Question For The Efi Guru's Out There. Aftermarket Management

[GTRNUR]

Hi all,

Its a long shot question but I figure there are a few EFI specialists on here that mess around with more than just a power fc.

Im tring to find a reluctor sensor that I can use for a custom EFI installation. I need to be able to mount the sensor through the front of an engine case so it can trigger from trigger points on the front of the camshaft gear. It also needs to seal the hole that it will go through, so some sort of bolt through shape like a bolt, or I could cut a thread into the front of the engine block and screw the sensor in perhaps.

The sensor needs to be able to tolerate oil and engine temps up to 130 degrees or so at a maximum. I havent had any luck locating anything so far.

If not an actual engine position sensor I was also thinking of ABS sensors from some make or model of car would also probably be compatible.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

Cheers,

Ian

[Swiper the Fox]

  Vspec R33 said:

Hi all,

Its a long shot question but I figure there are a few EFI specialists on here that mess around with more than just a power fc.

Im tring to find a reluctor sensor that I can use for a custom EFI installation. I need to be able to mount the sensor through the front of an engine case so it can trigger from trigger points on the front of the camshaft gear. It also needs to seal the hole that it will go through, so some sort of bolt through shape like a bolt, or I could cut a thread into the front of the engine block and screw the sensor in perhaps.

The sensor needs to be able to tolerate oil and engine temps up to 130 degrees or so at a maximum. I havent had any luck locating anything so far.

If not an actual engine position sensor I was also thinking of ABS sensors from some make or model of car would also probably be compatible.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

Cheers,

Ian

Use a MoTeC one...ill get you a part number tomm.

[GTRNUR]

Is the sensor your thinking of the first one on the list on the motec sensor page. (below) Its exactly the sort of thing the sensor needs to be physically to fit and mount properly, but its hall effect not reluctor. The engine runs a closed dry sump system so the sensor has to seal to the case properly.

http://motec.com.au/sensors/crankcamspeed/

Ive been trying to get a data sheet on this sensor but havent had any luck so far. My concern is if it can handle the heat for a long period of time considering the oil bath it will be getting.

[The Dan]

Have you considered using the GT101 hall effect sensor with an external chopper disc running behind the crank timing sprocket? This is probably the most effective way to setup something like you are talking about. Has been done many many times before and is really quite simple to do.

[Chris Wilson]

Motec now have a forum monitored by Motec Australia staff, no doubt someone there can answer your question:

http://www.motec.com.au/forum/

Please post up any info here, this interests me as well. Thanks and good luck.

[666DAN]

Will this one do? ebay Item number: 310096063652

[GTRNUR]

  3lit3 32 said:

Have you considered using the GT101 hall effect sensor with an external chopper disc running behind the crank timing sprocket? This is probably the most effective way to setup something like you are talking about. Has been done many many times before and is really quite simple to do.

Crank triggering wont allow me to run sequential injection though, which is needed due to the size of the injectors on the engine. It wound end up with low end miss fires and a crap idle AFR. Its got to be cam based triggering.

  Chris Wilson said:

Motec now have a forum monitored by Motec Australia staff, no doubt someone there can answer your question:

http://www.motec.com.au/forum/

Please post up any info here, this interests me as well. Thanks and good luck.

Yep i've already posted on their forum, and am waiting on a reply. I'll let you know how it goes.

  666DAN said:

Will this one do? ebay Item number: 310096063652

Electrically speaking it probably would, but the wires coming out of the sensor dont look very industrial. Most automotoive sensors are a lot more ruggard with the wiring, The risk of breaking the wire off at the top of the sensor is a little high.

[666DAN]

Just put you own wires on and seal it with epoxy glue over the join, it'll never break

[The Dan]

  Vspec R33 said:

Crank triggering wont allow me to run sequential injection though, which is needed due to the size of the injectors on the engine. It wound end up with low end miss fires and a crap idle AFR. Its got to be cam based triggering.

Then put in on the cam as well. What system are you using for management?

[GTRNUR]

  3lit3 32 said:

Then put in on the cam as well. What system are you using for management?

V500 wolf. Your meaning running a sync and reference setup i presume? Yes thats possible but it still means putting a sensor through the front of the block to trigger from the camshaft gear. (single camshaft pushrod engine). So im still stuck with a need for a reliable at 100+ degree temp sensor.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Vspec R33

[blind_elk]

Wolf will have an appropriate sensor setup to work for you. Talk to Robbie there.

[GTRNUR]

  blind_elk said:

Wolf will have an appropriate sensor setup to work for you. Talk to Robbie there.

Already have, and he's chasing the datasheet from the manufacturer for their hall sensor too. Still no luck in hearing from them yet though.

[Adriano]

Ideally you would have two sensors, one on the crank and one on the cam. The crank sensor dictates the injector and ignition timing, and the cam sensor seta the sequence, this way the movement stops the timing jumping around with the timing chain.

[GTRNUR]

  Adriano said:

Ideally you would have two sensors, one on the crank and one on the cam. The crank sensor dictates the injector and ignition timing, and the cam sensor seta the sequence, this way the movement stops the timing jumping around with the timing chain.

True but the cam in this engine is gear driven. Lash would be about 2-3 thou so barely worth mentioning as far as an effect on drifting igniton timing.

I was going to use the dual pulse method as it can be done on the cam gear with just one sensor, and it gives me the full sequential operation i need.

[RRob]

What engine is it for?

Cant't you use the standard distributor for sync purposes.

Then just use a crank trigger.

[GTRNUR]

The distributor is being removed from this engine to make more engine bay space. There will be a dry sump pump mounted where the distributor normally is. Its a VW horizontally opposed 4 cylinder engine.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Vspec R33

[rob82]

  Vspec R33 said:

True but the cam in this engine is gear driven. Lash would be about 2-3 thou so barely worth mentioning as far as an effect on drifting igniton timing.

I was going to use the dual pulse method as it can be done on the cam gear with just one sensor, and it gives me the full sequential operation i need.

The cam sensor isn't used in ignition firing events or injection timing events - in most high end ecu's so if the sync drifts a bit its no big deal. Its usually only used for the initial sync.

[GTRNUR]

  rob82 said:

The cam sensor isn't used in ignition firing events or injection timing events - in most high end ecu's so if the sync drifts a bit its no big deal. Its usually only used for the initial sync.

This is an entirely custom application with 4 points at 60 degrees BTDC for each cylinder, and 1 ref at 50 degrees BTDC cylinder 1. This is called dual pulse triggering in the case of the Wolf ecu. Yes its got nothing directly to do with injection or ignition, its all sensing crank position and ECU timing. The last time did this kind of installation I used an optic sensor in the distributor with 5 slots cut in it as described, but no distributor this some, ergo triggering directly from the camshaft drive gear.