An Amicable Discussion On P Platers And The Law.

[Marco-R34GTT]

The fact that they have obtained a license in the first place shows they have (under the current system) gone through:

1) A 30 question multiple choice theory test

2) Some kind of supervised driving leading in preperation for further testing (its mentioned that 100-120 hours is something to aim for)

3) A practical driving test with a licensing examiner

4) Log book driving for 6 months with a minimum of 25 hours driving across various conditions

5) A hazard perception test

1) Crap.

2) Crap.

3) Crap.

4) Crap.

5) Crap.

Do have any idea what a prospective pilot has to go through, the kind of rigourous training and theory (not to mention cost) required to attain a pilot's license??

I'm not saying getting a car license should be anywhere nearly as difficult, or expensive. However if it was a tenth of content, difficultly, theory and expense, I'd be a happy man. THAT would make a difference..

[GODTHRILA]

1) Crap.

2) Crap.

3) Crap.

4) Crap.

5) Crap.

Do have any idea what a prospective pilot has to go through, the kind of rigourous training and theory (not to mention cost) required to attain a pilot's license??

I'm not saying getting a car license should be anywhere nearly as difficult, or expensive. However if it was a tenth of content, difficultly, theory and expense, I'd be a happy man. THAT would make a difference..

Go back and read the post again... the 5 points I made there had no link with becoming a pilot what so ever, but was indicating that P platers have just gone through 6+ months of gradual driver training.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Go back and read the post again... the 5 points I made there had no link with becoming a pilot what so ever, but was indicating that P platers have just gone through 6+ months of gradual driver training.

I know you didn't.. What I'm saying is this.

The fact that they have obtained a license in the first place shows they have (under the current system) gone through:

1) A 30 question multiple choice theory test

2) Some kind of supervised driving leading in preperation for further testing (its mentioned that 100-120 hours is something to aim for)

3) A practical driving test with a licensing examiner

4) Log book driving for 6 months with a minimum of 25 hours driving across various conditions

5) A hazard perception test

Are all crap, it is all utter bullsh*t....

What I was doing was making a comparison of what it takes for a pilot to attain their license over a person wishing to aquire their drivers license...

What percentage of people with their motor/car licenses would be in total ignorance of such things as aerodynamics? aerofluidity? body roll/load transfer? centre of gravity? vehicle dynamics? power delivery? oversteer? understeer? tyre scrubbing? aquaplaining?

Edited August 31, 2008 by Marco-R34GTT

[Mayuri Krab]

But if they made the test hard like that, then most people will fail & probably never get their drivers license.

Now the government isn't afraid of us young people complaning, coz we can't really do sh*t about it...

But whole bunch of mid aged housewives complaining, nagging & posting stories to ACA & TT is another story...

Something the government probably don't want to see so they avoid it all together & make more laws to screw us up...

[-Dukes-]

But if they made the test hard like that, then most people will fail & probably never get their drivers license.

Thats not a bad thing... There are a LOT of people who shouldn't have a license out there.

EDIT: It'd be an idea to have Driver ed in Highschools so more young people would have a chance if there was a hard driving test,

[big col]

Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege*

*only when you're young. When you're older it is obviously a right and you shouldn't need to resit driving tests to make sure you know any updated road rules, are still abiding by them and haven't developed any bad driving habits.

Sad case of youth being screwed over as the old corrupt buggers in the government need to appeal to whatever stupid, ludicrous and down right wrong stereotypes the ignorant voting masses believe are a problem that needs to be fixed at any cost... as long as it doesn't effect them in any way shape or form. That's the bottom line. people will still crash regardless of their age, people will still speed, underage drinking will continue even with stupid taxes, homes will be burgaled, drugs will continue to be abused, same shit different day and the government will continue to pass and enforce more and more ridiculous decronian laws just so they can get voted in for another term, they will never do anything substantial to fix the problem at it's core.

There's no way of changing that unless you get into the position of a state premiere yourself lol.

[s2k12]

The fact that they have obtained a license in the first place shows they have (under the current system) gone through:

1) A 30 question multiple choice theory test

2) Some kind of supervised driving leading in preperation for further testing (its mentioned that 100-120 hours is something to aim for)

3) A practical driving test with a licensing examiner

4) Log book driving for 6 months with a minimum of 25 hours driving across various conditions

5) A hazard perception test

That is a pretty intense education program... especially considering back when I got my license, all I had to do was 30 multiple choice questions for L's and then a practicle test for P's... there was no minimum requirement for supervised driving.

Think about 17y/o kids that have just spent the last 6+ months being "educated" in correct driving technique. Do you honestly think a 1-2 day course of them locking up breaks, sliding over cones, spinning through wet areas in a controlled environment is going to alter their point of view as to how "hard" they drive? The ones that do this for the right reasons are generally the ones that you don't need to worry about on the roads anyway. The others (like me many years ago) just think that a driver training course made them a better driver... more in control in out-of-control situations. Basically it has the potential to make the cocky even cockier and in effect making matter worse than improving them.

Having said that, I am all for driver training as the more time you can spend having someone show you how to handle a car, the better equipped you are should you get into trouble. I just don't see this as a solution, as driver training has been available for years and years and although not compulsory, as mentioned above, new drivers have just been through 6+ months of training so it still should be fresh in their minds what is the right thing to do.

No amount of driver training will make an idiot driver a safe driver.

I only got my P's a few months ago, it was pretty easy. I mean, yeah, I did around 25,000klms just on L's, so I did atleast double the driving most people do, but even so, I had almost no experience driving a manual and I still passed the practical. Pretty sure I only passed that based on the chat we had after the test about hooning though lol. He asked me if I had a car, said yes, he asked what type, I said 84 300zx (wasn't going to lie seeing as he could look it up if he wanted to anyway lol), he said "so a hoon car" lol. If I didn't talk my way out of that one and point out the difference between car enthusiast and hoon, I'd have failed for sure.

I somewhat agree that driver training wont reduce the arrogance of some people, but they should still be able to get themselves out of shit after they lose it.

Also, if said course was mandatory, along with a bunch of other training stuff (think about how you get licences on GT4 lol), most of the cocky little wankers wouldn't pass anyway.

[s2k12]

underage drinking will continue even with stupid taxes

Nobody believed for a second that his intentions were to reduce underage drinking though lol.

you don't see motorbike guys jumping straight onto a 1300cc hyabusa

Yeah, but they can still ride something like an Aprilia RS250 lol.

[br3ndan]

The funny thing is most of the time i am driving my skyline, i have middle aged people getting pissed of at me for going the speed limit... even when im in the left lane just cruising home from work or uni. Thes are the poeple that are driving the camry's, bmw's and other cars like that.

Then i get the same group of poeple shaking their head at me if i put my foot down a bit.

Now i got the government telling me that my little brother cant drive my v8 ute any more.. even tho its only a a slightly worked 253 and a straight 6 modern ute would have more power then it.

Then i see on the news that a p plater crashed his mummys BMW and killed his girlfriend...

Some how i dont see the government addressing the real problem? That its not the car that will cause someone to crash, its the in experience of the driver.

Ive seen my friends drive their honda's 4 bangers over the 200kmh mark. Now i know that is not safe no matter what car u do it in, but id rather be in a skyline that was built for such speeds, rather then in a family car honda accord.

Young drivers will always be cocky and crash and die. I just hope its the god dam driver that dies, not the passengers.

If u inisits on going at high speeds on public roads, do it early in the morning (2am/ 3am), on a open stretch of road, and by ur self. So when you crash (And i say when, becuase it will happen, maybe not the first time, but it WILL happen) i can laugh at you and think to my self, "That d*ckhead deserved to die" and not feel sorry for the passengers.

Edited August 31, 2008 by br3ndan

[drifitz]

What I was doing was making a comparison of what it takes for a pilot to attain their license over a person wishing to aquire their drivers license...

What percentage of people with their motor/car licenses would be in total ignorance of such things as aerodynamics? aerofluidity? body roll/load transfer? centre of gravity? vehicle dynamics? power delivery? oversteer? understeer? tyre scrubbing? aquaplaining?

I don't think you can really compare obtaining a pilots license to a drivers license. They are completely different things and require a whole new level of understanding.

As for the ignorance factor - Why would most people care about such things? The "majority" of people use their cars to get from A to B and don't really want to know. I know for one that I'd probably be the only one out of my friends who would think of such things, let alone try factor for them?

[-Dukes-]

On the cruise the other night I got a call from one of my mates. He told me that one of our mates was in an car accident he couldn't tell me much except that he was in a bad way.

This guy has had his P's for about 1 and a half years and had been driving since he was 12. But he was a show off, always speeding, at night he'd go off the road and do fishtails on the dirt, stupid shit like that. One of those idiots with a bullet proof attitude...

But we got in contact and he's fine cars a mess though... I'm just glad he didn't hurt anyone,

The car he was driving wasn't high performance it was just an old falcon,

but it's not the car, it's the person driving it...

[Marco-R34GTT]

He asked me if I had a car, said yes, he asked what type, I said 84 300zx (wasn't going to lie seeing as he could look it up if he wanted to anyway lol), he said "so a hoon car" lol. If I didn't talk my way out of that one and point out the difference between car enthusiast and hoon, I'd have failed for sure.

He had no right to make that assumption nor was he due to make such a bias and unfounded remark. Frankly, none of his bloody business...

Cop drive Commodore/Falcon... Hoon? very well may be the case, if that is how they gauge 'hoonism'...

W@nkers.

[Shaolin242]

"Its not the Ride, Its the Rider."

[Marco-R34GTT]

I don't think you can really compare obtaining a pilots license to a drivers license. They are completely different things and require a whole new level of understanding.

How many people die in car accidents compared to flying accidents? Nation wide? Pilots/drivers and passengers BOTH included...

Enough said...

A car in the hands of an idiot, no matter how lacking in power, grunts, torque, whatever, is still a weapon.. A ton and a half of metal moving at any great speed is likely to be a leathal weapon in the hands of someone that has no clue HOW it works or HOW it operates... Would you trust a bricklayer with brain surgery??? I think not... Would you like the idea of firearms in the hands of people that aren't fully aware and trained in its leathality, function and operation?? Nope once again...

Edited August 31, 2008 by Marco-R34GTT

[GODTHRILA]

How many people die in car accidents compared to flying accidents? Nation wide? Pilots/drivers and passengers BOTH included...

Enough said...

A car in the hands of an idiot, no matter how lacking in power, grunts, torque, whatever, is still a weapon.. A ton and a half of metal moving at any great speed is likely to be a leathal weapon in the hands of someone that has no clue HOW it works or HOW it operates... Would you trust a bricklayer with brain surgery??? I think not... Would you like the idea of firearms in the hands of people that aren't fully aware and trained in its leathality, function and operation?? Nope once again...

Mate I think you have gone completely off track here.

For starters pilots are obviously much more responsible than P platers, they are in constant radio check with a control tower who is monitoring them the entire time they are in the air. And when you look at the amount of cars on the roads Vs the amount of planes in the air the numbers will always be in favor of more road deaths than air crash deaths.

I think everyone in here will agree that a car in the hands of an idiot is a recipe for disaster. That goes without saying.

You can sit here posting comments about brickies carrying out brain surgery and people running around with guns, but it is of no relavence to the topic at hand.

[Slowpoke]

Ive seen my friends drive their honda's 4 bangers over the 200kmh mark. Now i know that is not safe no matter what car u do it in, but id rather be in a skyline that was built for such speeds, rather then in a family car honda accord.

Shhh... I occasionally bring my gf's accord for cruises

[bubba]

How many people die in car accidents compared to flying accidents? Nation wide? Pilots/drivers and passengers BOTH included...

Enough said...

A car in the hands of an idiot, no matter how lacking in power, grunts, torque, whatever, is still a weapon.. A ton and a half of metal moving at any great speed is likely to be a leathal weapon in the hands of someone that has no clue HOW it works or HOW it operates... Would you trust a bricklayer with brain surgery??? I think not... Would you like the idea of firearms in the hands of people that aren't fully aware and trained in its leathality, function and operation?? Nope once again...

Dude, don't even begin to bring firearms into this debate. From that statement I would say you have no clue about firearms legislation in this state and it is one of my pet hates.

There is currently NO required safety course to obtain a firearm, all you need to do is have permission from a land or club owner to shoot on their property and pass a 20 question multiple choice test.

Now lets talk about paintball markers, they consider them firearms yet the projectiles are NOT lethal, at all. The only dangerous part of paintball is the 4500psi airtanks that we "play" with. High Pressure Air is EXTREMELY dangerous and again, there are NO safety courses required NOR do the authorities provide any guidelines on dealing with HPA.

If you want to really get stuck into pilots' licenses aswell, I've been there too and I know what is involved.

If you want to bring in similar requirements as pilots for drivers, and you draw comparison to the lack of accidents in the air, then you might want to look at the rigorous maintenance schedules that are enforced by CASA.

[-Dukes-]

Not wanting to take sides in this little debate, just chucking my two cents in,

I do a bit of work for the defense department, I'm often at Pearce or Gingin airbase. I must say I've heard some pretty shocking stories about trainee pilots and pilots going solo for the first few times haha

That being said, I was told it was mostly the Singaporeans that come over to be trained that thrashed and crashed the planes. lol

For starters pilots are obviously much more responsible than P platers, they are in constant radio check with a control tower who is monitoring them the entire time they are in the air.

[bubba]

I've done my solo and I must say, to have made it that far and then do something stupid enough to crash, you'd have to be a complete dunce.

[-Dukes-]

Yeah, They try to be hero's and take off to early or land too fast,