Tapleys Hill Road

[nos man]

the point of my initial post was it's the attitude and ego of the driver that needs to be changed or influenced in a better way. high powered car or not the attitude of the driver can be determinded by their ego and the people around them! you Pete, you're probably matured by now but would you're thinking still be the same as now back then if you didn't have AIR? when you think about it, how many young people on here own performance cars and other forums for that matter? how many of them get into hoon related accidents? yes the car plays a big part but at the end of the day it still comes down to the attitude of the driver which was at fault. you can drive a corolla at 60 and a skyline as well which all leads to my original point

but trust me on this, at the work shop you should see the amount of dreamers that come through doing work on their non performance cars. i've seen cars like a bmw 318i putting in performance shocks for the hills. there's a little carby civic and he's put more cash into his car than what it's worth, a honda jazz with a full exhaust system and he fangs it every time i see him! there are more that i won't mention but you should get my drift. but these are people who've just started driving as well and they're not driving turbo cars

yes you can do what sydney did and put in the restrictions but what's stopping them from registering the car under their parents name? i don't condone the restrictions, i never said i did but my point being it's still not gonna stop hoon related accidents!

Edited November 30, 2008 by nos man

[SkyHi_33]

Motorcyclists are limited under the LAMS program, so why can't L and P platers be subject to naturally aspirated 4 cylinder cars with under 100kw?

Trust me, motorcycle restrictions are just as stupid. Theres nothing stopping me from jumping on my shitty 250cc sports bike and taking it up to 200. all it takes is a slightest change in road conditions and im dead. Im not saying restrictions should be lifted as they got their Pros too but restricting people WILL NEVER change their attitude towards it.

Not to mention that if you're a tall f**ker and want a sports bike, its lots of pain and cramps, not to mention how safe it is having a over sized person riding a undersized bike. but that's another story.

Also SLED on a note of having "no chance" in a underpowered pos car making you not wanna do stupid things, i do see where you are coming from, but a young driver who just got his/her license and freedom vs. an experienced driver who has a beast sitting in the garage are two different things. You might not get the urge to do anything stupid but I'm sure as hell they do. All of my friends that got their licences some years ago thrashed the crap out of whatever they got, one of them still does. And by no means were/are any of those cars quick off the line nor something to rave on about.

[Rocky88]

They need education on roads and shown pictures and video's of the devistation crashes cause to scare the shit out of them.

Actually all that already exists. I've had cops coming to my high school in yr11 showing us really graphical slide shows of crashes and injuries. We also already have very tight license laws, tight p-plater restrictions, cops and cameras everywhere, absurdly low speed limits, high penalties etc... but honestly, what do you think is gonna stop some idiot trying to do 140k around corner?

And for gods sake, how will police enforce the power to weight ratio limitations??? Are they gonna dyno every p-plater car they pull over?

Edited November 30, 2008 by Rocky88

[scandyflick]

fairly simply equation. the promotional and sales material for a car generally contains the following, vehicle weight, vehicle power. do the maths and you get "x kw/tonne", no doubt the police would have a little handbook with these in it. and if the cars modded, well, simple. ban.

[SLED]

Not to mention that if you're a tall f**ker and want a sports bike, its lots of pain and cramps, not to mention how safe it is having a over sized person riding a undersized bike. but that's another story.

haha, yeah someone here took a funny pic of me on a sports bike that just didn't look right, lol

and I take your point on the other stuff in the latter part of your post..................only cause you made me laugh

[Nene260RS]

There you go pete!!

[SLED]

haha, thats the one..........reckon it must have looked funnier leaning forward with my feet up on the pegs.

[Nene260RS]

u mean like this ?? LOL!!

[RubyRS4]

u mean like this ?? LOL!!

The look of the new Kwaks just look silly ... Pete riding it just enforces that opinion

[SLED]

rofl........nathan looks OK on it.......I look ridiculous

[RubyRS4]

The other thing to take into consideration is 15 -20 years ago you were driving your corollas and dattos with drum brakes, you get above 100kph and it'll take you a lot longer to slow down.. The cars may be getting more powerful as the years go by but they are also getting safer and getting weighed down by all the things they 'have' to have.

As Pete said, the "safer" design of the WRX didn't save the driver from losing it and crashing and killing.

What you're all overlooking is "risk compensation". This means that as cars get "safer" (open for debate) the driver will compensate by driving more dangerous, taking more risks ... thinking his hooning will balance out with the safety feature of his car. Wrong. WRX driver for one proved that.

You can stick a teen/hoon into an NA 4 cylinder car or a turboed V8 ... either way they'll find a new way to kill themselves. But the NA 4 cyl car will be harder for them to end up in trouble, it will take them longer to reach a high speed, and it will deter them from drag racing in the suburbs if they know the car is gutless anyway. Limiting them to an underpowered car will not give them more skill (that was a dumb statement), but the underpowered car will not require them to have more skill than they can offer, than a car like a WRX or Skyline. Inexperience and lack of skill is a big killer. Thinking otherwise is just stupid.

So 'yes'. Give them 2-4 cylinders less (a 4 cyl car) and take away the option for forced induction/cams etc, and limit them to a 100kw car and their parents can rest easy they'll be better off and will come home at night in one piece.

[Nene260RS]

aaaww pete dont be so hard on yourself! LMAO

[money pit]

Anyone who thinks that it was safer on the roads 15-20 years ago is wrong. In todays paper the death toll is listed from 1950 up until today. It peaked in 1974 with 382 deaths and has been on a downward trend ever since. This year its the lowest its ever been and if its a safe Xmas then it will easily be a record low, possibly under 100. Considering that there are more cars than ever on the roads this tends to make a mockery of all the talk about how dangerous it is out there.

Cars are safer, licenses are harder to get, and driver training before issue of a license is intense compared to 10 years ago.

So where does this leave the argument??

[dangerman4]

but when was the last time you heard of a 30 yr old killing his freinds in a import?

havent we had 3 teenage fatalities in the last month alone?

all driving turboed cars?

if your 16 - 24 and think your the worlds best driver, and hooning to impress people is fun then your very niaeve.

[Chris#3]

but when was the last time you heard of a 30 yr old killing his freinds in a import?

havent we had 3 teenage fatalities in the last month alone?

all driving turboed cars?

if your 16 - 24 and think your the worlds best driver, and hooning to impress people is fun then your very niaeve.

And news travels far faster these days with the speed in which technology has developed so the media can get the story out asap even though they don't know the full story (see the crash thread on NS as an example). I'm in no way claiming it's always the case but people like to jump to conclusions and generalize. Also, I don't think anyone is trying to say a 16-24 year old driver is better than a 30+ year old driver, they're trying to point out that everyone did stupid things when they were young (some worse than others) so I don't see how people can compare their driving now to a 16-24 year old when in reality they probably "hooned" around at that age.

[RubyRS4]

but when was the last time you heard of a 30 yr old killing his freinds in a import?

havent we had 3 teenage fatalities in the last month alone?

all driving turboed cars?

if your 16 - 24 and think your the worlds best driver, and hooning to impress people is fun then your very niaeve.

Amen.

Teenage/young drivers just do not know what they are doing. Period.

And news travels far faster these days with the speed in which technology has developed so the media can get the story out asap even though they don't know the full story (see the crash thread on NS as an example). I'm in no way claiming it's always the case but people like to jump to conclusions and generalize. Also, I don't think anyone is trying to say a 16-24 year old driver is better than a 30+ year old driver, they're trying to point out that everyone did stupid things when they were young (some worse than others) so I don't see how people can compare their driving now to a 16-24 year old when in reality they probably "hooned" around at that age.

Don't go judging all drivers in one paragraph.

I was brought up around racers and fast cars and bikes. My father raced in speedway (bikes) and rallys in the 70's and 80's. He was also the mechanic for the Datsun Rally team then. My uncle drag raced. I naturally got involved in that environment and I've been racing for years on bikes, and I've had my fair share of fast cars and bikes. I was taught from an early age about skill, experience and attitude. Lack of any will get you killed. My first car was my uncle's old drag/street car ... heavily worked motor and all. But I never had any hair raising moment in it at all on the streets.

I've travelled at some ridiculous speeds but its always been in a controlled environment. I know I'm more skilled and experienced than most drivers/riders out there, but I don't consider myself invincible. Yet teens believe they are invincible because they have a fast car and some mates to show off to.

When I was 16/17, me and my mates would take our fun to the track or a private property for a bash around or race. We always used protective gear and never put anyone at risk.

But thats just too hard for most to understand.

Edited December 1, 2008 by RubyRS4

[SLED]

in 1974

nobody wore a seat belt

you could do 10 mph over the limit and just get a warning (10mph = 16kph)

cars weren't designed with crumple zones

major intersections didn't have traffic lights

roundabouts??? what were they?

alcohol limit was .08

if my mum knew the local copper, he would go easy on me and give me a full licence

P plates??? what were they

8 questions & 4 diagrams to get your L's

I could write a book if you like!

Hope that answers your question moneypit

[skyhighR33]

agree, id be f*cking pissed off if they didn't let me have my car i have now. im safe on the road dont do stupid shit with others in the car but will do it when i am alone and not around town. get over it seriously why does everyone need to argue to be right all good opinions. i agree with money pit. let them learn there lesson.

[Chris#3]

Teenage/young drivers just do not know what they are doing. Period.

Don't go judging all drivers in one paragraph.

I was brought up around racers and fast cars and bikes. My father raced in speedway (bikes) and rallys in the 70's and 80's. He was also the mechanic for the Datsun Rally team then. My uncle drag raced. I naturally got involved in that environment and I've been racing for years on bikes, and I've had my fair share of fast cars and bikes. I was taught from an early age about skill, experience and attitude. Lack of any will get you killed. My first car was my uncle's old drag/street car ... heavily worked motor and all. But I never had any hair raising moment in it at all on the streets.

I've travelled at some ridiculous speeds but its always been in a controlled environment. I know I'm more skilled and experienced than most drivers/riders out there, but I don't consider myself invincible. Yet teens believe they are invincible because they have a fast car and some mates to show off to.

When I was 16/17, me and my mates would take our fun to the track or a private property for a bash around or race. We always used protective gear and never put anyone at risk.

But thats just too hard for most to understand.

Ummm, well for starters I wasn't judging all drivers in one paragraph and even if I did, you did it in one sentence then totally contradicted yourself by saying I shouldn't judge all drivers as one.

I can't speak for all 16-24 year old drivers but I take it fairly easy in the hills and most other times because I wasn't brought up with fast cars or particularly good handling ones either and I know I lack the skill of others on here so I stick to the middle/back of cruises, etc. I'm not saying I'm a perfect driver by any means...I've made mistakes but fortunately I've never been in a crash/been caught speeding. What I was getting at is that no-one is a perfect driver at a young age and you shouldn't go generalising.

In regards to taking it to a track....I don't know what was available back when you were learning but there is only one track that is bloody expensive to hire and I for one don't know anyone with a large enough property to improve me driving on so I stick to the limit most of the time (even with friends in the car) unless it's safe to go faster and even on hills runs I rarely exceed the speed limit (not to say it's not dangerous).

Edited December 1, 2008 by Eddyfier

[PREISS]

Anyone who thinks that it was safer on the roads 15-20 years ago is wrong. In todays paper the death toll is listed from 1950 up until today. It peaked in 1974 with 382 deaths and has been on a downward trend ever since. This year its the lowest its ever been and if its a safe Xmas then it will easily be a record low, possibly under 100. Considering that there are more cars than ever on the roads this tends to make a mockery of all the talk about how dangerous it is out there.

Cars are safer, licenses are harder to get, and driver training before issue of a license is intense compared to 10 years ago.

So where does this leave the argument??

totally agree with you.

but when was the last time you heard of a 30 yr old killing his freinds in a import?

havent we had 3 teenage fatalities in the last month alone?

all driving turboed cars?

if your 16 - 24 and think your the worlds best driver, and hooning to impress people is fun then your very niaeve.

youll find if you do some research that there were more fatalities with the 60+ bracket. and also 35+.

fatalities.

not sure on normal crashes tho