Gt35r Vs Garrett T04z - Discussion (just Post In This Thread To Create A Database)

[tommis85]

LOL at the last couple replies! The last point despite the humour, is actually quite legid! I'll also have to revise my "wage" size so I can upgrade the whole car to take that power

I think for now I'll go with the one size smaller turbine lol! I've been lucky to buy a stock GTR so I know what turbo response is all about. I've never experienced response in a turbo'd car like I have in my near mint condition R33. In saying that, I wish to be able to keep the responsiveness if possible so going for the T04 probably isnt the best choice.

If you tallied up all the turbo recommendations in this thread I'd say that the GT3582r would have the highest count? Or? I think from what people have said in here, this turbo would be a good average unit to go with....not too small and not too big and just a bit laggier than the stockies or twin upgrade.

BUT....then, you'd think that even a GT3582 would be too big for it for it with my power goals and track use. You want to be able to pull away nicely from those tight corners! I've heard GT3071's mentioned a fair bit for both GTR's and GTST's...would these perhaps be a better choice?

So far, I have my choices rounded down to a GT3071, GT3582 and T04z twin scroll with 0.61. The last two would also be more expensive as they require external gates.

TOO MANY CHOICES!!!! HELP!!! lol (sorry, my coffee has just kicked in)

Edited December 8, 2008 by tommis85

[bigmikespec]

Yes the .61 with twin scroll would be the ultimate for a 2.6L engine....seeing that normally, the T04z is more ideally suited for a 3L motor. With the .61/twin scroll you should be spared from real bad lag....maybe it'd start to spool at say 3700rpm or so rather than 4000???

Why would you want to strangle a large turbo with a tiny housing? Seems pointless, get a smaller turbo (or pair of) to make the power you want at the rpm you feel adequate. It is like some people are buying a TO4Z for the wrong reasons and doing everything possible (including choking it with a tiny housing) to make it produce power at lower rpm.

My 2c

Mike

[tommis85]

Mike, that's very true. Right now I'm seaking input from everywhere I can on what turbo to upgrade to. My mechanic is doing his research and I said that I'd see if I can find some info on SAU and then compare. So far there's been some excellent threads, like this one.

Yeh, it does seam a bit stupid and wasteful. Maybe I should be investigating sizes in the GT30 to low GT35 region instead, where, GT35 would probably still be too big?

[juggernaut1]

Why not a 3071, 3076 or GT35 in twin scroll they all use the same .78 divided housing albeit the housing is machined out for the larger wheel of the GT35. That way you can setup your manifold and gates to suit that housing and have the option of 3 turbos. Full-race also puts together a GT35 on T4 divided ex housings for more flow if that is necessary.

From memory .82 divided housing are also available for the 3071/76/GT35 but harder to come by. I think Billett turbos may have them available tho.

[tommis85]

Juggernaut1,

Yeh I'm just looking at the GT30 options in Turbobygarret at the momment. Yes you're correct with the number of options you get with this series ;-) According to the site two of the GT3071's come with a specially made rear end with a internal wastegate which is also excellent (although they don't sell the actuator with them but I guess you'll just have to get one from somewhere else).

I'll have to run these past my mechanic and see what he can do for me.

Well I race at QR (queensland raceway for those who may not know) and if you google the track you can see it has quite some tight corners but also a nice front straight. So, you'd have to set the car up for that but also Morgan Park in Warwick which is quite a different track again. I'm thinking that you'd have to bias the car to windy/cornering performance and hence, you'd also assume that the GT30 series would be best???

If only you could take them for a test drive!

[Public Enemy]

i don't believe a .61 rear is going to strangle the T04Z that much.

We all know it's near impossible to build an RB that is going to be responsive for the street / motorkana, make good mid range for circuit racing, and make high Hp for the Drags.

My thinking was to run the T04Z with .61 for street / motor kana getting improved response and probably still 500hp atw, more than enough for this. And with the .61 making full boost early and the gate coming wide open alot of the exhaust is going to bypass the turbo anyway so it won't strangle it that much.

Run the .81 for the circuit getting reasonable midrange and good top end. Should be no problem keeping this setup in the powerband on a circuit.

Run the 1.00 for drags for max top end HP and not so laggy it will hurt your 60.

3 good setups for different uses easliy configured in a couple of hours with a few of gaskets, a map change and a rear housing change.

Beats have 3 different turbo's, manifolds and plumbing.

Anyone have a .61 twin scroll they don't want?

[tommis85]

Paul,

They may all be fair and good but I think that you may be comparing this to your stroker? The more posts I read (and dyno graphs I see) the more laggy the T04z seams to be.

I sort of agree with Mike's comments above:

Why would you want to strangle a large turbo with a tiny housing? Seems pointless, get a smaller turbo (or pair of) to make the power you want at the rpm you feel adequate. It is like some people are buying a TO4Z for the wrong reasons and doing everything possible (including choking it with a tiny housing) to make it produce power at lower rpm.

It appears that you have to do all these things to make the big T04z perform and have the characteristics of a smaller turbo more suited to the 26. I'm sure that with these mod's to the T04 it would come onto song quite nicely but why do all that when you can just run a smaller turbo that will run nicely straight away.

Paul, with my stock 26 I'd probably have to run the 0.61 bum end everywhere and maybe (MAYBE) use the 0.81 if I'm game and totally steer clear of the 1.00 (I'm not into drag racing anyway - I could buy a VL for that)

[Roy]

If you have an R33 then i would personally go baby twins for the 310-330awkws. Simply because of the manifolding and dump/front pipes etc can all stay the same. If you have the cash then upgrade the front pipes and aybe even dump pipes. I love single setups, but if you bought a GTR with twins then i would keep it that way. Ensuring you have a good quality single manifold and wastegate will almost be the price of the twins you can buy.

[tommis85]

Roy,

Yes that was the first option I explored and had it fully quoted down to the last Banjo fitting that may need to be replaced It came to around $3800 including a couple of dyno-tunes. In that case I would have been running a set of twin bolt up 2560's or which ever ones were the modernized N1 size units. Yes you're quite right with the price comparison.

Yes, one of the other mechanics I consulted had the same reasoning. If it's a GTR it should stay twin simply because a GTR has a twin setup. Personally I believe that the whole twin setup was something big during the era but these days, with refined manufacturing processes, you can get single units that have the same, if not better, performance than the 13 y/o ceramic jobs. It's just a matter of finding one lol out of the millions of choices out there. Back then, the only way you could get blistering response was with a set of very small ceramic exhaust wheels....literally next to no lag.

I just like the idea of one medium frame unit. Easier to work on, maintain, less congestion and less complicated.

[tommis85]

I'm pretty much just weighing up the two options. I've already explored the twin upgrade to the finest degree.

Now, I'm looking at the twin to single option and seeing what people have done, their experiences and how their results compare with their goals and hopes etc.

So yeh, all the above has been very helpful...

[Public Enemy]

Hi Tom,

not so much trying to talk you into going T04Z, more just justifing the reasons behind my choice. Agreed this setup is more suited to an RB28.

A pair of Garrett -5's seem to be the flavour of the month at the moment, and with good reason.

[KB240RB]

2JZ guys have full boost by 4krpm with the T67 undivided. RB25/26 should have full boost by 4500rpm. Is that really considered laggy? I'll admit its laggy on my SR20. Full Boost @ 5500rpm on an Undivided T3 .82 Housing. I could only see a .8x Divided Housing on an RB25 or RB26 be nothing but fun. Hit full boost below 4500rpm and have plenty of power through the entire powerband.

Edited December 9, 2008 by KB240RB

[SimonR32]

Why would you want to strangle a large turbo with a tiny housing? Seems pointless, get a smaller turbo (or pair of) to make the power you want at the rpm you feel adequate. It is like some people are buying a TO4Z for the wrong reasons and doing everything possible (including choking it with a tiny housing) to make it produce power at lower rpm.

My 2c

Mike

i dont think it would strangle the turbo considering under high boost and power... a lot of the zaust gases would be bypassing the turbo and screaming into the open air through your external wastegate!!!

[discopotato03]

Sorry to burst your HKS T04Z twin scroll bubble but they aren't twin scroll housings . True they do have two inlet ports but the divider in the middle only goes a short way into the "throat" of those turbine housings .

The 0.78 A/R housing Full Race and others have fitted to GT30's and GT35's is not designed for either , it's one of Garretts options for their plain bearing GT3267/GT3271 series diesel turbochargers .

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarre...71_452203_1.htm

Last time I spoke to Geoff about it he said that they are really too small for a GT3582R anyway , people have done good things with them on real GT3071R's and I'd say that's because the turbine housing probably wouldn't create a restriction when venting an engine being fed by the 71mm GT compressor .

You should really email him through FullRace Motorsports forum on their site , he played with RB26's for a while and has some nice goodies for them .

I think it's optimistic at best to think you can have any engine suit such varied states of tune simply by exchanging turbine housings , it's not a 5 minute job and you'll be over that the second time you do it .

If you really love T04Z's go buy the complete HKS kit inc gate and manifold - then hope to christ you don't get busted by the cops .

The only legal solution is twins and the right ones go bolt .

I'm not really with you as far as working on the turbo/s goes because it's not like they need a regular diet of plugs and points , they either function properly or they don't and while they do they're best left alone .

As I said earlier IMO a well sorted head and cams should be able to enhance the characteristics of GTSS's or 2530's - meaning pull the lower end up with the 2530's or extend the SS's a bit more .

I don't think its possible to cover the full engine speed range by throwing turbos at a std RB26 , they were designed around late 80's thinking and smallish ceramic turbos . If you want significantly different your have to alter the engines breathing and burning characteristics or forever suffer the legacy of what Nissan created .

Cheers A .

A .

Edited December 9, 2008 by discopotato03

[tommis85]

Discopotato03,

That's all fair enough. While I was trawling through the Garret site I came across that very same turbo series. GT32. Seeing that people say that the GT30 series may be a bit smallish and is only limited to "that" much power and the GT35 being a bit biggish, how would you rate this GT32 series? On a 26, would it be a good average for single turbo upgrade?

Well I have the quote for the twin upgrade pretty much ready to go - I only have to give my mech a call and he'll get the turbos in etc. I just want to spend a week or so getting feedback on singles before I do anything.

If you really love T04Z's go buy the complete HKS kit inc gate and manifold - then hope to christ you don't get busted by the cops .

The only legal solution is twins and the right ones go bolt .

....that is the other part I've been fearing. I've had my fair share of run ins and court hearings and so have now ended up with my fully stock GTR. If you plumbed everything in correctly, made sure everything is heat shielded as per legislation, filtered and not vented to atmosphere....would it all be legal? Also, my mechanic said they can supply a mod plate for a single upgrade which would all be good or?

You can make a single upgrade be totally legid and legal, right? From what I know, you're not adding anything to the car it doesn't already have (which is the beauty with GTR's)....you're merely improving the car.

[juggernaut1]

The 0.78 A/R housing Full Race and others have fitted to GT30's and GT35's is not designed for either , it's one of Garretts options for their plain bearing GT3267/GT3271 series diesel turbochargers .

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarre...71_452203_1.htm

Last time I spoke to Geoff about it he said that they are really too small for a GT3582R anyway , people have done good things with them on real GT3071R's and I'd say that's because the turbine housing probably wouldn't create a restriction when venting an engine being fed by the 71mm GT compressor .

Yes, I realise the housing is an ATP modified verions of the GT32.

Geoff also initially thought that the .78 was too small for the 3076 too but everyone in the US is running them on their SR's now including himself. I'll have my own Full-Race TS 3071 SR20 example up and running in the next week or so.

Moreover, given that Str8e180 (on this forum) is running that ex housing with a GT35 on a RB26 and is knocking on the door of 400rwks (and possibly more once his fuel pressure is sorted) doesn't indicate that there is too much of a restriction in the modified GT32 housing up to those power levels anyway.

[bigmikespec]

i dont think it would strangle the turbo considering under high boost and power... a lot of the zaust gases would be bypassing the turbo and screaming into the open air through your external wastegate!!!

Nevertheless, it does not make sense strapping a turbo that has a very high flow capacity, then limit its flow by putting a small housing on it.

Mike

[Public Enemy]

Well i guess this has turned into another single vs twin singles thread, and the twin fanboys weren't even invited!!

Before i run away with my tail between my legs i'll just add, yes i did go buy the complete HKS kit inc gate and manifold aswell as all the brackets, hoses, heat shields and fittings that come in the kit with the T04Z. And the gate is all nicely plumbed back into the dump.

As for "being over changing housings after the second go", well speak for yourself. It's not like i'm going to be doing it every week, maybe once or twice a year dude. I plan to get banned from the drags first night out so that negates the need for the 1.00 anymore.

How a single air compressor pushing out x amount of air compared to twin air compressors pushing out the same amount of air as the single is any less legal is beyond me. Sure it's a bit more obvious when you pop the hood but eventually with the way things are going thats not going to matter. You might get away with your upgraded twin singles for a little while but there are plenty of defectable modifications needed to run any turbo upgrade properly. Better of engineering it either way in the first place. Yes that's right folks bigger twins are a MODIFICATION.

[tommis85]

Maybe we can get away with our turbo mods if we also install a donut deep frying machine under the hood?

My mechanic says he can put a mod plate in for the turbo conversion. I'll ask him what the plate code actually covers and what is excluded.

How a single air compressor pushing out x amount of air compared to twin air compressors pushing out the same amount of air as the single is any less legal is beyond me.

...stuffs me too, most of their laws are beyond me. Where I live we pretty much have convoys of heavy trucks passing through billowing emissions into the air, brakes hissing and turbo's spooling and surging on gearshifts. BUT, if they hear one little hiss come from a car you'll have the entire population of cops get redirected from their domestic disputes, robberies and Donut King's to hunt you down!!!

Yeh lets not turn it into a single vs twins thread....lets just keep it single orientated as the thread starter has started it off as ;-)

[wrxkilla]

Juggernaut1,

Yeh I'm just looking at the GT30 options in Turbobygarret at the momment. Yes you're correct with the number of options you get with this series ;-) According to the site two of the GT3071's come with a specially made rear end with a internal wastegate which is also excellent (although they don't sell the actuator with them but I guess you'll just have to get one from somewhere else).

I'll have to run these past my mechanic and see what he can do for me.

Well I race at QR (queensland raceway for those who may not know) and if you google the track you can see it has quite some tight corners but also a nice front straight. So, you'd have to set the car up for that but also Morgan Park in Warwick which is quite a different track again. I'm thinking that you'd have to bias the car to windy/cornering performance and hence, you'd also assume that the GT30 series would be best???

If only you could take them for a test drive!

Well my Rb26 is just getting some finishing touches to having a GT35 fitted, and the car is 90% used at QR, so you can always come out for a passenger ride...

(I'm going from an apexi single turbo that is actually smaller than the GT30. We make 300kw and its massively responsive. It has been fantastic at QR, so will see what the more laggier GT35 will be like, but of course we'll make an extra 50awkw...+)