Gt35r Vs Garrett T04z - Discussion (just Post In This Thread To Create A Database)

[sky30]

[Jap_Muscle]

So your telling me you know my car better than me and i dont make that sort of power just coz you cant do the same with yours?????

It run 170km/h in the 1/8mile, whats that tell you??

i apologize sky30 if ive offended you i just have never in my time come across a .8 gt35r doing ~400kw @ the wheels.

the .8 is rated @ 600hp i think which is 447kw at the fly.....15% loss in drivetrain and the numbers come to around 370....and thats in a PERFECT senario.

again i guess i am picking at staws here....

170km/h in the 1/8 mile......again not being a smart ass or starting trouble but ill believe it when i see it.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Jap_Muscle

[Jap_Muscle]

nice graph sky......

do you mind me asking how much psi u ran? headwork? and your saying you amde that power in a r32 GTS-4???? 398 @ all 4 wheels?

[Rezlo]

If you've run them back to back where are the plots to back up the claims?

I've compared plots of a properly setup hks t04z on a full house jun 2.7 and it makes a bucketload of power but I wouldnt in any way suggest its more responsive or has better mid-range than the smaller gt35.

Nope, never bothered to put my car on a dyno since the T04z, but, better than a dyno is video proof of the car pushing 2bar by 4300rpm, better yet is actualy having experienced both not just looking at plots on paper that have more veribles than are worth trying to calculate.

[DCIEVE]

Seat of the pants is subjective - its easy to be blown away by an angry power curve, or similarly to be unimpressed by a linear curve.

As keeps coming up - you cant compare loading a car up on the road in 5th gear and achieving an artificially low boost threshold to a power run on the dyno.

ill believe it when i see it.

What is it that you want to see?

Edited April 26, 2009 by DCIEVE

[Rezlo]

Seat of the pants is subjective - its easy to be blown away by an angry power curve, or similarly to be unimpressed by a linear curve.

As keeps coming up - you cant compare loading a car up on the road in 5th gear and achieving an artificially low boost threshold to a power run on the dyno.

Again, once you have some personal experience with the T04z then it would be wise to try compare it. I have owned both, I have used both on the same vehicle and I am saying when properly setup in full twin scroll it spools faster... This is actual experience vs. google -> search.... I would think you as a E-modder should know best that what turbo's do on paper is often not what they actualy do in practice (IE the GT35's even with .86 a/r's making over 600hp)

[DCIEVE]

Come on, you think I havent been in a t04z equipped car?? LOL at e-modder, my car was built in the garage at home - if you want to reduce the discussion to childish insults I'l leave you to it.

Edited April 26, 2009 by DCIEVE

[r33_racer]

geez sky30...thats pretty good power considering....our race car 25/30...pretty worked i might add with all the bits and we only made 385-390rwkw but on about 23-24psi. We run a 1.06 rear.

An extra 10-15rwkws with less boost is a great achievement.

gt35r's are very average imo. Im not a fan, the power comes on pretty quick, which is good, but even near 400kw the car feels slow/dull. A previous setup we had a to4z equivalent in the billet turbo range....a little laggier, full boost around 4800rpm range (about 21psi) Except we were making about 475-480rwkws(whilst wheel spinning mind you), which came on very nicely and obviously the power held right to redline where as the gt35r runs out of power at about 6300rpm atm.

gt35r=dull I think you get numb to the rush of big horsepower as you go higher and higher....I remember when i was 17 and 300hp was a shitload!

Also, im loving this thread, its full of good debate and info. Need more dyno graphs though! Would make for great comparisons.

Edited April 26, 2009 by r33_racer

[Rezlo]

Come on, you think I havent been in a t04z equipped car?? LOL at e-modder, my car was built in the garage at home - if you want to reduce the discussion to childish insults I'l leave you to it.

It was not ment to be an insult, dont take it that way.

All the cars I mention are cars I built in my spare time from home(I am a design engineer not a oil change jokey), unfortunatly we do not have dyno's here that are safe for cars over 300wkw, I have already almost lost a car due to this, all of my tuning/mapping (everything from my carb'd car to the 1200hp M3 ive just finnished) are all done on the street with dual wideband, Kmon & EGT so unfortunatly as much as I would love to give you a dyno plot I do not have the need to drive 1000miles to the closest hub dyno...

Just for interest sakes, was the T04z car you went in full twin scroll and what A/R turbine was it?

[Jap_Muscle]

I still rkn 400kw on a .86 35r is bolllocks

I think i'll be going to4z on my 26\30. I should have a graph in about 2 or 3 weeks.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Jap_Muscle

[Lithium]

I still rkn 400kw on a .86 35r is bolllocks

Gah this kind of thing is frustrating - it makes threads like this turn to crap and kills the usefulness of information from people willing to share. Its a FACT that .82a/r GT3582Rs can make 400kw @ wheels, even on pump gas. It won't happen all by itself, just having a .82a/r GT35R on a motor doesn't make it do 400kw... it just means its possible with the right setup.

You don't appear to realise there is no such thing as a .86a/r GT35R (.86 is a Garrett T25/8 size), and are talking to people who are saying they HAVE made that power - then I think you need to realise that you aren't being very constructive so much as being an empty can.

[Jap_Muscle]

sorry my bad about the .86, what i mean was indeed the .82.

i understand your frustration there lithium but im just asking for proof on these power makings. i think we both know how many dreamers and bullshitters there are these days who claim to make a certain power, but apon close examination is utter crap.

ive seen one 1 graph on a GTS4 R32 which made 398kw @ all 4, all on 20psi.....which i have never heard of. 20psi on a 35r to make 400kw, i cant see it happening. 25psi sounds more likely.

now if sky was using race fuel.....or i dont know some unknown factor we havnt heard of.....maybe it would be possible

r33_racer's setup on the other hand, sounds more realistic. making close to 400kw, race prepped head, 24psi......and its a 1.06 rear.

is it just me or do some things not add up?

like i said guys im not here to judge or insult. im just like everyone else trying to find the best combination for my car with some constructive criticism.

DCIEVE, do you happen to havemore info on your 35r equipped r31? how much psi were u running?

Edited April 27, 2009 by Jap_Muscle

[Angus Smart]

Hey,

Something to add to this thread, I'm looking at going single possibly.

I have a full greddy t88 kit, minus the turbo (as some f**ker pinched it)

I want something around t78 33d in the garrett equivalent, i'd like it to be as responsive as possible but i know its not going to be like twins. Would like split pulse turbo, since the greddy manifold is split tho only uses one large single gate. can modify this if twin gates is a must..

going on a built rb26, ported 270degree 10.8mm lift cams.

[Lithium]

I'll have to see if I can get a hold of one of my mates dyno plots - one has done 380awkw on a GTR and another 399rwkw on an R32 GTSt running an RB30DET. Both cars were limited to the power they made by things other than turbo, had hoped the GTR would get an ECU upgrade (its current one only allows mapping to 1.5bar) and tune for more boost but the car is for sale now.

The highest I have personally sited was a local whose CLAIMED power is 450kw from a .82a/r but I think thats a dyno that is on the happy end of the dyno scale and as such I think the plot is pretty, the car felt more like what I'd call a 400kw @ wheels on your "typical dyno" car. It ran 10.6 on pump gas with full interior in an R33 GTS25t, trapping around the 130mph mark. Had a good power spread, was "all in" by 4300rpm and revved out strongly to ~8300rpm on a stock displacement RB25DET.

[unique1]

It was not ment to be an insult, dont take it that way.

All the cars I mention are cars I built in my spare time from home(I am a design engineer not a oil change jokey), unfortunatly we do not have dyno's here that are safe for cars over 300wkw, I have already almost lost a car due to this, all of my tuning/mapping (everything from my carb'd car to the 1200hp M3 ive just finnished) are all done on the street with dual wideband, Kmon & EGT so unfortunatly as much as I would love to give you a dyno plot I do not have the need to drive 1000miles to the closest hub dyno...

Just for interest sakes, was the T04z car you went in full twin scroll and what A/R turbine was it?

The t04z car he is talking about is mine and its a hks to4z twin scroll running a twin scroll trust manifold, the setup wasnt 100% i must admit, its always had ignition dramas on the setup and will be sorted soon enough as im changing ecus and ignition. I was getting fullboost of 18psi around 4300rpm and has made 585rwhp on that setting on pump too, a conservative tune was around the 560rwhp mark which is how it was when Dcieve went in it. It has always been struggling after 7000rpm due to ignition problems so its got plenty more in it.

I havent been in his 35r equipped car yet because hes too busy workin, but from what ive seen its an animal and should smash into the mid 10s easy at the drags when he gets the chance and can keep the axles together.

Also the qoute by r33 racer on power is very true. The t04z is an animal of a turbo and i went in a mates 32 gtr the other week with 430rwhp and it felt like a slug lol, back in the day 250rwhp was crazy. Now i have a rb26/30 with 3076r and its a pure slug i cant stand it, im going to upgrade asap

[bigmikespec]

Hey,

Something to add to this thread, I'm looking at going single possibly.

I have a full greddy t88 kit, minus the turbo (as some f**ker pinched it)

I want something around t78 33d in the garrett equivalent, i'd like it to be as responsive as possible but i know its not going to be like twins. Would like split pulse turbo, since the greddy manifold is split tho only uses one large single gate. can modify this if twin gates is a must..

going on a built rb26, ported 270degree 10.8mm lift cams.

I remember in a very old HPi mag when I was just a dreamer that one of my favourite cars was a Top Secret R34 GTR time attack/circuit car which retained the standard capacity with a T78-33d and I just thought it was wicked!

Sorry, no real advice, get a T78-29d they sound crazy and should not be too bad in terms of getting onto boost depending on the rest of your set up.

Mike

PS: then take me for a spin so I can feel how cool it is and then I will get one too

[sky30]

i apologize sky30 if ive offended you i just have never in my time come across a .8 gt35r doing ~400kw @ the wheels.

the .8 is rated @ 600hp i think which is 447kw at the fly.....15% loss in drivetrain and the numbers come to around 370....and thats in a PERFECT senario.

again i guess i am picking at staws here....

170km/h in the 1/8 mile......again not being a smart ass or starting trouble but ill believe it when i see it.

Sounds like you just got you head stuck in the sand mate, you reckon you will beleive it when you see it, then you see it and still say its bull s**t.

Just coz you cant build a motor with the right parts to make that power doesnt mean it can be done, you have been told by several people 400rwkw can be acheived with .82.

My dyno was Rwkw not 4wkw, and running 20psi on BP ultimate.

1/8mile Timeslip with MPH to back up the power it makes below (works out to 134-136MPH over 1/4 mile), so maybe its time you pulled your head out of the sand and got the right parts in your motor.

[Rezlo]

I still rkn 400kw on a .86 35r is bolllocks

Did you see the dyno I posted? only a few off 400wkw... 400wkw is not hard on a GT35... 1/4 of it is in the turbo, 3/4 of it is in the setup of the motor and the mapping.

unique1,

What AR is your HKS T04z's turbine? Does your HKS have the turbine split right to the blade or stop half to 3/4 way? Seen both now.... And full boost by 4300rpm isnt bad for a incorectly working setup! My biggest improvment to my car was when I took the time to get the timing and fuel 100% perfect between 3000-4000rpm so the transision was smooth and progresive

[unique1]

its a 0.81 and i dont know about the turbine split i cant say i have looked that closely and the turbo is bolted to the motor at the moment so i cant check. The motor is a 2.7L jun kit and everything is aftermarket internally in block and head, pretty major porting work too and big cams. Ive heard of better response on rb26s than that but yet to see proof myself.

[DCIEVE]

DCIEVE, do you happen to havemore info on your 35r equipped r31? how much psi were u running?

All the details are on the preceeding pages. I even have a video of its one pass down the strip but the quality is so shite you can't see the time board. Unfortunately all my stuff including the car is in storage or I would have scanned the time slip - but no doubt you would have claimed BS on that as well

As people will keep telling you, its all in the set-up and you obviously have some issues (or have taken shortcuts) with yours.

It was not ment to be an insult, dont take it that way.

All the cars I mention are cars I built in my spare time from home(I am a design engineer not a oil change jokey), unfortunatly we do not have dyno's here that are safe for cars over 300wkw, I have already almost lost a car due to this, all of my tuning/mapping (everything from my carb'd car to the 1200hp M3 ive just finnished) are all done on the street with dual wideband, Kmon & EGT so unfortunatly as much as I would love to give you a dyno plot I do not have the need to drive 1000miles to the closest hub dyno...

Just for interest sakes, was the T04z car you went in full twin scroll and what A/R turbine was it?

No probs, for a while I thought I was the only one here - design engineer/fea monkey that is.