Gt35r Vs Garrett T04z - Discussion (just Post In This Thread To Create A Database)

[DCIEVE]

To save other people the fun of searching for housings I've found the following (t4 1.06ar twin scroll exh housing to suit gt35).

full race 395us + 169us shipping

atp 395us + ? shipping

gcg ~ 800au + shipping no stock till Jan 2010

On the BW vs Garrett debate, I've had a good read of supra/evo forums in the US, in particular comparisons by geoff from full race and come to the conclusion that the bw in almost all cases match the performance of equivalent sized garretts and where there is an advantage, it's very small. So it appears the main reason for there popularity is the low cost. Given I've already got the Garrett core I'll stick with it for now, but in the event I were to start again I think I'd seriously consider the bw.

Simon, Nytsky is already talking about ditching the 3076 for something larger. I'm not in the least part unhappy with the performance of the gt35 (the mani is another story) and if the twin scroll combo can bring it on a little earlier all the better. You've got an excel plot of my power curve, if you can find a 3076 curve which delivers better average power betwen 5 and 8k I'll consider it

i think a 3076r with a 1 housing would be pretty awesome suited as simon suggested. With correct setup in a lightweight r31 it would be nuts, mine seems to be abit better now with new exhuast and in a lighter car i could see it be pretty damn good (ill find out soon enough). Ill have to take you for a spin and show you how it goes and response and then u can decide for yourself and mine isnt even sorted properly. Surely a 450hp setup with awesome response would beat a 500hp setup with a fair bit more lag on a track.

This is the first time I've heard you say something even remotely positive about your 3076! If you really think this then I expect to see the 3076 on your gtr and a t04z in the for sale section

[SimonR32]

Simon, Nytsky is already talking about ditching the 3076 for something larger. I'm not in the least part unhappy with the performance of the gt35 (the mani is another story) and if the twin scroll combo can bring it on a little earlier all the better. You've got an excel plot of my power curve, if you can find a 3076 curve which delivers better average power betwen 5 and 8k I'll consider it

to be honest the grass is looking greener for NYTSKY at the moment it seems... but as you know it doesnt always work out that way

if you want a better average power between 5-8k get a t04z if you want 500ish at the wheels with awesome response i would personally go a 3076r. sloths car changed from being a laggy cop with a 3582r to a weapon with a 3076r

danny from JPC just had his 2.7l rb25 tuned yesterday by sean to make 500.2 hubber hp... i think that is running a 3076r but not 100% sure

[unique1]

haha the 3076 will be in the gtr on simons old rb30 donk i bought from him, got it freshened up and its gonna be fun with a nice light chassis. With the good motor i aint aiming for 500hp like u said u were im aiming for alot more so i need something bigger, hence the t04z

Edited October 29, 2009 by unique1

[msnismo]

Dave aka T04GTR just said don't be weak, go for the BW

Here is a photo of his BW on his GTR (trial fitting, on old car)... its S372R... purchased from Bullseye in the states... its the equivalent of HKS modifying Garrett turbos.. Bullseye do the same with BW's

P.S got rid of my GT35 (0.63 rear) for a T04z.. best decision ever!!

[discopotato03]

I finally got around to digging out that GT3576 large frame diesel turbo because I think some of you need to see what a man sized GT35 turbo looks like .

For now I have pics of a GT37 and an 82mm GT40 compressor but will snap the big lug itself tomorrow .

Note the slight differences in wheels from the different frame size turbos , the GT37 one is the same wheel used in Garretts small frame GT3076R/GT3037 56T but being from a big frame unit the back spacing is different and so is its fastening method . It has the full length hexagon on its nose and its known as a threaded bore wheel meaning no jamb nut to clamp it to the turbine shaft .

The GT40 compressor is a bit mongreloided because it came out of R33 racers GT3082R/GT3040R and had suffered oil starvation and siezed the turbine side bearing race friction welding itself to the turbine shaft . Anyway its backspacing is different and it has the remnants of a hexagon on its nose but not threaded bore as they use a nut to hold it in place .

The full sized GT40 will have a larger diameter backplate and diffuser section than a small frame GT3582R does and the sheer size of its turbine housing/center housing/compressor housing would dwarf a regular GT3582R .

More tomorrow , cheers A .

[DCIEVE]

P.S got rid of my GT35 (0.63 rear) for a T04z.. best decision ever!!

Your comparing a gt35 choked by a .63 housing with a t04z? That argument has been done to death over the last 25 pages

haha the 3076 will be in the gtr on simons old rb30 donk i bought from him, got it freshened up and its gonna be fun with a nice light chassis. With the good motor i aint aiming for 500hp like u said u were im aiming for alot more so i need something bigger, hence the t04z

But by your logic you should be using a gt35 then

if you want a better average power between 5-8k get a t04z if you want 500ish at the wheels with awesome response i would personally go a 3076r. sloths car changed from being a laggy cop with a 3582r to a weapon with a 3076r

I would like to repeat the comparison once it's up and going, I think the results will be a little different to what you saw comparing your plots with Pauls.

I'm not aiming for 650rwhp or 450rwhp - the 35r is the middle ground.

[FineLine]

Dave aka T04GTR just said don't be weak, go for the BW

Here is a photo of his BW on his GTR (trial fitting, on old car)... its S372R... purchased from Bullseye in the states... its the equivalent of HKS modifying Garrett turbos.. Bullseye do the same with BW's

P.S got rid of my GT35 (0.63 rear) for a T04z.. best decision ever!!

And your lap times went from what to what?

[discopotato03]

Heavy lug of a thing , this GT3576 wasn't quite as big in the comp housing as I thought but it is significant .

The backplate /diffuser diameter was 4mm larger than the GT25BB adapter ring but on the OD it does make a difference at that diameter .

The turbine housing is big/heavy/wide as you'd expect a GT40 1.17 A/R one with a twin inlet T4 International flange to be .

The other turbo in some of these pics is my GT3037/GT3076R 52T for comparison . It is relevant because most reckon that Garrett GT3582R units use the same turbine housing castings as a GT3076R and I reckon its why the GT35R turbine maps don't look so good .

Really I think trying to compare A std GT3582R to a To4Z or BW is a bit much because the Z and I reckon the BW's are large frame turbos . The Z is actually a real bitzer of large frame center section/BB conversion/bearing housing modded to suit old T4 turbine housings/a 60-1 iron backplate machined to suit the T04R compressor /ditto the T04S comp housing in Garrett marketed form . It's really a baby T51R with a P trim turbine and a bit less compressor and housing . Still all old T4 era aero tech . As you can see here Garrett do make big frame GT35 turbos based on the large frame center section and if you add the large frame BB internals thats about what a T51R BB is internally .

I don't know if Garretts large frame plain bearing turbos are cheap like the BW's may be but I don't think their performance would be lacking .

Also , nearly forgot , I hope you noticed that the GT40 turbine housing is twin scroll and twin integral waste gated . I think there is a smaller A/R version something like 1.05 A/R and that would be more suitable on an RB than 1.17 .

Cheers A .

[msnismo]

Your comparing a gt35 choked by a .63 housing with a t04z? That argument has been done to death over the last 25 pages

Not comparing.. but the power delivery is alot different is what I meant... at the end of the day the HP difference between the two is what around 100HP depending upon what rear housing is used?

My lil old GT35R made 350rwkw before the cat and exhaust limitations were reached. Turbo may have had more in it, but Il never know. The T04Z was sitting there so I decided to change over.

And your lap times went from what to what?

They are alot better (few secs each track thus far), but we have changed the suspension setup and a couple of other things at the same time, so I can't compare based on just the turbo swap . Although I am losing alot less boost between gear changes with the T04Z than with the GT35R... everyone that has driven the car in both forms has commented on how noticeable the difference is.

[DCIEVE]

Beating a dead horse here a little, but if you were losing boost on gear changes with a .63 reared gt35 something was seriously wrong!

[r33_racer]

I think that same thing was mentioned here before....to4z dont seem to lose as much boost as gt35's... I can vouch that even a gt35r when it falls off boost, in tight spots it can be a bit slow to build up again, slower then expected.

[Lithium]

^ Agreed, I know a couple of people who have used .63 GT35Rs on their 1.8litre FWD track cars with traction being a much bigger problem than lag haha. One of them have changed from a 1.06a/r housing because THAT had issues with lag between gears. Despite that, it would run around 140mph within the 1/4 mile though haha

[r33_racer]

When we ran the GT30, the one discopotato is referring too, there was next to no lag at all...or so it felt...it came on really fast and really hard. With the gt35r it comes on just as hard, but nowhere near as fast....tight parts where you are on and off the throttle its not as good as you would expect.

[Brockas]

I would like to repeat the comparison once it's up and going, I think the results will be a little different to what you saw comparing your plots with Pauls.

I'm not aiming for 650rwhp or 450rwhp - the 35r is the middle ground.

I'm about to bolt on a T04Z with .81 rear housing, so we will have a direct comparison, on the same dyno with the same engine, between a GT35R and T04Z.

Should be finished by next week.

[SimonR32]

is it split pulse rear brockas?

good work my man, come to the dark (aka fast) side

[Brockas]

Haven't ordered it yet, but will do on Monday. Should be here by Wednesday, tuned Friday.

I'm still wary about it. Have a feeling the extra lag wont be worth the small increase in top end. We'll see what it makes though...

[jonn]

I'm keen to see how the T04 goes Brockas. I've been thinking about one of them for mine.

[Lithium]

This will be interesting - do you have a dyno plot in storage somewhere which could be overlayed with the T04Z one to see how much more lag etc you get on the same engine spec?

Any reason for going the T04Z over something like a GT4088R? Shame the GTX-series turbos aren't out for a bit, I have a feeling if Garrett do a GTX3582R T04Zs will lose a bit of their edge

[SilverECR33]

Turbo characteristics are gonna be different on the 30 than 25 or 26 setups. what about the hybrids. im throwin up ideas at the moment of ideal setups to maxiumize HP within scope of tracking and some street. and so far ive scaled down to these 2;

GT35R X82 S.S 25/30 Final 3.9

To4Z x106 T.S 26/30 Final 3.5

Oh ps. the TO4Z in the Equation will be the HKS item.

Edited November 16, 2009 by SilverECR33

[SimonR32]

This will be interesting - do you have a dyno plot in storage somewhere which could be overlayed with the T04Z one to see how much more lag etc you get on the same engine spec?

Any reason for going the T04Z over something like a GT4088R? Shame the GTX-series turbos aren't out for a bit, I have a feeling if Garrett do a GTX3582R T04Zs will lose a bit of their edge

he has runs stored on two different dynos with the 35R, one roller and one hubber!