R33 Gts4 Engine Swap To A Turbo

[DaveGTS4]

wow.. more and more 33 gts4s are popping up! good to see.

yup with a desire to turbo haha

[WYTSKY]

Okay, SOOOO much wrong in what you've posted there...

Yes, the sound is the air being chopped as it flows backwards through the turbo. NO, the turbo does NOT slow down from the air going backwards through it. It slows down as most people run the wastegate source off the intercooler piping, which, when shifting, is still seeing MASSIVE amounts of air pressure, so the wastegate stays open, and there's SFA air keeping the turbo going on the exhaust side. Mix with that a huge resistance, and the turbo slows,but now because of air going backwards through it.

If it were so bad for turbo life, would nissan release the CA18DET without a BOV from the factory? Would Porsche run the GT3 especially in races without a BOV? Nope, they wouldn't.

The BOV was introduced for emmisions reasons, on an AFM car you need it there for emmisions, and to stop the car stalling, unless you run an aftermarket ECU and can tune around this issue.

I run a TD07 with a T04R comp wheel, and T66 exhaust wheel, ZERO lag between gear changes, and I run no BOV, why? My wastegate pressure source comes off the manifold, and helps keep the turbo spooled on gear changes AND my intake pipes are already pressurised as I re-open the throttle to slam air into the motor quickly and produce a shit load of exhaust gas to provide to the turbo.

I honestly could not give a toss what you run... I simply am trying to advise hannibal to steer away from this setup... especially considering it is a non turbo engine... it might be somewhat sensitive to things like running it with no bov... and cause to have issues further down the track.

By all means you can say what you want... but from every single ligimate tuner I have been to, they DO NOT RECOMMEND running it without a bov... as well as hundreds of people on here... plus a CA18DET is not a skyline engine now is it? so it was there from factory for a reason. so one person having an alternate opinion to what most other have is not going to convince me.

I am not going to continue arguing about this on here considering hannibal is still trying to work out what to do...

good luck with your monster setup, now give hannibal some advice if your replying in his thread.

Adam

[Eug]

everyone play nice this includes you matt, this isn't the first time you've stirred a thread in this section. while i agree with some of the stuff you say at times, i do not agree with the manner you execute it.

[MBS206]

I honestly could not give a toss what you run... I simply am trying to advise hannibal to steer away from this setup... especially considering it is a non turbo engine... it might be somewhat sensitive to things like running it with no bov... and cause to have issues further down the track.

By all means you can say what you want... but from every single ligimate tuner I have been to, they DO NOT RECOMMEND running it without a bov... as well as hundreds of people on here... plus a CA18DET is not a skyline engine now is it? so it was there from factory for a reason. so one person having an alternate opinion to what most other have is not going to convince me.

I am not going to continue arguing about this on here considering hannibal is still trying to work out what to do...

good luck with your monster setup, now give hannibal some advice if your replying in his thread.

Adam

Adam: A turbo is a turbo is it not? So then, it would not matter what vehicle it was placed on, as to whether it wants a BOV, would it not?

Secondly, I took advice from a few people, including someone who purely, and solely plays with turbos all day long.

Thirdly, look at the fin setup on a turbo, it's uni directional, blow air the wrong way through it, it applies ZERO force on the turbo.

Fourthly, that was advice for Hannibal, he DOESN'T require a BOV.

Fifthly, not everyone on here claims you need a BOV

Sixthly, the only written evidence anyone can ever find, bar heresay on the fact you "need" a BOV, is written on BOV manuafacturers websites... Seems like sales propaganda to me.

Seventhly, Sorry Eug, I'm generally very short and blunt, other wise people start trying to misconstrue things.

Eighthly, look at when the BOV was introduced, and WHY... It was ONLY for emmisions... Pretty suss to me... I never knew blown turbos came under the EPA durisdiction...

Ninthly, Again, Sorry Eug.

Hannibal, you don't require a BOV, but whilst on your P's, if you have to have a turbo, run the factory BOV, with the factory air box and snorkel, the BOV is then inaudible, as is the spool up of the turbo. BUT, if I came across you some where and you bragged to me about being on your P's and driving a turbo illegally, I'd smack you so damn hard in the back of the head to try and knock some sense into you.

Driving a prohibited car, leaves you unregistered, uninsured, and unlicenced... If you hit my car... God help you, I will have my insurance company going after you for every penny you have.

It is pure IDIOCY to be driving a prohibited car, not just because you might get a fine, but because so many of the things that are put in place to help others involved in a crash (And you) are ripped out from under neath you.

So the easiest, and the best thing you should do, is not turbo your car, and do the suspension side of things. Once off your P's look back into turboing it.

Cheers Boys!

[WYTSKY]

alright matt, understand all your 1-9s... which is fine, except for 2 and 5.

2... its cool, the people you see say you dont have to have a bov, mine do... no biggy, but I think thats why we have strong opinions about what can be run comfortably...

5.. I never said everyone... just from being on these forums now for close to two years I have seen predominatly more threads about keeping factory bovs or upgrading to gtr ones.. then blocking off...

Finally.. I completly agree with everythign you said about insurance and the popo. I have already talked to him about being cop bait.

But... I dont know if this will work for you hannibal... but it did for me and we have the same car... once I turboed it, I called up justcar, talked to a nice girl, told her I turboed my car and want to cover it, she said fine, extra $50 bucks a year ontop of your third party fire+theft... I said cool and I was covered!

Cheers Matt, Eug.

Adam

[MBS206]

5.. I never said everyone... just from being on these forums now for close to two years I have seen predominatly more threads about keeping factory bovs or upgrading to gtr ones.. then blocking off...

Adam

Hey Adam

If you're running the factory computer, it is EXTREMELY beneficial to continue to run a plumb back BOV, which is either the factory GTS-t one, or the factory GTR BOV.

Reason. If you run flutterz, you get air that does flow back past the AFM the wrong way, and the computer believes there is air going INTO the motor (When in fact, the AFM is being triggered by air flowing the wrong way) Hence, computer will dump in a HEAP of fuel, way way way way way more fuel then is needed. And generally, stall.

If you run an atmospheric BOV, the air that has already been "counted" by the AFM (And hence computer) is being dumped outside, and hence, the computer will put in way more fuel then is needed (But not as much as what the flutterz will) And on rare occasions, stall.

Now, both of these setups are causing very high counts of CO emissions, way more then is acceptable, and hence, a breach of emissions, and also poor drive-ability.

For this reason, most people will recommend running the factory BOV, or GTR one, but this isn't for anything to do with "keeping the turbo in one piece" other wise, they'd also recommend running atmospheric BOV, as they also stop the "flutterz".

Now, throw on a PFC (Or any AFM setup tuneable ECU), and you can tune around the stalling issues, and most of the overfuel issue (but not all of it really).

Chuck on a MAP sensor reading tuneable ECU, and you can run any setup of BOV or no BOV you want, and have zero running or emissions issues.

The big thing is though, SAU seems to have a cult following for AFM setup ECUs (Which baffles me HUGELY, when it costs you ~$300 each time you max out your AFM, and a MAP setup does just as good of a job)

Enough about that, my main advice to Hannibal is DON'T do it...

Unsure how long you've owned your car for mate, but check out I think it's Panda's thread, P plater, ill-experienced, bent car, and he wasn't even using the power of the NA.

Seriously, stick to the NA, throw some suspension work at it, and learn to drive it around a bend properly, and with a few subtle NA mods, you'll be carving up most of the turbo boys around a race track (Except the main straight) due to the fact you're relying on turning in, and getting out of the corner quickly, where as, most of them are struggling in corners due to power...

Basically, learn to drive the car, and turbo it once you can do so legally.

[Cro_boy_Mario]

easiest way is just to get an rb25det from a stagea....same setup but turbo already

[N-DAWG]

I completely agree with what Matt has said about sticking to an N/A with good suspension and subtle mods before going up to a turbo car.

Whilst I would have like to have had a turbo car straight away, and after buying an N/A I realised that I could have bought a turbo model with change of licence; I really don't regret having developed my experience in a non turbo skyline first.

Driving a Skyline is one thing when on your P's, you have higher insurance, the cost of making a claim is ridiculous! Having a turbo skyline just leaves too much temptation to do something that could end nasty. I'm not saying that you can't drive fast in an N/A and have the exact same happen, but with a turbo car it's a lot easier, and more tempting, and if you don't have the experience, it's very easy to lose control and goodbye skyline. I don't care what anyone says, if you're still on your provisionals you still have a lot of experience to gain. I'm saying this and I still have a year left to go on mine. Don't learn the hard way like I know some people have.

Buy an N/A, learn the limits of your car in a controlled environment, once you have mastered that then you can always do a turbo conversion later or buy a turbo model skyline. It's not the end of the world if you can't have a turbo straight away.

Also I didn't realise the extent of the complications with driving a prohibited vehicle should the worst happen...for the sake of everyone else on the road obey the laws. We may not like them, and it's not fair how it creates a problem with buying a car now, then changing it later etc.. but they are there for a reason.

[Eug]

i will second the suspension upgrades. i have run times equal or better to some gtr and some gtst drivers out at QR. i am by no means a good driver and the drivers of the turbo models aren't spectacular either, but it illustrates the point that simply having a high powered car does not make you into an instant schumacher (i just say that because everyone knows his name, i would have preferred montoya or alonso)

[Mr.Massive]

hey. ye i just recenty baught 1 of these myself.

im pritty sure if u want to do a clean turbo engine swap, you need to find a STAGAE engine (Station wagon Skyline). there rb25DET, 4wd, apparently its a snack 2 install. but if you really want your GTS4 2 hav balls just get a rb26 and slam that in there.

[OoskylineoO]

hey guys, sorry to hijack topic a bit need some help!

Problem is, i just put a s1 stagea motor into my s2 r33 gts4, originally it was NA. I plugged a factory r33 s2 gtst ecu in (assuming s1 stagea rb25 and r33 s2 rb25 are the same) but it misfires and chokes badly after about 3000rpm when i put my foot down. I don't know if this is because of the differences in ecu if any? or if there is something wrong with the motor itself.

Question is am I going to have to find a s1 stagea ecu and wiring loom and replace the existing one?, are there any differences between the s1 stagea rb25 vs r33 s2 rb25? injectors maybe? :S i noticed the ecu plugs between the s1 stagea rb25s and s2 r33 rb25s are different. Are there such things as ecu r33 stagea adapters?

Im out of ideas.

Any help will be greatly appreciated thanks guys! lol

[R34GTFOUR]

There isnt a difference in the engines, a rb25det from a stagea or skyline. is the same thing. So you're existing harness and ecu should do the trick, no need to source anything from the stagea.

How does it drive off boost? Does it idle fine? Any error codes?

Beinge the magical 3000rpm mark i would check common problem areas first. Ie spark plugs, coils, afm, boost leak, fuel pump/filter...

[sydking]

i also own a 33 GTS-4 but have no intentions for turbo yet but just looking at the option

1- bolt on a turbo

2- get a engine from a stagea

My main thing is keeping the AWD, and i know its probably much easier just to get a GTR but lets just say that's not an option atm.

Would puting an RB25DET from a stagea be the best thing to do?

and do the stageas come in a RB26DET or RB26DETT N1 or RB26DETT Z2, if so would that fit into a gts4?

Edited September 22, 2009 by sydking

[stump_69]

I've got a 33 gts-4 aswell, according to SSS automotive

i should change the ecu and loom, and all the motor will need is the old sump?

[central coast person]

???? all the motor will need is the old sump?????? what motor?

If its a RWD motor the block is no where near the same shape as the sump to bolt it on, you will need a stagea engine not a skyline one

And yes ECU and looms will need to be replaced and also some body work for intake pipeing

Edited July 20, 2011 by central coast person

[Luciano]

And yes ECU and looms will need to be replaced and also some body work for intake pipeing

^corrected. you can re-use the N/A loom; we did on my cousin's 33 gts4 with stag 25det conversion - no dramas at all.

[SKiT_R31]

^corrected. you can re-use the N/A loom; we did on my cousin's 33 gts4 with stag 25det conversion - no dramas at all.

Quoted for truth .

Also only body work is to cut holes if using factory side mount (which is easy since the body moulding already reflects the locations, If you pre-empts with a FMIC it means you only cut one hole so car is neater).

You just lose out on dual stage boost on the N/A loom, so run a boost controller if you want more than 5-6psi.

[sydking]

hmmm the harder it seems to sell up and find a clean GTR the conversion seem a good option, rb26dett around 4k, extra 10k for brakes and gear box and wheels. then labour, i think $15k you can have yourself a nice sleeper AWD beast

[central coast person]

^corrected. you can re-use the N/A loom; we did on my cousin's 33 gts4 with stag 25det conversion - no dramas at all.

yeah i was only refering to the boost turbo wiring as its not ledgit. im obcessive compulsive with my car.

Yeah the panel for the intercooler pipe work is already almost punched out

[dirtyRS4]

^corrected. you can re-use the N/A loom; we did on my cousin's 33 gts4 with stag 25det conversion - no dramas at all.

^^ exactamundo.