Holset Turbo's

[Cjmartz2k]

That first turbo you linked to is a variable geometry exhaust housing and will go anywhere from 5cm up to 22cm. It's LIGHT years ahead of anything garrett's putting out. Garrett with their "old tech" and all As soon as somebody figures out how to make it work with the computer controller not integrated into the factory ECU of a dodge pick up, it'll be the best turbo out there. Imagine a 600rwhp turbo that spools 1.5 bar by 2000rpm.

That video was pretty interesting and it was cool seeing them blow those things up. Be ware of the copies.

[Adriano]

I think the video is a bit of a crock. Im willing to bet some of the genuine turbos blow the same way. And a comp wheel blowing isnt going to go through the floor of the bus anyway.

Any way unfortunately the variable turbos at this stage cannot handle the exhaust temps that petrol produce. Although they may last a while on e85.

[GT-RZ]

I think the video is a bit of a crock. Im willing to bet some of the genuine turbos blow the same way. And a comp wheel blowing isnt going to go through the floor of the bus anyway.

Any way unfortunately the variable turbos at this stage cannot handle the exhaust temps that petrol produce. Although they may last a while on e85.

Yea, quite common to see these on newer diesel truck engines. clever setup but may be a while before they get tranferrred in to petrol engines. something to look forward too?

[Cjmartz2k]

Yeah, I hope soon. There are a few people that are actually running them on gasoline engines with no ill effects so far (they are just manually opening and closing the variable a/r), but I'm waiting to see what the innards look like when the turbo comes off.

[bigmikespec]

Any way unfortunately the variable turbos at this stage cannot handle the exhaust temps that petrol produce.

Of course they can, BW make a variable vane turbo that is on the new 911

[CEF11E]

I was thinking of putting one of the 351ve's on the 30DET but it would not fit in the space I had for it in the low mount position. I would love to use one of these. they would not be hard to control. all you need to do is buy a digital fuel adjuster from jaycar, splice the output from your AFM into the ecu as normal and run the other feed to the adjuster. the output from the adjuster is completly programmable. and will output from 0 to 5v or 0 to 12v. this then goes to the actuator and presto! completly programmable vairable geo turbo!!

you would have to spend quite a bit of time on the dyno to tune it though.

the other way to do it would be via injector duty cycle. but airflow would be the better but harder way about it.

I also looked at using a map sensor

[zebra]

Of course they can, BW make a variable vane turbo that is on the new 911

There's a reason that the 911 Turbo costs 300k

[bigmikespec]

There's a reason that the 911 Turbo costs 300k

It cost around that much before it had variable vane turbos on there, but I know what you mean. Imagine buying one through Porsche!

Another thing to note they are only tested as far as Porsche's R&D goes. Which is not to say it is inadequate but it is still new tech. in relation to petrol turbos.

[Adriano]

Not 100% sure, but i think the 911 variable turbo like the bmw turbos are variable a/r one the comp housing.

[Cjmartz2k]

CEF, I think the control unit is a digital kinda thing, not analog 0-5v or 0-12v; unless you are talking about hooking it up the the motor directly. I don't know much about those things. Can you send me a link to the jaycar thing your talking about? I've never heard of jaycar--I'm assuming it's an aussie thing?

Also, how much boost have you made it up to so far?

[CEF11E]

the jaycar thingie is an analog voltage bender much like a safc. it comes in kit form and costs about 80aud. hmmm the ones i was looking at used a variable voltage input to change the a/r in a linear fasion. i guess i would have to buy one to find out.

so far on mine i have not upped the boost yet, its only running 14psi at the moment. i will have to wait till i get get some dyno time to tune it properly. even at 14psi its to dangerous to look at the boost guage to see if boost is steady to redline. will have to wait till I get it on the dyno to find out. even then for the longevety of the motor i am going to cap power at 300rwkw so i will not see over 20psi.

I might upp it a bit on the dyno to see what it will do but i really dont want to lunch the motor for the sake of a few figures

cheers

[Falc]

I've been studying these Holset turbo's for countless hours, finding compressor maps on these is so damn hard.

The problem I'm having is that the engine I want a 600-700HP turbo for is my VH45, looking at many of the holset compressor maps they don't have the width at the bottom of the map to do what I want, but look to be awesome for high boost. I need 60lb/min @ a pressure ratio of around 1.7 the turbo's that seem to fit are

HX40 B8574M just on the 60%@60lb choke line @PR of 1.7

HX40 B8584M inside 65%@60lb/min @PR of 1.7

H1E 8284AD inside 65%@60lb/min@1.7

H2C 8625N almost 70%@60lb/min@1.7

H2E 9551BA inside 70%@60lb/min@1.7 but it comes on at 35lb/min which seems very late, I've calculated around 18lb/min @3500rpm

I've posted the above for reference if anyone is searching as there really isn't that much info for holsets on larger petrol engines.

Does anyone know any more info about the turbo's I have posted, particularly how many blades they have on the compressor. There are so many 8 blade holsets around but no 8 blade holset I have found will flow the number I need at low boost.

[CEF11E]

Falc, I had a look at the compressor maps when i was choosing a turbo for mine and had difficulty getting the correct compressor map for the turbo I was looking at so in the end i just looked at the power it was making at what boost on as many cars as possible.

I came across the map that is for my compressor after I pulled the turbo apart and infact the compressor is rated to flow an incredible amount. on my setup at 20psi it will flow just a shade under 47lb/min at full noise. at 3500 rpm it will flow 22lb/min. and that's only 220odd hp.

I might have got my volumetric efficiency wrong and therefore my calc's could be wrong. any once you put the compressor in a cover and bolt a turbine in a restrictive side all the maths go out the window. I am guessing that the 12cm^ or even the 10cm^ @20 psi with these turbines will still flow enough for 350rwkw. I am basing this on the fact that a .63 rear can flow 300rwkw and the 10 and 12cm considerably bigger.

so the HX35 looks like it will flow 47lb/min. @20psi. that's 350kw. the 10cm^ housing looks like it will also cope with this power level and the standard RB manifold will start to choke at 300rwkw and that would be approx 330 to 340 flywheel kw?

so in theory the HX35 looks to be the perfect turbo for us.

I have included the map for mine with a line at approx 20psi.

[CEF11E]

[Crans]

Would be very very easy to make an embedded micro controller to control the opening and closing of the valve. Can even design a system that allows you to map this against RPM and throttle position.

[discopotato03]

Jaycar also do a kit called Intelligent Boost Controller and it can be referenced off an airflow meter signal from memory . I think SK built one some time back to get better boost response in a Stagea .

Just on the VTN/VATN thing , don't forget this is Variable Area Turbine NOZZLE - not variable area radius ratio (A/R)turbine housing .

There are a few ways to "throttle" the exhaust gas speed through the nozzle and into the turbine blades .

You could also argue that they are a variable turbine inlet pressure ratio housing .

I believe VATN controllers are quite involved to set up because accelerating the compressor and getting boost at the wrong times can lead to surge and detonation issues so not quite as easy as the usual bypass waste gate system .

You mainly see these on dieseasels because they generally have lower EGT than petrol engines so the device used to vary the area of the turbine housings nozzle doesn't have to cope with as much heat (cheaper material spec parts) .

If you don't mind using bush bearing turbos Garrett also do GT wheel spec plain bearing units for diesels so it doesn't all begin and end with museum pieces like crude old T04B/E/S/R units .

I've been wondering for some time now why someone hasn't tried using a Garrett GT4082 turbocharger .

These use a 77mm 73 trim GT40 turbine in a T4 flanged I think 0.94 A/R TS T4 flanged turbine housing . The compressor is an 82mm GT40 which is the same family as the compressor in a ball bearing GT3582R only in 50 rather than 56 trim . The comp housing is from memory a 0.58 A/R GT40 port shrouded thing and from pics I've seen isn't much if any bulkier than the GT3582R's T04S housing . Giz a sec and I'll look for the link .

Best I can do cheers A .

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/product...roducts_id=1421

Edited June 25, 2009 by discopotato03

[CEF11E]

Who bought the 2 holsets the same as mine on ebay

I know it was two people from sau just not sure who! I am wishing I had bought one to squrriel away now!

[Adriano]

I think there was only one, just listed twice. Yeedogger bought it because you told him to

[bozodos]

Do you have a part number for the HX35 you used CEf11E and do you think that one would go alright on a RB25?

[Falc]

Falc, I had a look at the compressor maps when i was choosing a turbo for mine and had difficulty getting the correct compressor map for the turbo I was looking at so in the end i just looked at the power it was making at what boost on as many cars as possible.

I came across the map that is for my compressor after I pulled the turbo apart and infact the compressor is rated to flow an incredible amount. on my setup at 20psi it will flow just a shade under 47lb/min at full noise. at 3500 rpm it will flow 22lb/min. and that's only 220odd hp.

I might have got my volumetric efficiency wrong and therefore my calc's could be wrong. any once you put the compressor in a cover and bolt a turbine in a restrictive side all the maths go out the window. I am guessing that the 12cm^ or even the 10cm^ @20 psi with these turbines will still flow enough for 350rwkw. I am basing this on the fact that a .63 rear can flow 300rwkw and the 10 and 12cm considerably bigger.

so the HX35 looks like it will flow 47lb/min. @20psi. that's 350kw. the 10cm^ housing looks like it will also cope with this power level and the standard RB manifold will start to choke at 300rwkw and that would be approx 330 to 340 flywheel kw?

so in theory the HX35 looks to be the perfect turbo for us.

I have included the map for mine with a line at approx 20psi.

doesn't really help me though because high airflow at high boost doesn't suit my engine. Everyone seems to be putting these on smaller engines and making a lot of power at a lot of boost, most of the holsets will choke on my engine before making the same power. I need around 10psi at the manifold to make 600hp. I don't want more power because I'm running an OS giken twin plate through a Z32 trans and R200 rear end, really not a fan of blowing drivelines

Whats the biggest petrol engines you guys have seen single holsets put onto? any 1UZ's? what were the results?