldnt tell for sure though, so have put some extra solder on the pins , will leave the afm overnight to let the silicon around the top dry and will give it a go tomorow, if that dosent fix it then i will either by a 2nd hand afm or borrow someone elses.

Also checked all my wiring before with a test light to check for current and everything is connected up fine.

Cheers for all the helpfull replys, hopefully this fixes it so i can get it sold a buy a gtr

Did you use a 12V test light or a LED test light? The LED test light will give inaccurate readings as they will light up on 0.2V. What is the signal voltage you are getting while the ign is on but the car is not running? Then get someone to crank it and test the voltage then as well. It should have approx 0.5V while ign on and 1V while cranking. Use a multimeter to do this.

could be.

but theres a difference between working for nothing and selling stuff for cheap, and giving people incorrect and misleading info, and then attacking those who challenge and being a REAL smartarse about it...but thats all for another day, were here to get this guys car going remember?

I haven't misled anyone. You're a nasty chap aren't you.

Have just reinstalled the "re-solderd" afm and absolutly no difference at all, the car will turn over and rev to about 200rpm for not even 1second then will just die, unplugg the afm and its starts 100% perfectly.

Either my soldering job didnt do sweet F..k all, or there is a problem somewhere else, so have just bought a 2nd hand afm to try out, if that dosent work then it will be off to nissan to see if they can find the problem.

Does anyone know how i can see if there are any error codes showing up? wouldnt mind having a look just to see if it shows up as a faulty afm.

Cheers

You may have the error code window on the back of the ECU or you can join two wires on the diagnostic connector. I forget which ones but they will flash error codes via the engine check light on your dash.

I hope it all works out for you.

[666DAN]

You are correct about the induced voltages but the shielding is necessary. The interference from the coil packs and injectors is enough to disrupt the voltage signal from the AFM. On a sensor where 0.01V will change the tune position on the map, I'd say it is an absolute necessity to have the shilding in place.

If the crimps are bad practice, you had better tell Nissan, Toyota and Mazda, not to mention Motec and all the V8 supercar teams. Crimps are the only way you should join wires on an ECU. The copper wire might be malleable enough but the solder definately is not. That is where the problem is. The resin in the solder also makes the wire brittle. The solder cracks under vibration and if you solder the wire 'properly' it most often cracks beneath the insulation and you'll spend a month trying to find a break in the wire or an inconsistent signal every time the wind blows.

If a 0.01v fluctuation is enough to throw a map out that is scaled accross 5.00v then it's a crap ECU or a shit tune...just think about the resolution of most maps and you'll agree your 0.01v comment is wrongtastic.

I don't know what type of solder your using or if your techniquie is bad but solder doesn't contain *any* resin once it is heated and has flowed, the resin is purely there to melt and provide a flux for the solder to adhere to the wire...that's how it works. No amount of vibration will crack a decent soldered joint that has metallurgically bonded. Dry joints *will* crack, and that's the biggest cause of electrical malfunction (once again poor technique) Tin/lead is one of the most malleable compounds on the planet.

A proper soldered connection should have sufficient heat, be fluxed properly and the end product should show complete adsorption of the solder to the surface, no grey or dull appearence, a nice shiny clean joint which will never crack.

You have looked inside an ECU haven't you, they use copious amounts of solder on every joint and connection, no crimps to be seen. Crimps are only used as they can be quickly disconnected for replacing parts (ie the main ECU plug) or diagnosis...that's why they're used convenience, not because some old wives soldering failed.

If anything I've only ever seen "that ellusive connection" with crimps poorly contacting, they're the ones where you shake a loom and things work on and off.

[Adriano]

Sorry dan i will have to disagree with you on those two, .01v will certainly be of concern, due to the exponential voltage/airflow curve of the afm, at low airflows the AFM is very sensitive. All factory AFM's and CAS's that i have seen have shielded wiring to combat electrical "noise". As for wiring the issue isnt so much with the sloder, its the process of slodering that work hardens/heat treats the copper wiring adjacent to the solder, similar to why metal often breaks right next to a weld. I like to use double crimp terminals and add a small mount of solder at the tip of the wire, therefore the "heat treated" wire is secured by the second crimp. anyhow i think we are getting a bit OT