Group A Race Car For The Road.

[Betz]

Guys after 2years of cantankerous ownership and the joy of daily driving my r32 GTR my original plans are soon to commence.

I have retired the GTR of its commute duties and am at planning stage of its restoration.

My goals are to have my car rebuilt to the pinnical of its racing heritage and be civil enough to drive on the street.

Big ask I am sure however considering the advances 20years on its possible.

Budget is open ended but I wont be be sourcing the likes of <insert Jap tuning shop name here> titanium valve cover cap screw protectors..etc

Engine:

Goal will be the 600+ engine hp and would like to use turbos no bigger than the largest housings on Le Mans based GTR's altho I can be swayed

While not fixed to exact specs and stroker kits are ok, I want the engine to reflect the higher end of Nissan/Group A development of the rb26

I was thinking;

Nur crate motor (or rebuild my 05U with N1 or forged internals)

Custom Billit turbo T04B/T3 turbines (RS581 sizings)

appropriate headwok/porting/manifolds

Trust peII exaust

will not be using a PFC - ecu is open

Dry sump is an option

supporting systems such as fuel/cooling?

What I am asking to the SAU community is advise on a practical and rounded resto of my car, its been a while since I rebuilt one.

I have the ability to do alot of stuff myself and I know what I want to achieve, I'd like help cutting through the cheeze associated with jap muscle cars and just have a good tuff GTR with no bullshit

Street use (prolly weekend only), some track work, not realy interested in drag events.

Cheers!

Other crap not thought through much yet

Drivetrain:

Since I will only thrash it occationally on the track and only need the ego on the street new diffs, a twin plate and maybe a ppg box after a break the stockie is all I'll need?

Chassis

regular bracing, a street cage, the bilstien/whiteline kit from group buy, some LMGT4's and good brembos?

Interior

I'll make myself at home

[Roy]

Sounds like an interesting project. But an important thing to remember is that the GpA cars were compromised by rules and regulations. If you are going to build up your GTR then i think you are best to just use the modern parts and build a neat car like many of the guys on SAU already own.

Short of going crazy in the stripping and caging of the car...then there isnt much else GpA you would be doing to your car. Especially if you are only looking at using Whiteline based suspension.

Go a basic turbo upgrade. Get a good gearbox, beef up the brakes and suspension and spend some time on cooling and you have your all round performer...after all that is the strength of the GTR

On a side note there are street GTRs in Vic that are quicker then the Gibson cars, and they run RE55s, not slicks and have air con and full interiors

[Betz]

Am happy to rose joint, dry sump etc, but yea its prolly a bit overkill for 600hp package?

[

[Roy]

Not sure its warranted when its occassionally a track car using street tyres and basic suspension tuning.

But its your car so its important that its built to your liking

[Betz]

k, so soft option of off the shelf upgrades is fine for the cars layout,

how about my power expectations?

I know people pull big arse figures from thier engines and 600+ hp at the fly isnt over the top, is getting that figure from what I detailed gunna break my balls?

I'm not up for stupidly exotic methods of reaching that power and want it managable and on tap any time I choose to use it. heh

[R31Nismoid]

Go down to Racepace, ask for the 370rwkw setup.

Drop car off

* time passes *

Pickup car & pay bill

Easy

Just some points in relation to yours

- Crate motors that still have flaws, better off getting a properly built motor if you want it to last.

- Custom turbos of the old design when there is a brilliant turbo out now for that power (the good ole -5)

- Dry sump is a waste of money

- PFC is the best choice, why wouldnt it be an option?

- Manifolds aren't needed

The GrpA days did well for what they had/knew at the time.

However 20 years has done a lot, and the level of todays motors, parts/turbo tech etc etc would be nothing on what it was back in those days.

GTR's would be even faster (as would all other competitors) if they had/knew what people do now.

600hp is a walk in the park these days, if its done right.

Cheers

[Swiper the Fox]

Go down to Racepace, ask for the 370rwkw setup.

Drop car off

* time passes *

Pickup car & pay bill

Easy

Just some points in relation to yours

- Crate motors that still have flaws, better off getting a properly built motor if you want it to last.

- Custom turbos of the old design when there is a brilliant turbo out now for that power (the good ole -5)

- Dry sump is a waste of money

- PFC is the best choice, why wouldnt it be an option?

- Manifolds aren't needed

The GrpA days did well for what they had/knew at the time.

However 20 years has done a lot, and the level of todays motors, parts/turbo tech etc etc would be nothing on what it was back in those days.

GTR's would be even faster (as would all other competitors) if they had/knew what people do now.

600hp is a walk in the park these days, if its done right.

Cheers

x 2

but Ash please refer to them as engines not motors.

Edited November 26, 2008 by DiRTgarage

[Betz]

heh, I expected that

370kw ist realy 600hp tho, 100hp in driveline soak?

k,

- can the crate motor idea, is the 05U ok or should I invest in 24U block? is grouting worth it?

- wouldount RS581 spec housings with billet turbo bb cores be similar to HKS2530's?

- dun need dry sump, but I have worked in motorsport and like my gilmer drive

- PFC is fitted and has the annoying intermittent miss/fart and it shits me to tears.

- ok, I'm vain enough to ensure that when the engine is rebuilt it will look atleast a little bit pimp and can justify the money as it atleast in theory will help make more power.

Last car I restoed was a XT GT Falcon and 350 - 400hp was kinda hard to get back in the day.

[acsplit]

ok you could restore it to grp A spec (noisy, clunky over complicated and making no more power than decent built gt-r's in melbourne. (with a stock looking engine bay.

p.s I work on a grpA GT-R and no offence I love it to death but they are examples of how not to modify a GT-R.

15 years of further development has proven this

[DCIEVE]

Go down to Racepace, ask for the 370rwkw setup.

Drop car off

* time passes *

Pickup car & pay bill

Easy

couldnt think of a less interesting way to do it, half the fun is in the build.

[R31Nismoid]

^^ ye but if you don't know how to put together a 600HP RB26, nor what parts are/aren't needed, what works/doesnt together - why try and reinvent the wheel when there is someone know has already done the R&D?

The parts listed are very dated, and a lot unnecessary so ye... yes its boring... but at least you'll have something you KNOW works and in a reasonable time frame rather than pottering in your backyard for over 12months (like i did lol)

If you were building a 300rwkw RB26, then ye go ahead, dont need a lot of R&D and special work done for one to hold together considering stock motors go ok for a fair while @ that power

600hp = 440kw, so around 370rwkw, near enough.

[unique1]

couldnt think of a less interesting way to do it, half the fun is in the build.

come on cheque book racing is where its at nick

i couldnt imagine the price at the end and how long u gotta wait, i'd rather do it myself and enjoy it, sometimes its annoying doing stuff but at the end of the build u will get 100 times more satisfaction and u know whats what if u need to modify something or adjust things.

[Swiper the Fox]

come on cheque book racing is where its at nick

i couldnt imagine the price at the end and how long u gotta wait, i'd rather do it myself and enjoy it, sometimes its annoying doing stuff but at the end of the build u will get 100 times more satisfaction and u know whats what if u need to modify something or adjust things.

yeah Brad i agree...but have seen a lot of people loose a lot of money, time and eventually sight of what they tried to achieve when taking on a build. No offence to the thread starter but the nature of some of the things asked and what has been stated appears a little green. Time, money and a lot of heartache can be saved by swallowing pride and allowing someone well versed in building these cars to take the reigns and produce a car that will be enjoyed long before a slow and painful build-up would take to achieve. One 20K engine blow-up may take all the fun out of it in an instant.

this post is not meant to offend or upset anyone it just gives another angle...i for one are proof the self builds work but for some people they may be better off to outsource it.

[Betz]

Green?

I am a fitter/machinist, I prolly should have mentioned that.

I am fully aware of what making a mistake could mean, I am not totally half arseing this

I have often found that its not very often that people will do as thorough job as I would do myself, hence my car is off the road for its upgrades rathur than contract a shop to do it for me at a list price.

jeeez be a bit more creative.

[SysLink67]

So, you know all the fundamentals from your past exp but your goal of a Group A GTR as a benchmark / standard is abit dated.

From my exp first have your goal HP / KW ATW, then type of application ie drift , drag, street / track etc etc then driveablity ie Lumpyass bump sticks ( cams ) can give you the shits at idle.

Research your turbos with your consideration of application. Ie Single top mount TZ04 etc etc for a dyno queen ( lag monster ) or you want more responsive twin turbo low mount config etc etc....

Reliability - engine built for 900HP but limited at 600HP

cams match your porting in head / exhaust / manifolds etc etc turbo spool / response.....

brakes to stop the f&*ker....

uprated Diff , drivetrain , gear box

stroker kit or 26 built with high rev application crank 10,000rpm tomie / jun fully balanced etc etc can't remeber

anyways I'm sure im just stating what you already know.

rob

Green?

I am a fitter/machinist, I prolly should have mentioned that.

I am fully aware of what making a mistake could mean, I am not totally half arseing this

I have often found that its not very often that people will do as thorough job as I would do myself, hence my car is off the road for its upgrades rathur than contract a shop to do it for me at a list price.

jeeez be a bit more creative.

[unique1]

yeah Brad i agree...but have seen a lot of people loose a lot of money, time and eventually sight of what they tried to achieve when taking on a build. No offence to the thread starter but the nature of some of the things asked and what has been stated appears a little green. Time, money and a lot of heartache can be saved by swallowing pride and allowing someone well versed in building these cars to take the reigns and produce a car that will be enjoyed long before a slow and painful build-up would take to achieve. One 20K engine blow-up may take all the fun out of it in an instant.

this post is not meant to offend or upset anyone it just gives another angle...i for one are proof the self builds work but for some people they may be better off to outsource it.

lol paul alot of that sounds like a build i did and i learnt a hell of alot and never regret doing all the stuff myself, it may have cost money to fix problems and i shouldnt have started on a damn expensive engine setup but its well worth it as ive just completed another engine build myself and about to start a third, it saves money in the long run if u have the willingness to learn and someone u can talk to on a regular basis for info if u become stuck at any point. The funny bit is i had mates who said bugger that and paid a shop to do theres and they end up with more problems than i did and the shops are supposed to have done it before.

If i didnt have the knowledge to do it myself i would definately send it to you though. Ill send u a pm regarding some info on head porting now i come to think of it.

[BBGTR]

Can't believe I'm doing this but there's no secrets I guess....

2.6 Litre Engine - RACEPACE Stage 1 Engine with circuit sump

Power FC ECU - Yep I hate the random stutter - but it's essentially factory in driveability terms - brilliant.

CAM Gears

SARD 800cc Injectors

Garrett 2560R -5 Turbo Chargers

HKS Heavy Duty Actuators

HKS Stainless Steel Split Dump Pipes

HKS Type S 16 Row Oil Cooler

Extreme Heavy Duty Clutch

AVO Front Mount Intercooler

NISMO 4.6 Litre per minute (276 Litre per hour) in tank fuel pump

RACEPACE Custom Exhaust

TEIN RE Shock Absorbers (Custom Racepace Valving and setup)

Whiteline Sway Bars: 24mm Front and 22mm Rear

Noltec adjustable Front Upper Arms

Cusco Radius Rods

Tune Agent Adjustable Upper Rear Arms and Traction Rods

Rays CE28N 18 * 9.5 inch Rims with Bridgestone RE55 SR2 265/35/18 Race Tyres

CSC 6 Piston 355 * 32 MM front Brakes and CSC 2 Piston 343 * 28 MM rear Brakes

Braided lines front and rear

Race Radiators Alloy Radiator

Race Pace Custom Oil/Air Separator

Samco Intercooler and Radiator hose kits

ARC Radiator Air Deflector

Odessey PC680 Dry Cell Battery

Attessa Controller

Nismo 320 Km/h Speedo

Meridian Motorsport Half Cage with Side Intrusion Bars

377.4 KW at the rear wheels - ~365 KW on the track (Racepace Dyno Dymanics Dyno)

There you have it - it's the fastest road registered R32 GT-R in Victoria around a circuit.

[R31Nismoid]

Look, if you wanna do a fair bit yourself no worried.

Have racepace built the motor, see if you can attach the turbos any everything else, put the motor in etc etc. Have to ask them as i know they prefer to do it all

-5s are the turbos you want either way, none of this t04Z business, thats ~150-200hp more than your chasing

Also - not sure if legality is one of your worries (being melb, it should be), certain workshops will give you any mods etc.

But the good ones are the ones that try and keep the car legal enough not to cop a defect. Ye it might have mods etc. But done right, you dont get the instant attention which is something to think about (if your gonna use it reasonably often)

[r33_racer]

kudos to you mate....do it yourself. I like your style!

Build it all yourself, only goto the workshop for a tune!

Its only money!

Edited November 26, 2008 by r33_racer

[Angus Smart]

On the topic of the N1 crate motor you wish to use. i wouldnt.. they will eventually fail.. nothing is forged and it would be cheaper to buy a rebuild on a motor sourcing a n1 block than buying a n1 motor here.. the currency rate has made motors in japan rather pricey. and at the end of the day its going to be stronger than the Stock N1 item.