Gt35r Vs Garrett T04z - Discussion (just Post In This Thread To Create A Database)

[wrxkilla]

i've owned a GTR with a HKS T04R, and fark that. For circuit, GT35 all the way.

[l0WRB]

here is vid of ya car man, what did u run? 11.2? 125mph?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=KOFqYNPsyQg

also my bucket of shit lol first time at wb racing..

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=NCkoDFmdXbI

[wrxkilla]

thanks for the vid.

that run was an 11.5

next run was 11.1

cheers very much. lol

[T04GTR]

oh beat me by 2 tenths

[wrxkilla]

with a baby little 35R

he he he jokes...

Michael

[R31Nismoid]

It's Cerberas graph.

I used that one instead of Natallottos because Cerbera has no head porting, and just mild 270 degree cams.

The 35R has been scaled 5% to take into account its on a hubber.

It's the closest thing I could get to a fair comparisson between the two, and subsequently, I've just purchased a 35R.

just as a comparison we usually get 20psi by 4000rpm with a t04z and make 370rwkw or more on the same boost

So then of the two who are we believing?

The graph you put in, regardless of correction shows nothing of the response spoken of.

If it was 20psi @ 4000rpm why does it take 1000rpm before it actually makes power if the boost is there... very confusing

[DCIEVE]

Spoolup has a to4z on his rb30det.

There's a few dyno sheets on the link below.

http://www.spoolimports.com/content/SpoolImportsR33.asp

R34 NEO head - HKS 272 / 9.35 cams, Performance Valve Springs

Garrett T04Z turbo 0.96 ex housing

23psi 581rwhp.

The boosts knee so to speak appears to be a little after 4000rpm.

A pair of 272 10.5mm lift cams would work much better on his setup.

As for a GT35 pushing more than a genuine 400rwkw (535rwhp) on the RB with pump fuel. I'm not a believer.

Well I went within a couple kw of 400rwkw on tenagah's dyno dynamics with a slipping clutch and delaminating rubber not forgetting there are more powerful gt35 equipped cars getting around...

ie on the same hubber that I made 435odd another properly built 26 (272's etc) has done ~450rwkw.

Ash, I believe Simon is referring to boost on the road loaded up in 4th which, if my car is anything to go by, gives much better results than the dyno.

[Brockas]

So then of the two who are we believing?

The graph you put in, regardless of correction shows nothing of the response spoken of.

If it was 20psi @ 4000rpm why does it take 1000rpm before it actually makes power if the boost is there... very confusing

I've gone back and checked the figures, there is a typo in the data from the graph I posted (apologies).

and here is Simons graph:

[Lithium]

I reckon there is a good chance your 5% difference estimation between the hub dyno and rolling road might be a bit off, almost to the point where they actually probably read about the same. If you look at the plots, notice the T04Z has more grunt at around 3000rpm than the GT3582R when they are just building boost? At pretty much any stage where they are running similar boost levels (the GT35 is actually running more at every point of the graph) the T04Z is making more power than the GT3582R but unless the car with the T04Z has a bigger motor, that is quite unlikely. It would be MUCH more likely for the GT35 to have more power at 3000rpm....

[unique1]

honestly i dont think a comparision from two different dynos with possible different ramp rates, air temps, etc is a true indication of a proper comparision, these two engines are alot different as well with cam choice etc so that doesnt help. The only way to compare is back to back turbo swap on the same engine with the same dyno and same air temps then it might be realistic. There is enough variation in readouts from one dd dyno to another dd dyno, so comparing to a hub dyno as well is pretty hard to get accurate.

[Brockas]

I reckon there is a good chance your 5% difference estimation between the hub dyno and rolling road might be a bit off

I've seen quite a few, including my own car, which have shown almost exactly a 5% difference between the Hubber at All-Star and the roller at X-Speed.

By no means am I suggesting this is 100% accurate, but its a decent indication, and all it is is two dyno charts plotted on the same graph.

[Tomek]

thanks for the vid.

that run was an 11.5

next run was 11.1

cheers very much. lol

Hey Michael..

Would you be able to go over the details of your car..

Engine build, supporting mods & complete turbo set-up

Curious.. Id like to compare my build to yours (see if I havn't taken any short-cuts along the way) also curious on your 8,500 redline.. Making power all the way to the cut?

PM me if you like, but I dare say some parties on here would be itching to know also

Cheers

Tomek

Edited January 10, 2009 by Tomek

[leg46y]

Sorry but it seems like my post was either ignored or overlooked.

What would the other determining factors (other than the turbo) as to where/how quick your car builds boost/power?

Eg; if two cars using identical turbos (incl rear housing), what would be the MAJOR things that differntiate their power outputs?

eg

-maifold design

-cams

-exhaust size

OR is it a bit more complicated than that........

because i guess you could get a properly set up GT35 making power nearly as early as a poorly set up T04Z Right?

sorry if this doesnt make sense, im just trying to understand the 'bigger picture'

[tommis85]

Sorry but it seems like my post was either ignored or overlooked.

What would the other determining factors (other than the turbo) as to where/how quick your car builds boost/power?

Eg; if two cars using identical turbos (incl rear housing), what would be the MAJOR things that differntiate their power outputs?

eg

-maifold design

-cams

-exhaust size

OR is it a bit more complicated than that........

because i guess you could get a properly set up GT35 making power nearly as early as a poorly set up T04Z Right?

sorry if this doesnt make sense, im just trying to understand the 'bigger picture'

Are you talking about turbos on identical engine types because if not then capacity and rpm's and so forth would also play a great roll. Like, for example, the GT35 and T04z function a lot better on stroked Rb26's as they have higher capacity.......close capacity to the 3.0L on which they're meant to run very well on.

I think you also mean: "you could get a properly setup T04z making power nearly as early as a poorly setup GT35...." ????

(the GT35 is smaller than the T04z).

But yeh, I think you could add the size and shape of your intercooler piping and core to the list as well. The more corners and restrictions you have in the how intercooler system from start to finish, the more lag you will have although this would only be very noticeable when you compare the BEST design (similar to V mount) to the absolute WORST design out there!!!

Dump pipe / elbow piece etc behind the turbo would also contribute I guess.

Induction system into turbo inlet.....hi-flow filter vs factory paper element filter etc. Oh, and if you have some cold air or not....partition/cold air box and snorkle etc.

That's just some things I can think off... ;-)

To add to the mix in this thread, I'm going with a GT3040/76r on my stock-stroke GTR. I'm chasing good response and power but am not using twins. I've been wanting to go with a GT35 or T04z for a long time but I want to keep the response.....not to mention that, with the bigger turbos you'd want to be using external gates which don't fall under any of the mod plate codes (something which is a must these days, especially when you drive your car to the track) If I weren't so concerned about the legal side of things (having been to court and all) I'd be going for a nice GT35 setup.

Edited January 12, 2009 by tommis85

[SimonR32]

I've gone back and checked the figures, there is a typo in the data from the graph I posted (apologies).

and here is Simons graph:

haha, i noticed that something was wrong with that graph ages ago but kept on forgetting to mention it...

as far as 20psi at 4000rpm, on a flat road in 4th gear... load up from 3000rpm and defi peak reads a touch over 1.5bar and power fc reads peak revs of 4000rpm

done it about 100 times and it comes the up the same every time, in 3rd gear it would get 20psi at around 4300rpm

[SimonR32]

ps. brockas, now you have seen graphs again are you slitting wrists u didnt go a z

[T04GTR]

with a baby little 35R

he he he jokes...

Michael

lol. i did have 305rwkw.......

[T04GTR]

yes. t04z .84split. poncams and ebay manifold 1.6bar at 4000 loaded up. building good boost from 3400~ loaded.

[wrxkilla]

lol. i did have 305rwkw.......

lol i got busted.

[Brockas]

ps. brockas, now you have seen graphs again are you slitting wrists u didnt go a z

hah not at all champ, besides, at least I still have my GT-R.

The GT35 is physically a smaller turbo. It will spool quicker than a T04Z, unless the fabled Z somehow defies the laws of physics. Considering my car is primarily driven on the track, that's exactly what I need.