Gt35r Vs Garrett T04z - Discussion (just Post In This Thread To Create A Database)

[discopotato03]

Those GT3267's and GT3271's are nothing special , you could look at them as a GT3071R with a diesel spec GT32 turbine and a large frame bush bearing center .

I won't argue the philosophy of why the authorities go ape over midified GTR's , for me it's enough that they do .

I doubt arguing with them would get you too far either .

My last comments on twins is that it's easy to make them look std and the wastegating system is simple and effective .

A twin scroll single is the next best thing BUT the manifold has to be a good one and the wastegates well set up .

The turbo itself has to be suitably sized and preferably with a factory developed twin scroll turbine housing , there are no generic TS GT housings for petrol GT30 and GT35 based BB turbos ATM . The model specific Evo 10 one will be a first .

Before spending serious money talk to Geoff at FR about Evo's and GTR's , could prove interesting and note from E4 on they had TS turbos factory .

Your calls I'm out .

[tommis85]

Well my Rb26 is just getting some finishing touches to having a GT35 fitted, and the car is 90% used at QR, so you can always come out for a passenger ride...

(I'm going from an apexi single turbo that is actually smaller than the GT30. We make 300kw and its massively responsive. It has been fantastic at QR, so will see what the more laggier GT35 will be like, but of course we'll make an extra 50awkw...+)

Ah Michael this is a small world indeed. Can't miss a car like yours and I don't know why it didn't click earlier. I got plenty of footage of you taking it sideways around the corner leading onto the straight. I don't think my GTR would have had much on yours - you were going quite well. Last time I went they also had passenger rounds at the end of the day so maybe I could come for a spin and see what a GTR is meant to go like!!!!

Actually Michael, I'll probably have to get in touch with you seeing that you race at the same track as I do and also with, what I believe is a non-stroked 26?? Will have to see how you go when it's all ready! Might help me in deciding on what to get for mine as right now it's a back and forth between 30 and 35

As for legality, I'm going to contact Queensland Transport and see what sort of regulations they have for twin to single turbo conversions and mod plates. Usually it's simply a matter of staying within the mod plate code and complying with safety and emission standards....which is important for me and it's a daily driver and not a track car like Michael's.

[tommis85]

Those GT3267's and GT3271's are nothing special , you could look at them as a GT3071R with a diesel spec GT32 turbine and a large frame bush bearing center .

Mate there are just too many choices and opinions. Maybe I should just do what most people do and that is:

A. do the research to the best of you ability and then buy a turbo and "build and tune the engine around it"

B. tuck your tail between your legs and buy a set of twins and conform with what is a GTR.

....and have some money left over to put into other areas like suspension and cooling etc.

But seriously guys, thanks for the help and thoughts and opinions. Gives me, and all those others that just read this thread, plenty to think about if they're on the same upgrade path.

[DCIEVE]

Those GT3267's and GT3271's are nothing special , you could look at them as a GT3071R with a diesel spec GT32 turbine and a large frame bush bearing center .

I won't argue the philosophy of why the authorities go ape over midified GTR's , for me it's enough that they do .

I doubt arguing with them would get you too far either .

My last comments on twins is that it's easy to make them look std and the wastegating system is simple and effective .

A twin scroll single is the next best thing BUT the manifold has to be a good one and the wastegates well set up .

The turbo itself has to be suitably sized and preferably with a factory developed twin scroll turbine housing , there are no generic TS GT housings for petrol GT30 and GT35 based BB turbos ATM . The model specific Evo 10 one will be a first .

Before spending serious money talk to Geoff at FR about Evo's and GTR's , could prove interesting and note from E4 on they had TS turbos factory .

Your calls I'm out .

I dropped FR an email and was told they have a t4 1.06 ts exhaust housing to suit the 3582... any thoughts? obv this would go together with one of there ts manifolds.

cheers

[juggernaut1]

Deceive,

This is what that setup goes like on an EJ25 (Subaru 2.5 litre). 442 ftlb by 4100 rpm and 496 hp at 6500. Sounds good to me.

And this is what it looks like.

[juggernaut1]

Further to the above - if you are considering a FR manifold you may want to confirm whether it is a straight bolt on fit for you car.

I'm fitting a FR TS manifold to my s15 and I've had to have a bracket made up to lower the aircon compressor 30mm and have had to relocate the power steering resevoir further around the strut tower and make up new ps lines. The 2 gates are also an extremely tight fit.

I also had to open up the flange plate on the manifold to match to the exhaust ports and tidy up the manifold collector a little with a die grinder. If I was to do it again (or the manifold cracks) I would give Kyle a call at 6Boost to make me up a manifold as it would also suit the right hand drive layout whereas the FR manifolds are primarily designed around left hand drive cars. Having owned both types of manifolds (but not tested both) I prefer the 6Boost manfold as the flange plate is the correct size and the tube welded onto the flange plate on the 6Boost manifold is flared to suit the port flange size.

My 2 cents

[tommis85]

Juggernaut1,

So those results in the above post are with the 3582 running a 1.06 ts bum end? I agree - that sounds like a fun car to drive indeed!

So, judging form the graphs, I'd be safe to run a .83 or 1.06 on my RB26? Sorry, I think they come in either .8 or .83 - I'm not on the Garrett site at the moment.

[tommis85]

Correction, it's 0.82 lol, so none of the ones I listed

[juggernaut1]

Juggernaut1,

So those results in the above post are with the 3582 running a 1.06 ts bum end? I agree - that sounds like a fun car to drive indeed!

So, judging form the graphs, I'd be safe to run a .83 or 1.06 on my RB26? Sorry, I think they come in either .8 or .83 - I'm not on the Garrett site at the moment.

Yes, that dyno print out was with a T4 TS 1.06 rear. Incidently, that WRX set a lap record with that setup - stock bottom end also. And in doing so also outgunned the new R35 GTR.

If a 2.5 litre subi can develop that sort of torque at those rpm I'm guessing the TS 1.06 rear would be well placed on an RB26.

And if the WRX results could be duplicated on an RB26 I don't know why you would bother with a smaller rear housing IMO. But thats the beauty of twin scroll - you can run larger than normal housings and not suffer slower spool like that of an open housing.

Edited December 11, 2008 by juggernaut1

[tommis85]

Ok excellent...well, maybe, just maybe, it looks like that I have narrowed my turbo choices down quite considerably. I guess I'll have to run a external wastegate with this one which I was trying to avoid as I'm a tightass

I'll get onto my mechanic and see what he can get in for me as far as twin scroll goes. If the turbo is twin scroll then how does it perform at the high end? I guess it has the 1.06 rear for that so it shouldn't choke the engine one single bit, or?

How does the turbo kick in? From the graph it looks like it's a nice gradual curve as opposed to a T04 non-TS style thump?

[juggernaut1]

Ok excellent...well, maybe, just maybe, it looks like that I have narrowed my turbo choices down quite considerably. I guess I'll have to run a external wastegate with this one which I was trying to avoid as I'm a tightass

Correction - you will need to run two external wastegates - one for each bank of collectors which feed into each scroll of the turbo. Like this sr20 manifold:

Edited December 11, 2008 by juggernaut1

[juggernaut1]

[tommis85]

Ah ok yes that makes sense. Looks nice (and expensive!) lol

So, with twin scroll you can safely go for a larger ratio of 1.06 while without the twin scroll you shouldn't go over .82 and possibly use the 0.61 to 0.62 sizes OR, even step down by a turbo size? What would you say it would be equal to (sorry, I'm not too good with compressor maps - am about halfway through the Garrett Site 101 to 105 on turbo sizing)

LOL - gotta start somewhere haha! I've never had to do this sort of research before as I've never had to upgrade nor had the money to do a big conversion like that.

[DCIEVE]

Further to the above - if you are considering a FR manifold you may want to confirm whether it is a straight bolt on fit for you car.

I'm fitting a FR TS manifold to my s15 and I've had to have a bracket made up to lower the aircon compressor 30mm and have had to relocate the power steering resevoir further around the strut tower and make up new ps lines. The 2 gates are also an extremely tight fit.

I also had to open up the flange plate on the manifold to match to the exhaust ports and tidy up the manifold collector a little with a die grinder. If I was to do it again (or the manifold cracks) I would give Kyle a call at 6Boost to make me up a manifold as it would also suit the right hand drive layout whereas the FR manifolds are primarily designed around left hand drive cars. Having owned both types of manifolds (but not tested both) I prefer the 6Boost manfold as the flange plate is the correct size and the tube welded onto the flange plate on the 6Boost manifold is flared to suit the port flange size.

My 2 cents

Thanks for your input. I currently have a 3582 .82 on a 6boost manifold, response, power are all very good (refer to earlier posts in this thread) but boost control is a real problem - believe it or not the current build was a result of similar boost control issues with an internally gated xr6 turbo so I'm essentially back to square 1 after more than a year of building the thing. Seeing as the manifold needs to come off regardless I'm looking at options - which is where the FR stuff has come in.

I dont want to go with another 6boost manifold, but over 4k for a fr manifold isnt appealing if they arent perfect either.

[wrxkilla]

Thanks for your input. I currently have a 3582 .82 on a 6boost manifold, response, power are all very good (refer to earlier posts in this thread) but boost control is a real problem - believe it or not the current build was a result of similar boost control issues with an internally gated xr6 turbo so I'm essentially back to square 1 after more than a year of building the thing. Seeing as the manifold needs to come off regardless I'm looking at options - which is where the FR stuff has come in.

I dont want to go with another 6boost manifold, but over 4k for a fr manifold isnt appealing if they arent perfect either.

you had probs with the 6boost manifold? the collector style one?

Wastegate mounted nice and short for good control? What wastegate and spring did you run and what level of boost did you try and acheive?

just interested....

[wrxkilla]

Ah Michael this is a small world indeed. Can't miss a car like yours and I don't know why it didn't click earlier. I got plenty of footage of you taking it sideways around the corner leading onto the straight. I don't think my GTR would have had much on yours - you were going quite well. Last time I went they also had passenger rounds at the end of the day so maybe I could come for a spin and see what a GTR is meant to go like!!!!

Actually Michael, I'll probably have to get in touch with you seeing that you race at the same track as I do and also with, what I believe is a non-stroked 26?? Will have to see how you go when it's all ready! Might help me in deciding on what to get for mine as right now it's a back and forth between 30 and 35

As for legality, I'm going to contact Queensland Transport and see what sort of regulations they have for twin to single turbo conversions and mod plates. Usually it's simply a matter of staying within the mod plate code and complying with safety and emission standards....which is important for me and it's a daily driver and not a track car like Michael's.

yep mate, mine is an rb26 still. like I say, 'only' 290-300kw atw. Shows you can be quick at the circuit without 350-400kw GTR. But given mine really doesnt see too much road duties at all these days, I thought why not go for some more ponies....

Hopefully see you back out there in the new year, more than happy to show you how the GT35 goes at the first Timeattack day of the year... (Hopefully goood lol)

[tommis85]

yep mate, mine is an rb26 still. like I say, 'only' 290-300kw atw. Shows you can be quick at the circuit without 350-400kw GTR. But given mine really doesnt see too much road duties at all these days, I thought why not go for some more ponies....

Hopefully see you back out there in the new year, more than happy to show you how the GT35 goes at the first Timeattack day of the year... (Hopefully goood lol)

Yeh that would be good if I could make it down there.

Well, 300awkw equals about 402 horses at the wheels. My GTR being stock probably only puts down about 220 horses at the back after the other horses that make up 280hp have had their legs cut off in the transfer case. So yeh, 400hp at the wheels would be quite a step up indeed!!!!

Hopefully I'll have my new turbo(s) by then because I definitely won't be racing with them again - it's just a bit too risky with 13y/o ceramic wheels!

[juggernaut1]

Thanks for your input. I currently have a 3582 .82 on a 6boost manifold, response, power are all very good (refer to earlier posts in this thread) but boost control is a real problem - believe it or not the current build was a result of similar boost control issues with an internally gated xr6 turbo so I'm essentially back to square 1 after more than a year of building the thing. Seeing as the manifold needs to come off regardless I'm looking at options - which is where the FR stuff has come in.

I dont want to go with another 6boost manifold, but over 4k for a fr manifold isnt appealing if they arent perfect either.

Typically I see GT35's with the wastegate welded on the turbine housing with the 6Boost manifold - I guess this placement must assist the wastegate perform its task - was yours done in this fashion.

In any case if you go twin scroll you will be using two gates which should alleviate any boost related issues you've alluded to with the 6Boost.

[r33_racer]

If you suffer from that problem, then that fix helps boost control. WG straight off turbine housing is ideal for boost control as its in the exhaust flow path. The merge collector style manifolds flow so well that with larger turbos and minimal restrictions the exhaust gas virtually bypasses wastegate/s unless they are right in the firing line. Ive had both setups and noticed no difference other then one providing perfect boost control and the other not so much...

[tommis85]

Guys,

After doing a lot of reading on this site I think I may have come up with a nice turbo to suit my power goals and budget. I'm thinking of going with the internally gated GT3271 which really appears to be a nice mid range application for the stock stroke RB26.

What do you guys say? From what people have said on here, this turbo should have nice results.

Thanks,

Tom