Tapleys Hill Road

[RubyRS4]

I know I didn't contradict myself. I know what I wrote and what was meant by it. I can talk slower for those who want it

I agree with Sled. 30 years ago the driving conditions/safety were basic. Today we have state or art cars and added safety features, but that should mean no one is dying or crashing? No. Why? What is the one thing that is getting worse as the cars are getting better?

Answer: driver attitude.

IBTL

[PREISS]

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/saf..._Stats_2007.pdf

have a look at the stats.

look at the graph showing the death decline from 1981 till 2007 (half)

These days there are more cars also. So the media is hyping up the danger.

I do know it is dangerous out there, but nothing worse than before.

[SLED]

Ummm, well for starters I wasn't judging all drivers in one paragraph and even if I did, you did it in one sentence then totally contradicted yourself by saying I shouldn't judge all drivers as one.

I can't speak for all 16-24 year old drivers but I take it fairly easy in the hills and most other times because I wasn't brought up with fast cars or particularly good handling ones either and I know I lack the skill of others on here so I stick to the middle/back of cruises, etc. I'm not saying I'm a perfect driver by any means...I've made mistakes but fortunately I've never been in a crash/been caught speeding. What I was getting at is that no-one is a perfect driver at a young age and you shouldn't go generalising.

In regards to taking it to a track....I don't know what was available back when you were learning but there is only one track that is bloody expensive to hire and I for one don't know anyone with a large enough property to improve me driving on so I stick to the limit most of the time (even with friends in the car) unless it's safe to go faster and even on hills runs I rarely exceed the speed limit (not to say it's not dangerous).

at least you acknowledge where you're at in relation to your driving skills which is a good start.............unfortunately there's too many teenagers that don't and then it's usually too late

youll find if you do some research that there were more fatalities with the 60+ bracket. and also 35+.

fatalities.

not sure on normal crashes tho

you can makes stats say anything you want them to........if you dig deeper with those stats, you'll possibly find that there are alot more licenced 35+ than licenced teenagers

[Chris#3]

Teenage/young drivers just do not know what they are doing. Period.

Don't go judging all drivers in one paragraph.

There ya go!

Although I do agree with you on one thing.

Driver attitude is the major issue. Not all young drivers think they're the next drift king/V8 hero. I for one know I'm not capable of driving as well as others and I drive accordingly (as stated before) but I'm not saying I'm perfect (also stated before).

[SLED]

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/saf..._Stats_2007.pdf

have a look at the stats.

look at the graph showing the death decline from 1981 till 2007 (half)

These days there are more cars also. So the media is hyping up the danger.

I do know it is dangerous out there, but nothing worse than before.

lol mate......go back & have a look at post 117.........I've already explained why there were so many deaths back then!!

rofl at these meaningless stats

[PREISS]

SLED. no need to be smart.

When I was growing up driving I was sick of all the negativity. teenagers this. teenagers that. I was a good driver. not a hoon. I feel sorry for the genuine drivers out there.

yes the 17 - 25 range have a slightly higher death rate in %.

innocent till proven guilty.

Thats all Im saying.

[RubyRS4]

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/saf..._Stats_2007.pdf

have a look at the stats.

look at the graph showing the death decline from 1981 till 2007 (half)

These days there are more cars also. So the media is hyping up the danger.

I do know it is dangerous out there, but nothing worse than before.

You can't seriously compare data from decades ago to current data. Reporting methods have changed. Total deaths in (say) 1974 were actually that ... total deaths. Pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, drivers, passengers etc. Now days they break up the reporting into different categories. So you could potentially be comparing data from driver deaths only today, compared with total (all categories) deaths 30 odd years ago. 30 years ago they didn't have sub-categories.

I've been on a Govt assisted panel and have been over these so called stats. What you need to do is read the 'raw data'. Not summaries. Study some Statistical Analysis at uni and you'll learn any stat summary can say what you want it to say. Govts need to justify big spending on traffic equipment and need to "prove" on paper its working. Data can be presented to represent a wanted answer. The classic has always been that motorcyclists are 20 times more likely to die in a road crash than a car driver. Truth is (when you read the raw data) motorcyclists are 4 times more likely to be injured in a crash than a car driver would be to be killed. Read it more closely and you'll also understand 84% of multi-vehicle accidents involving a motorcycle death/injury are caused by the car driver at fault. This was of course interpreted as being you've an 84% chance to be injured on a bike than in a car in a multi vehcile crash. Word craft at its best.

You can take data today and omit one sub-category or present a particular query with the data to make it read what you want it to read.

If you believe what you see in summaries or new reports you're silly.

[RubyRS4]

rofl at these meaningless stats

+1

I could present a summary to show you're safer on a bike if I wanted to. Its how the author wants to the summary to be presented.

[Chris#3]

at least you acknowledge where you're at in relation to your driving skills which is a good start.............unfortunately there's too many teenagers that don't and then it's usually too late

Cheers Pete. I'm not saying that the generation I'm in are better drivers than earlier generations, all I'm trying to get across is that not all young drivers should be blanketed by the same criticism of showing off to mates, generally "hooning" everywhere, etc because there are some of us (even though it may be a small percentage) that drive accordingly to our skills/experience.

That's another thing I agree with you on Roo, stat's are rarely consistent over long periods of time as methods change which makes the data almost redundant as we can't tell what group made up what percentage of the accidents.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Eddyfier

[PREISS]

Ok sure.

fine.

Im not one to argue/debate on the net/

Just thought some people might want to here something diff. from someone diff for once.

[SLED]

SLED. no need to be smart.

When I was growing up driving I was sick of all the negativity. teenagers this. teenagers that. I was a good driver. not a hoon. I feel sorry for the genuine drivers out there.

yes the 17 - 25 range have a slightly higher death rate in %.

innocent till proven guilty.

Thats all Im saying.

sorry mate, I was being a bit cheeky

I just got frustrated at your post after giving you an answer to that question a few posts earlier

[RubyRS4]

I'm getting a headache from all the posts

[Nene260RS]

u are all hurting my brain LMAO.

[money pit]

in 1974

nobody wore a seat belt

you could do 10 mph over the limit and just get a warning (10mph = 16kph)

cars weren't designed with crumple zones

major intersections didn't have traffic lights

roundabouts??? what were they?

alcohol limit was .08

if my mum knew the local copper, he would go easy on me and give me a full licence

P plates??? what were they

8 questions & 4 diagrams to get your L's

I could write a book if you like!

Hope that answers your question moneypit

I find it a bit difficult to follow your line of reasoning in relation to my question but: Everthing you say is quite true and I should know because I was on the road in 1977, also a bad year with 300+ deaths. The point is that the roads and cars are now much safer than they have been at any point in the recent past. When you add to this the increased volume of traffic it becomes clear that todays drivers are in general better educated and more experienced when they take to the road. Something else I know a bit about because I've just finished putting my second one through it all.

My main point is that to a large extent the attention given to teenage fatal car accidents is media hype. It is not designed to be constructive, it is to sell newspapers and to get people to watch the Today Tonight or some such shit. If the fatalities happen to occur while driving a turbo or any high powered car then the event gets extra attention. What about the 2 teensagers killed just outside Two Wells while driving a poxy old van, not news worthy enough to hold our attention for more than a day and no ammunition to use against imports etc so the story quickly faded.

My post was actually directed at those who for some reason think that everthing was better in the good 'ol days, they weren't.

Just for good (bad) measure; 2 nephews, 2 close friends and several acquaintances (too many in fact), all killed on the road.

I could write a follow up to your book.

[RubyRS4]

Alot of good valid points here.

Good to see a debate without childish interventions

All valid points. But it does all come down to how the information is filtered thru to us (media/stats/word of mouth ... or even forum arguments)

[RubyRS4]

Good to see a debate without childish interventions

... oh hang on, wait for it ...

[SLED]

I take what you say on board money pit and condolences on lost family members

[rhys5169]

its all well and good to say that older drivers are better, and youve had "this" many years more experience but on a day to day basis i see more bad drivers in the 35-55 age bracket than anyone else. they sit in the right lane, tailgate, brake before indicating, and did a mention sit in the right lane?

at the end of the day it isnt how long you have been driving its how you learnt to drive. if your parents tought u bad habbits 30 years ago, and you did the 5 minute spin around the block with the local officer then you have been more than likely doing the same thing wrong on the road for the past 3 decades and will most likely pass it down to your own children.

so to sit back in your old high horse is somewhat arrogant. yes i agree that there is an attitude problem with alot of todays driving youth (and this needs to be fixed, how i do not know) but once again the older population is judging the mass by the minority. if anything todays youth know ALOT more about basic road rules than there parents ever have due to the L's booklet test etc.

[RubyRS4]

I take what you say on board money pit and condolences on lost family members

Condolences also. I've lost a few too. I believe most of us would have. When I've read those numbers, I'm aware some of them are good friends/family. RIP

Actually had a memorial ride for a fallen rider (close friend) last night. Killed 2 years ago. A big loss to the biker community that one.

Edited December 1, 2008 by RubyRS4

[RubyRS4]

Yeah don't worry about it Nene. We'll keep the topic constructive.

EDIT: oops, I thought this was the MSN window

Edited December 1, 2008 by RubyRS4