Crankshaft Whip

[Swiper the Fox]

why would you ask that? do you think its tune related?

yeah...initial tune on a new engine is critical...if too rich the excessively fueled mixture will not allow the rings to bed. It seems to me the engine has seen too much fuel for an extended period...contaminated an already below par oiling system...and failed.

Id be having a chat with the builder of the engine and who did the initial tune Joe.

Edited December 30, 2008 by DiRTgarage

[MrStabby]

why would you ask that? do you think its tune related?

Doesnt overfuelling = extra rich tune?? But then you're wideband said 11.5 to 12 - so that doesnt add up.

Going back to your original post, you had lifter noise at 2500-3000 - was that straight after you got the motor, ie before the oil had a chance to become contaminated? If so, i guess that's a symptom of oil pressure issues.

[SECURITY]

the car never ran excessively rich. my data logs show this.

either way the engine failed due to incomplete combustion and a restricted oil pick-up.

how does incomplete combustion occur?

[MrStabby]

Incomplete combustion = too rich (the black smoke is the incompletely burnt fuel, its coming out as carbon instead of co2), or missfire (say if you had a dodgy spark plug or coil, but you'd notice that).

Dirt - is 11.5 too rich for a new motor?

[Swiper the Fox]

Incomplete combustion = too rich (the black smoke is the incompletely burnt fuel, its coming out as carbon instead of co2), or missfire (say if you had a dodgy spark plug or coil, but you'd notice that).

Dirt - is 11.5 too rich for a new motor?

no my latest race engine was run-in at 11.5's

[Beer Baron]

well the report certainly seems to pinpoint the cause so i would say you got your moneys worth there. the engineer seems to know what he was talking about and checked everything properly. hopefully it tells you what you wanted to know about how and why it died.

[SECURITY]

well the report certainly seems to pinpoint the cause so i would say you got your moneys worth there. the engineer seems to know what he was talking about and checked everything properly. hopefully it tells you what you wanted to know about how and why it died.

yeah thats all i really wanted. he did a great job for a good price.

i also want to point out - if i didnt have the overfueling problem would the motor still have starved of oil if i hit a track day seeing as though there was a blockage of the oil pick-up? i never really noticed it as i didnt hit the higher revs very often. only time i heard anything was at WSID after a run, i heard what i now realise was lifter noise - i never really got to inspect it as by the time i got back to the pits the noise was gone.

Edited December 30, 2008 by SECURITY

[No Crust Racing]

So you know there was an oil control issue but do you know what caused it? Shouldn't the builder have been checking such things as he went along?

[SECURITY]

So you know there was an oil control issue but do you know what caused it? Shouldn't the builder have been checking such things as he went along?

it just didnt occure to me that it was an oil problem, i even swung past the engine builder's workshop while i was in the area teling him that i was really happy with the motor etc etc - i figured that all rb's had noisy lifters and thats what it was, just the lifters playing up. but as you go along you start to piece things together, unfortunately for me it happened a bit too late.

[D3bb4]

sounds like you've also got a dented sump, and is messin up your oil pickup. That aint good. Bottom the sump out on something?

You make sure to not let the car idle too much too? idling often causes fuel wash, is shit for run ins.

Sorry to hear. bloody expensive.

[SECURITY]

sounds like you've also got a dented sump, and is messin up your oil pickup. That aint good. Bottom the sump out on something?

You make sure to not let the car idle too much too? idling often causes fuel wash, is shit for run ins.

Sorry to hear. bloody expensive.

nah no dent in the sump mate.

[Swiper the Fox]

You make sure to not let the car idle too much too? idling often causes fuel wash, is shit for run ins.

x2

[No Crust Racing]

This is kind of my point also, though I didn't have the technical understanding, as I was pointing out that oil-control had been listed as an issue and that comes down to the builder.

I still think he's at fault here.

[Risking]

It may have been overfueling and ultimatly not run in correctly but doesnt that report also states that the incorrect or not suitable enough O ring was installed on the oil pick up??

I have seen many which dont have flat flanges but if you use a suitable sized O ring they seal perfectly fine.

Alot of pickups have slightly curved flanges so when the bolts are tightened down it puts tension on the O ring.

Whilst it may have not been run in properly it surely would have failed on the track at high rpm due to the oil pick up sucking air through a less than adequate O ring seal.....

That comes back to whoever assembled it not using the correct O ring in the correct position. From the way I read the report even if the tune was spot on for running in an engine in the the long run the faulty O ring would have caused the engines demise further down the track anyways, the contaminated oil mearly enhanced the problem???

[Swiper the Fox]

It may have been overfueling and ultimatly not run in correctly but doesnt that report also states that the incorrect or not suitable enough O ring was installed on the oil pick up??

I have seen many which dont have flat flanges but if you use a suitable sized O ring they seal perfectly fine.

Alot of pickups have slightly curved flanges so when the bolts are tightened down it puts tension on the O ring.

Whilst it may have not been run in properly it surely would have failed on the track at high rpm due to the oil pick up sucking air through a less than adequate O ring seal.....

That comes back to whoever assembled it not using the correct O ring in the correct position. From the way I read the report even if the tune was spot on for running in an engine in the the long run the faulty O ring would have caused the engines demise further down the track anyways, the contaminated oil mearly enhanced the problem???

spot on...post of the thread

[SECURITY]

i just thought i'd add that when the car initially left the tuners, he even said himself that it was running a bit LEAN. on my way home i did some touch ups which saw the car on ~14.7 on idle (factory ecu settings as i run an emanage ultimate), and around 11.7-12.1 on low boost levels and around 14.5-14.7 (std ecu settings) on cruise. it wasnt the best tune but i wasnt taking it over 4000rpm anyway.

later on after the run-in period i got into trialing software which cleaned up my afr's more - which i have data logs of. my AFR's were never dangerously rich or lean at any point other than the drive home from the tuners. and if it was lean after turning some boost up, it was for 1 power run to input into the software then afr's were sweet again.

[NYTSKY]

Now that you have a very definitive report on what happened to your engine, what is your next move?

Im sure the engine builder will say its not his fault.

[SECURITY]

not his fault that the o-ring on the pick-up wasnt assembled properly?

i'll guess i'll just want till he opens up for the new year and see how we go. he seems like a reasonable guy, the engineer reports states a critical fault that would have come up in the build stage so we'll just have to talk it out and see where it takes us.

Edited December 30, 2008 by SECURITY

[No Crust Racing]

Kepp us posted mate and good luck!

[Adriano]

Did the engineer check the ring gaps, and did he send the oil away for testing?

Edited December 31, 2008 by Adriano