Water/meth Injection & E85 Fuel

[Roy]

Ok, since Shell Racing 100RON is off the market, i will soon be getting my car retuned for another fuel and the E85 looks to be the best pic of pump fuels.

Question is, given the properties and performance of the E85 fuel is there still any merit to running water/meth injection. I am not chasing more power as much as the ablity to wind more ignition into the car to help the little RB20 fills its lungs in the mid range

[discopotato03]

Roy you probably have a few alternatives always assuming you can easily get E85 .

You could try to mix you own brew of the best ULP available and E85 to get the same octane as your old 100 .

Straight E85 is always quoted to be very good knock wise but you burn more than straight ULP so less range .

I haven't read of anyone using E85 and WMI so I guess the only way to find out is to experiment with straight E85 and see if you can get away with as much ignition advance as does any good .

Have to suck it see I suppose , cheers A .

[NYTSKY]

With E85 you will be able to run alot more timing without it pinging, so i dont see the need to run WMI aswell.

My 2c.

[paulr33]

before you run off and get all setup for E85 have a read of the thread by guilt toy in forced induction

he tried e85 and its not a straight forward - the thread has all the details

[rtune]

how many places near you can you fill up?

but the effective octane rating is very high so lots of ignition advance possible, along

with a good deal more flow needed (hence the higher consumption).

Why not go water/meth injection with regular pump gas, it has got to be easier to

keep that bottle filled up than staying near E85 stations.

[chrissso]

Hey Roy, I would tend to agree with ^.

It'll prolly take a year of e85 for enthusiasts to publish the best way to tune it, etc. it's a bit like a new operating system on a computer, untested, with lots of bugs that will eventually be ironed out.

The cons are mixing your own water/meth cocktail every 2 weeks and keeping a drum of flammable liquid in the garage.

However, water/meth with pump fuel has given 'the mafia" good results.

Otherwise, you may wish to be one of those enthusiast, more powa to ya!

[Guilt-Toy]

i never bothered with my WMI kit when testing E85. From what i figured from the testing i did, you cannot ping your engine if your near MBT with E85.

I have a full stage 2 snow performance kit with a huge alloy meth tank + the solinoid add on extra for sale for $450.

let me know if interested, with the RB20, your going to need all the help you can get so WMI might work in your favour.. (buy my kit )

If you were to test WMI & E85 I would take a guess to say that you will be able to raise the MBT threshold by injecting water so instead of reaching MBT at 20deg on full boost, you will reach MBT at 25 and get the extra 5deg of power to the rear wheels.

So this would be something that will need to be tested and trialed.. and yes i know I am probly the guy to do it but I have alot of other stuff going on atm so you can gladly take this project off my hands.

lol

[Roy]

Why are you getting rid of the Snow kit? Wold the jet size be suitable for the lowly RB20

I may just stick with the Shell 98 or the United fuel with ethanol as the car will still be seeing lots of street kms, and combine with with WI.

[Bond]

Has anyone had much luck with United's version of 100?? Its available in more stations than the e85 and is the same price as 98 which is now only 12c more than e85. I have 2 servos near me that stock it and was thinking of getting the car tuned to run on it!

[Guilt-Toy]

Why are you getting rid of the Snow kit? Wold the jet size be suitable for the lowly RB20

I may just stick with the Shell 98 or the United fuel with ethanol as the car will still be seeing lots of street kms, and combine with with WI.

i got my car up to 380rwkw and have not even switched the kit on yet, so i decided i don't need it and would rather use the money.

It has the small jet so it would be fine for the rb20.

let me know if your interested

[jet_r31]

I am going to try it , early next year, when my motors back.It something that i have planned for since it came out in the U.S.

Fair few people in the states have done it, and it seems to act like C16 at least , I reckon that

water injected in a decent rate + e85 would have a overall rating of near on 120 octane, and

cool better than C16

So in most people cases its total and utter overkill, either use e85 , or 98 with water, i would go the later

it much easier and just use straight water.

The reason i want to try it, is to run 150mph in full street trim, which is hard with the auto sucking

power.

cheers

darren

Edited December 7, 2008 by jet_r31

[khunjeng]

I just looked on the United web site, cos my car is tuned for 100 but hasnt been driven much since it ran out, to my suprise :

premium100 is currently only available in Albury & Bayswater in Victoria and now Blacktown (Sunnyholt Rd), NSW.

Smiles : Bayswater is not far from me at al!

[Bond]

Its available in a lot more places than that. 2 servos withing 3km of me have it and i'm in the west

[2rismo]

The WMI lowers intake temps - great. So does E85 in its own right. Remember though, there are other aspects to E85 that make it a better pump fuel for hard-tuned applications. Here's the lay terminology I think best describes it:

Premium Unleaded Petrol (Optimax etc)

1/ Add timing

2/ More timing

3/ More timing / ping

4/ Reduce timing

5/ Done

E85

1/ Add timing

2/ More timing

3/ More timing

4/ More timing

5/ More timing /peak torque

6/ More timing / lose power

7/ More timing / lose power

8/ More timing / ping

[jet_r31]

E85

1/ Add timing

2/ More timing

3/ More timing

4/ More timing

5/ More timing /peak torque

6/ More timing / lose power

7/ More timing / lose power

8/ More timing / ping

Looks like water injection, i bet $100 that a proper set up water injection setup, will

beat a E-85 tune!, and put less stress on a motor doing it

cheers

darren

[Guilt-Toy]

The WMI lowers intake temps - great. So does E85 in its own right. Remember though, there are other aspects to E85 that make it a better pump fuel for hard-tuned applications. Here's the lay terminology I think best describes it:

Premium Unleaded Petrol (Optimax etc)

1/ Add timing

2/ More timing

3/ More timing / ping

4/ Reduce timing

5/ Done

E85

1/ Add timing

2/ More timing

3/ More timing

4/ More timing

5/ More timing /peak torque

6/ More timing / lose power

7/ More timing / lose power

8/ More timing / ping

hahahaha! You need to add 3 or 4 "More timing"

E85

1/ Add timing

2/ More timing

3/ More timing

4/ More timing

5/ More timing /peak torque

6/ More timing / lose power

7/ More timing / lose power

8/ More timing / ping

Looks like water injection, i bet $100 that a proper set up water injection setup, will

beat a E-85 tune!, and put less stress on a motor doing it

cheers

darren

How do you get a decent WMI kit for $100? what a load of rubbish. the pump themself's are worth about $200 and then you need control and jets and anti drain back solinoids etc etc.

I proper water meth kit is the snow performance kits, the recommended on is the stage 2, and they are about $520 us NEW!

[r33_racer]

Guilt Toy you are being sarcastic right?

Im pretty sure he is betting 100 bux that a proper setup will beat e85! lol rub the sleep out of your eyes mate and re read it

[2rismo]

Darren, you may well be right but it's adding another system into the mix and the more complex you make things, the more likely something is to go wrong. The way I see it, the E85 does a couple of things much better than regular pump unleaded and that's good enough for me and most people. Like anything though, it can be improved and that's where people might like to use a WMI kit as well. I've got enough confusion going on in my setup to bother though.

[FineLine]

Darren, you may well be right but it's adding another system into the mix and the more complex you make things, the more likely something is to go wrong. .

You mean like nitrous.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6308321225797721350

[2rismo]

Last time I checked, Nitrous Oxide was a power adder and water wasn't. By that logic, a turbocharger is an 'extra' system. Clearly that's not what I'm talking about.