Supra Vs Gtr On Fuel Economy

[hrd-hr30]

I had an R32 GTR with Mines ECU (too rich, but cool flame-outs), HKS exhaust and pods. It used to get about 14l/100km or about 450km to a tank which would take around 65l to fill. Would no doubt be better economy with a better tune.

My current JZA80 Supra twin turbo is far better on fuel. about 12l/100km around town and under 10l/100km on the highway! Typically around town I get about 550km to a tank which again is around 65l. I run the Supra in TTC mode (turbos in parellel not sequential) and it has a Jasma exhaust and a pod.

I don't really know which I prefer. I think the GTR had a little more power, but I often ran it at 0.9bar. Supra probably handles a little better (both had coilovers), but the GTR was no slouch in the corners either. I think slow corners the GTR would have the edge thanks to its better traction out of the corners, but fast flowing high speed stuff like Lakeside I think the Supra is better (shame I never got a lap time for the GTR there!). The Supra's brakes are better, no question. Both my GTR and Supra have the earlier smaller brakes, and even though the Supra just has 2 piston sliding calipers up front compared to the GTRs Sumitomo 4 spots, the Supra stops harder and doesn't fade like the GTR did. When you turn up to a track day or sprint event, people just expect the GTR to be fast. The Supra is different. People seem surprised to see it do good times. If I could I'd have both of them!

[RyleyMA61]

I had an R32 GTR with Mines ECU (too rich, but cool flame-outs), HKS exhaust and pods. It used to get about 14l/100km or about 450km to a tank which would take around 65l to fill. Would no doubt be better economy with a better tune.

My current JZA80 Supra twin turbo is far better on fuel. about 12l/100km around town and under 10l/100km on the highway! Typically around town I get about 550km to a tank which again is around 65l. I run the Supra in TTC mode (turbos in parellel not sequential) and it has a Jasma exhaust and a pod.

I don't really know which I prefer. I think the GTR had a little more power, but I often ran it at 0.9bar. Supra probably handles a little better (both had coilovers), but the GTR was no slouch in the corners either. I think slow corners the GTR would have the edge thanks to its better traction out of the corners, but fast flowing high speed stuff like Lakeside I think the Supra is better (shame I never got a lap time for the GTR there!). The Supra's brakes are better, no question. Both my GTR and Supra have the earlier smaller brakes, and even though the Supra just has 2 piston sliding calipers up front compared to the GTRs Sumitomo 4 spots, the Supra stops harder and doesn't fade like the GTR did. When you turn up to a track day or sprint event, people just expect the GTR to be fast. The Supra is different. People seem surprised to see it do good times. If I could I'd have both of them!

great read, so refreshing to read something free from bias!

just wondering what made you run the turbos in parallel- from what i've read a lot of people prefer it sequential! interested to see what you think

i wish my supra had the manic howl of the rb26 it sounds good, just not quite as insane.

[Shidan]

I had an R32 GTR with Mines ECU (too rich, but cool flame-outs), HKS exhaust and pods. It used to get about 14l/100km or about 450km to a tank which would take around 65l to fill. Would no doubt be better economy with a better tune.

My current JZA80 Supra twin turbo is far better on fuel. about 12l/100km around town and under 10l/100km on the highway! Typically around town I get about 550km to a tank which again is around 65l. I run the Supra in TTC mode (turbos in parellel not sequential) and it has a Jasma exhaust and a pod.

I don't really know which I prefer. I think the GTR had a little more power, but I often ran it at 0.9bar. Supra probably handles a little better (both had coilovers), but the GTR was no slouch in the corners either. I think slow corners the GTR would have the edge thanks to its better traction out of the corners, but fast flowing high speed stuff like Lakeside I think the Supra is better (shame I never got a lap time for the GTR there!). The Supra's brakes are better, no question. Both my GTR and Supra have the earlier smaller brakes, and even though the Supra just has 2 piston sliding calipers up front compared to the GTRs Sumitomo 4 spots, the Supra stops harder and doesn't fade like the GTR did. When you turn up to a track day or sprint event, people just expect the GTR to be fast. The Supra is different. People seem surprised to see it do good times. If I could I'd have both of them!

Haha, thats the best reply i've ever gotten my whole life. I kept asking questions in my head and straight after you answered it:P

I always imagined gtr would be better racer, even in braking. Supra's just got a huge ass and bad traction. If i want a really fast car id like one that i can go fast in straights cause id feel bad taking my loved car to the track Just a every now and then drag.

Do you reckon maybe the amazingness of GTR's are abit exadurated?

Could your supra keep up in a straight line?

[N1GTR]

I had an R32 GTR with Mines ECU (too rich, but cool flame-outs), HKS exhaust and pods. It used to get about 14l/100km or about 450km to a tank which would take around 65l to fill. Would no doubt be better economy with a better tune.

My current JZA80 Supra twin turbo is far better on fuel. about 12l/100km around town and under 10l/100km on the highway! Typically around town I get about 550km to a tank which again is around 65l. I run the Supra in TTC mode (turbos in parellel not sequential) and it has a Jasma exhaust and a pod.

I don't really know which I prefer. I think the GTR had a little more power, but I often ran it at 0.9bar. Supra probably handles a little better (both had coilovers), but the GTR was no slouch in the corners either. I think slow corners the GTR would have the edge thanks to its better traction out of the corners, but fast flowing high speed stuff like Lakeside I think the Supra is better (shame I never got a lap time for the GTR there!). The Supra's brakes are better, no question. Both my GTR and Supra have the earlier smaller brakes, and even though the Supra just has 2 piston sliding calipers up front compared to the GTRs Sumitomo 4 spots, the Supra stops harder and doesn't fade like the GTR did. When you turn up to a track day or sprint event, people just expect the GTR to be fast. The Supra is different. People seem surprised to see it do good times. If I could I'd have both of them!

Id agree with most of that, but the supra stopping harder? My jza80 definatly doesnt stop as well as the GTR, mind you its got the 2/1 setup which wouldnt help it.

People being suprised? Fu(k yes, no one thinks they're quick, but on the skidpan they can be quite good Im on my 2nd diff though from skidpan fun

[Shidan]

hey buddy i've got an ma61 supra (mk II) with a 7mgte turbo. good fun! just blew a headgasket so gotta fix that.

turns out the ma70/jza70/ga70 (mk III) are the heavy bastards. nearly pushing 1700kg some of them. i know they went to ridiculous lengths with the jza80 (mk 4) to save weight- hollow carpets and crazy stuff like that. they do look heavy, and everyone seems to think they weigh a lot but really they aren't too bad!

Serious?! 1700 is a lot! haha

I had no idea,

Sorry about your headgasket!

[hrd-hr30]

great read, so refreshing to read something free from bias!

just wondering what made you run the turbos in parallel- from what i've read a lot of people prefer it sequential! interested to see what you think

i wish my supra had the manic howl of the rb26 it sounds good, just not quite as insane.

ah yeah, that's one thing I forgot. The RB26 sound at up to 9000rpm (Mines ECU rev limit) is just fantastic! 2JZ can't compete with the sound of an RB26!

I took it to Wakefield Park and QLD Raceway in sequential mode and it was horrible. The second turbo doesn't really kick in till 4-4500rpm and the redline is at 6800rpm but really you need to shift before 6500rpm. There were a couple of corners on each track where you fall below the second turbo and you just have no power at all and hoping the guy behind you doesn't run into you on the exit of the corner! Then you get back to 4500 and it comes on with a sudden rush and if you're still exiting the corner then all you get is hopeless wheelspin. Its just nasty.

In TTC mode you make full boost by ~3000rpm and its a nice linear power delivery. You pick up alot of power and torque between 3000 and 4500rpm in TTC mode. So you have the grunt to drive out of the apexes and have control over the amount of power you're putting to the rear. Just like a proper car!

I think the guys who like sequential just drive on the road and like that instant off idle torque from the single turbo coming on boost straight away. But I prefer TTC even on the road. Better fuel economy if you're just driving around off boost, and on the highway in particular. The 3000cc engine still has plenty of torque for driving around and if you want to go fast, all you have to do is change down a gear.

TTC is much gentler on the 2nd turbo too.

Haha, thats the best reply i've ever gotten my whole life. I kept asking questions in my head and straight after you answered it:P

I always imagined gtr would be better racer, even in braking. Supra's just got a huge ass and bad traction. If i want a really fast car id like one that i can go fast in straights cause id feel bad taking my loved car to the track Just a every now and then drag.

Do you reckon maybe the amazingness of GTR's are abit exadurated?

Could your supra keep up in a straight line?

The Supra definitely has a better high speed balance. They've got pretty good traction - mines at a sensible ride height (600mm from lower edge of 18" rim) and good quality 275/35 tyres on the back. But you can't expect to just be able mash the throttle open in 3rd gear corners on the track in a powerful rwd car. They have to be driven. I'm pretty much always a little sideways out of corners, but that's just the way I drive...

btw, drags are harder on a car's driveline (clutch, box, diff and axles) than circuit. Circuit is hardest on brakes and tyres. As long as everything is in good condition and you don't rush the gear changes, circuit isn't going to hurt your car.

Id agree with most of that, but the supra stopping harder? My jza80 definatly doesnt stop as well as the GTR, mind you its got the 2/1 setup which wouldnt help it.

People being suprised? Fu(k yes, no one thinks they're quick, but on the skidpan they can be quite good Im on my 2nd diff though from skidpan fun

yep, my supra's 2/1 brakes definitley stop better than the R32 GTR's Sumitomo 4/2 brakes did. I've still got normal road pads and fluid in the supra and no brake fade in 5 laps of QR or Lakeside. The GTR would fade after 2 laps at QR on normal pads and fluid!

I think the Supra has a bit of an image problem wrt to performance thanks to all the riced up veilsided P plate NA auto things out there. I don't think they should have made a NA Supra. It waters down the perception of the model too much. But I do like the element of Surprise! And you don't get many other Supras at track days. Actually I don't think I've seen any other Supra at any event I've done in it yet!

I'm going to take the Supra over a weighbridge on the weekend to see what it weighs. Everyone thinks they're stupidly heavy (like 1600-1700kg), but I'm not so sure about that.

And I'm going to go back to QR in 2 weeks time to see how it goes compared to the GTR now. GTR on Federal tyres did 1:01.54. Supra in horrible TTC mode did 1:03.9, but its much better now in terms of handling and power delivery. I think it wil be very close.

[RyleyMA61]

ah yeah, that's one thing I forgot. The RB26 sound at up to 9000rpm (Mines ECU rev limit) is just fantastic! 2JZ can't compete with the sound of an RB26!

I took it to Wakefield Park and QLD Raceway in sequential mode and it was horrible. The second turbo doesn't really kick in till 4-4500rpm and the redline is at 6800rpm but really you need to shift before 6500rpm. There were a couple of corners on each track where you fall below the second turbo and you just have no power at all and hoping the guy behind you doesn't run into you on the exit of the corner! Then you get back to 4500 and it comes on with a sudden rush and if you're still exiting the corner then all you get is hopeless wheelspin. Its just nasty.

In TTC mode you make full boost by ~3000rpm and its a nice linear power delivery. You pick up alot of power and torque between 3000 and 4500rpm in TTC mode. So you have the grunt to drive out of the apexes and have control over the amount of power you're putting to the rear. Just like a proper car!

I think the guys who like sequential just drive on the road and like that instant off idle torque from the single turbo coming on boost straight away. But I prefer TTC even on the road. Better fuel economy if you're just driving around off boost, and on the highway in particular. The 3000cc engine still has plenty of torque for driving around and if you want to go fast, all you have to do is change down a gear.

TTC is much gentler on the 2nd turbo too.

The Supra definitely has a better high speed balance. They've got pretty good traction - mines at a sensible ride height (600mm from lower edge of 18" rim) and good quality 275/35 tyres on the back. But you can't expect to just be able mash the throttle open in 3rd gear corners on the track in a powerful rwd car. They have to be driven. I'm pretty much always a little sideways out of corners, but that's just the way I drive...

btw, drags are harder on a car's driveline (clutch, box, diff and axles) than circuit. Circuit is hardest on brakes and tyres. As long as everything is in good condition and you don't rush the gear changes, circuit isn't going to hurt your car.

yep, my supra's 2/1 brakes definitley stop better than the R32 GTR's Sumitomo 4/2 brakes did. I've still got normal road pads and fluid in the supra and no brake fade in 5 laps of QR or Lakeside. The GTR would fade after 2 laps at QR on normal pads and fluid!

I think the Supra has a bit of an image problem wrt to performance thanks to all the riced up veilsided P plate NA auto things out there. I don't think they should have made a NA Supra. It waters down the perception of the model too much. But I do like the element of Surprise! And you don't get many other Supras at track days. Actually I don't think I've seen any other Supra at any event I've done in it yet!

I'm going to take the Supra over a weighbridge on the weekend to see what it weighs. Everyone thinks they're stupidly heavy (like 1600-1700kg), but I'm not so sure about that.

And I'm going to go back to QR in 2 weeks time to see how it goes compared to the GTR now. GTR on Federal tyres did 1:01.54. Supra in horrible TTC mode did 1:03.9, but its much better now in terms of handling and power delivery. I think it wil be very close.

sounds great!

i have a mate with a v161 sz-r, on the corner weight scaling with 19s or something, fuel, was low 1400kg. so they are certainly not stupidly heavy!

as well as the fat/heavy/slow image problem, the bad traction is another! they supra has a fantastic suspension design, it's just the fact that when you start cranking out a shitload of torque, you'll fry the rear tyres in any RWD car! my supra is only 230rwkw and with the semi-trailing arm's shocking camber change under squat frying tyres is very easy! bring on the finess of throttle control i say

anywhere we can read about both your R32 and Supra mate? they both sound great, keen to see some pics too!

ps.- as for the 2jz, you should hear norbie's with 272deg. cams and a big single... sounds very very angry

shidan- as with everything, everyone exagerates the GTR awesomeness and disadvantages! just like the supra's weight is exagerated, and the 7MGTE's shitness the GTR and supra are both awesome cars... people just forget that there are always better cars.

[Shidan]

I though tracks were really hard on the car. I've never heard the GTR sound in real life, so i can't compare to supra but supra does sound really mean. Would be cool to hear what a GTR sounds like.

I just sold my supra by the way, the guy is picked it up next week:(

It's actually more sad than i expected.

When i'm older, the plan is to ither get r34 gtr, TT supra a fair bit of mods or a rx7 and do a 2jz conversation. So i have a long time to think about it till i get the money.

My fav set up on supra is this guys,

http://www.supraforums.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=44772

It's simple, powerful and looks great.

But he'll sell it much sooner than i can afford it:) I'm not going to go cheap though, so i'm willing to spend a fair bit.

What do you guys reckon?

Edited November 15, 2008 by Shidan

[Dandoon130390]

I though tracks were really hard on the car. I've never heard the GTR sound in real life, so i can't compare to supra but supra does sound really mean. Would be cool to hear what a GTR sounds like.

I just sold my supra by the way, the guy is picked it up next week:(

It's actually more sad than i expected.

When i'm older, the plan is to ither get r34 gtr, TT supra a fair bit of mods or a rx7 and do a 2jz conversation. So i have a long time to think about it till i get the money.

My fav set up on supra is this guys,

http://www.supraforums.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=44772

It's simple, powerful and looks great.

But he'll sell it much sooner than i can afford it:) I'm not going to go cheap though, so i'm willing to spend a fair bit.

What do you guys reckon?

I recon you should go for it! it looks good as, and the way the people there are commenting it saying its a clean car and who ever buys it is lucky....i think it would be good. it look clean and everything.

if you go for it, good luck mate

[Smitizen]

Skyline + fuel economy = Shit

Skyline + my right foot + fuel economy = need a second job lol

Amen to that!!!!!

[limited86]

man no offence or anything but i was asking the same questions before i got my r32 gtst , untill 1 bloke i was speaking to told me this one simple answer to those type of questions. He told me if you were worried about fuel econ, replacement parts and mods then you are buying the worng car to worry about those sort of things because they are all semi high maintence.

[N1GTR]

ah yeah, that's one thing I forgot. The RB26 sound at up to 9000rpm (Mines ECU rev limit) is just fantastic! 2JZ can't compete with the sound of an RB26!

I took it to Wakefield Park and QLD Raceway in sequential mode and it was horrible. The second turbo doesn't really kick in till 4-4500rpm and the redline is at 6800rpm but really you need to shift before 6500rpm. There were a couple of corners on each track where you fall below the second turbo and you just have no power at all and hoping the guy behind you doesn't run into you on the exit of the corner! Then you get back to 4500 and it comes on with a sudden rush and if you're still exiting the corner then all you get is hopeless wheelspin. Its just nasty.

In TTC mode you make full boost by ~3000rpm and its a nice linear power delivery. You pick up alot of power and torque between 3000 and 4500rpm in TTC mode. So you have the grunt to drive out of the apexes and have control over the amount of power you're putting to the rear. Just like a proper car!

I think the guys who like sequential just drive on the road and like that instant off idle torque from the single turbo coming on boost straight away. But I prefer TTC even on the road. Better fuel economy if you're just driving around off boost, and on the highway in particular. The 3000cc engine still has plenty of torque for driving around and if you want to go fast, all you have to do is change down a gear.

TTC is much gentler on the 2nd turbo too.

The Supra definitely has a better high speed balance. They've got pretty good traction - mines at a sensible ride height (600mm from lower edge of 18" rim) and good quality 275/35 tyres on the back. But you can't expect to just be able mash the throttle open in 3rd gear corners on the track in a powerful rwd car. They have to be driven. I'm pretty much always a little sideways out of corners, but that's just the way I drive...

btw, drags are harder on a car's driveline (clutch, box, diff and axles) than circuit. Circuit is hardest on brakes and tyres. As long as everything is in good condition and you don't rush the gear changes, circuit isn't going to hurt your car.

yep, my supra's 2/1 brakes definitley stop better than the R32 GTR's Sumitomo 4/2 brakes did. I've still got normal road pads and fluid in the supra and no brake fade in 5 laps of QR or Lakeside. The GTR would fade after 2 laps at QR on normal pads and fluid!

I think the Supra has a bit of an image problem wrt to performance thanks to all the riced up veilsided P plate NA auto things out there. I don't think they should have made a NA Supra. It waters down the perception of the model too much. But I do like the element of Surprise! And you don't get many other Supras at track days. Actually I don't think I've seen any other Supra at any event I've done in it yet!

I'm going to take the Supra over a weighbridge on the weekend to see what it weighs. Everyone thinks they're stupidly heavy (like 1600-1700kg), but I'm not so sure about that.

And I'm going to go back to QR in 2 weeks time to see how it goes compared to the GTR now. GTR on Federal tyres did 1:01.54. Supra in horrible TTC mode did 1:03.9, but its much better now in terms of handling and power delivery. I think it wil be very close.

What discs and pads does your supra have? Mine have to be changed pretty soon

[hrd-hr30]

Its got Brembo replacement front rotors and TRW Lucas pads all round. The rear discs are probably still OEM.

I did go back to QR too - got a 1:01.46. So 2.5sec improvement from tyres and the change from sequential to TTC. It was a 34 degree day so it could probably go a little quicker yet in cooler conditions.