Sr20 - Bearing Failure On The Dyno

[Cartman]

oh shit. I've been found out!

OK GUYS, THE SCAM IS OVER.. SOMEONE HAS BLOWN MY COVER!

honestly...one more time for the loser up the back.

the tuner KNEW there was a bearing problem, he told me there was metal shavings in the motor.. but he still tuned it anyway.

ok i normaly stay out of these however i read over the thread and the reason i can see that trent went ahead with the tune is for the fact he thought the shavings were from the camshaft/topend oil problem and didnt expect it to be a bottomend problem aswell

my reason for saying that is you've shown up... he's fixed the top end problem.. sent you away for a week, you've come back and he's checked the topend is all good so he's assumed that was the end of the problem which im sure any good mechanic would have done and he's started to tune the car and problem has occured and he's pulled it off the dyno again..

as for people saying he's saved your engine, well in a way he has.. you still have a crank that can more than likely be reused allthough it is fairly common for SR cranks to be cracked upon removal of even a good engine, your block is reusable and most likely your rods can be reused aswell.

hope that clears things up a little bit for you as thats the way it has come across as whats happened to me.

[Liz]

ok i normaly stay out of these however i read over the thread and the reason i can see that trent went ahead with the tune is for the fact he thought the shavings were from the camshaft/topend oil problem and didnt expect it to be a bottomend problem aswell

my reason for saying that is you've shown up... he's fixed the top end problem.. sent you away for a week, you've come back and he's checked the topend is all good so he's assumed that was the end of the problem which im sure any good mechanic would have done and he's started to tune the car and problem has occured and he's pulled it off the dyno again..

as for people saying he's saved your engine, well in a way he has.. you still have a crank that can more than likely be reused allthough it is fairly common for SR cranks to be cracked upon removal of even a good engine, your block is reusable and most likely your rods can be reused aswell.

hope that clears things up a little bit for you as thats the way it has come across as whats happened to me.

yeah it does a bit, thanks! but i have more questions.. sorry (pls stay around).. and some of them I don't expect you to answer but I'm putting them out there, yet again..

I don't understand how the bottom end problem isn't linked to the metal from the top end?? Judging the by the comments in this thread, everyone is pretty confident that this engine was f**ked because of the metal shavings and oil blockage to the bottom end. I specifically asked about the oil to the bottom end considering the possible blockage to the head and I was advised that it wouldn't affect it. I forget the reasoning (I wrote it down so I'll get it tomorrow) but can someone answer this for me?

I understand that everyone thinks the right thing was done to save the motor, and if could have been done HOWEVER I was told that the first run (ie the pre-tune figure under std ecu) uncovered the problem yet the car was still tuned following that. NOT what was stated earlier in this thread.

I was also told of the bearing failure AFTER it had been tuned and AFTER this test drive I did. It's only when I started prying into the matter that the story is coming out in full which to me, screams like a mistakes been made.

[Tangles]

the problem would have been underlying, the engine has had a handful at some stage in its life without a doubt.

by starting to tune after getting the car back and doing the oil, the tuner has detected more problems, done a bit more tuning (ie detective work) and pulled it off the dyno when it wasnt looking positive

hasnt done anything out of the ordinary as far as I can 'tell'

pulling down the motor will explain a lot about the history of this particular engine;- it is highly possible the bottom end has been stressed over the course of its life, and now was simply the time for it to shut-down.

it'd never be easy to tell a customer his/her car is dead - but it wasnt his(tuners) fault!

[Liz]

kk. settle down lol perhaps it's just the mis-communication that's the issue here.............it's just screamed sussness from the word go! that's all! I will do some further digging though because (as you can tell) I'm still not confident that all care was taken here!

[mico]

why not try and scam a new paint job out of em aswell. and howz ur gearbox, maybe they ruined that 2. lol.

[paulr33]

workshops need quality of control im afraid

if an engine has an issue all work should cease and the customer should be contacted to action accordingly

i see no logical reason or value in continuing to work on an engine if a known issue is found

-> the only time i would see this being acceptable is if the customer over-rides the workshops decision

if it was my workshop

theres no way i would touch an engine with a known fault (either identified by one of my mechanics or the cars owner)

this doesn't solve the root issue, that liz's engine had a problem, but now the customer has gone through the whole process, time, labour, $

only to have a broken setup because of an initial root problem

[Swiper the Fox]

workshops need quality of control im afraid

if an engine has an issue all work should cease and the customer should be contacted to action accordingly

i see no logical reason or value in continuing to work on an engine if a known issue is found

-> the only time i would see this being acceptable is if the customer over-rides the workshops decision

if it was my workshop

theres no way i would touch an engine with a known fault (either identified by one of my mechanics or the cars owner)

this doesn't solve the root issue, that liz's engine had a problem, but now the customer has gone through the whole process, time, labour, $

only to have a broken setup because of an initial root problem

as above...

I cannot believe Trent was silly enough to put himself in this situation...as his own words stated, the car was a 'basket case'.

Sometimes yes its hard to turn people and work away....but in the best interests of your reputation and your business you have to. Hope a lesson has been learnt here.

[DRIFTER]

Nearly ever time you try "help" a customer out and do something that you don't recommend it ends up costing you. Either by having to re-do work or hurting your reputation.

[Swiper the Fox]

Liz, upon finding metal particles in your engine did Trent not ring you and tell you you needed to pull the engine?

[Liz]

Nearly ever time you try "help" a customer out and do something that you don't recommend it ends up costing you. Either by having to re-do work or hurting your reputation.

Again, you've missed the point. He never said... "I shouldn't tune this". When I first went there he said "There is an issue here, I think it's blocked oil squirters, I want to fix that before I tune it" then he solved the problem by replacing all those bits. But after that, I went back still slightly paranoid about the noisey lifters and left it with him to fix and tune if everything was ok. That was the last I heard until I called a week later to see how he was going. Even on the phone he didn't say anything about bearing failure, I even got to take the car out for a test and nothing was said before I jumped behind the wheel.

Liz, upon finding metal particles in your engine did Trent not ring you and tell you you needed to pull the engine?

That is correct. He didn't call.

[_Scotty_]

The question I want to ask is, would it be unreasonable for me to ask for them to pay for the damage to my motor?

The question you need to ask yourself is whether the cause of your engine failure was Trent's actions (or inactions) or whether it was the poor condition of your engine. It appears fairly clear that it was the latter, and that it would therefore not be reasonable to expect him to have responsibility for your loss. Your engine was going to fail regardless.

While he probably made a mistake in terms of communication and allowing himself to get into this situation (and no doubt regrets it), that doesn't make him responsible for the damage. People make mistakes, that's life. As others have pointed out I think you need to take responsibility for your engine yourself and accept that you need to foot the repair bill. On the other side of the coin Trent will no doubt take away a lesson in risk management.

Hopefully the experience won't detract from your interest in cars, or from Trent's willingness to help out others.

Edited December 16, 2008 by _Scotty_

[TTT]

this is the reason why you don't mix friends or family with business.

1.) engine was on it's last legs

2.) Trent should have (and probably always will from now on) refuse to tune it at all or do all the calls and get signed paperwork etc etc.. all the shit he doesn't have time for.

let see.. everyone one who has EVER dealt this URAS has had nothing but praise for him.

URAS has offered ALOT of free info on this forum for all to share, which he got from his experience. stuff that you would pay for.

After hearing/reading all this, if I took my dieing car to him expecting wide open arms, and he goes "Nah mate.. I'm not touching that with a 10' clown pole.. go get this this and this fixed, then I tune it"

I'd probably get the shits, come on here and blab about how bad an experience I had with that workshop and that guy who so many people had such good words about.

or

If Trent said "mate all those rattles sound like you need a new engine or rebuild" I would have thought he was just after my money and didn't want to spend time to "try" and fix it.

and again, move on to somewhere else, or start a thread saying "he just wanted to rebuild my motor without even trying to fix it"

so it's a no win for him.

he did what he thought was right.

see a forum member with a problem.

decides to help out.

fixes what seems to be big problems (did I read a cam lobe was missing????).

at reduced labour rates again to help out.

number of other diagnoses (lean mixture etc)

then it came and bit him in the arse due to the fact that he didn't make 1 phone call and say 1-3 sentences about how it doesn't look good still and he is not happy about tuning it as it looks like it is going to die.

and from the other side..

Liz - takes dieing car with 178rwkw.

gets back a car with 155rwkw after a tune and new ecu and cam etc etc fixed.

only to have a bearing problem "after" taking it for a drive making her think that they schemed this all up so they could say "well you must have broken it on your 2 minute drive around the block"

and what's going to happen here if you don't just say "oh well.. you did what you could, it would have been nice to have that call first but these things happen" and Trent saying "correct, I should have called, but I made a decision based on my experience which I have always relied on and has so far got me NO problems.. I will make sure I make that call if I come across this sort of situation again"

Liz says "trent.. you thin you could rebuild it for me and look after me a little"

Trent says "let me get you a figure of what it will cost for the rebuild and your options of more expensive or cheaper depending on what parts we use"

and you all live happily eva after.

The end.

[Tangles]

as long as you can still afford a Donkey & ball-point pen, hey GTST !

my quote before should have read "it'd never be easy to tell a customer "Your car is dead - but it wasnt MY (tuners) fault!"'

[Guilt-Toy]

putting any engine on a dyno puts that engine at risk.

many factors, temp, tuner, fuel quality / quantity, condition of engine, etc

by the sounds of this thread you went there twice with the issue, 1st time having things fixed / replaced (finding metal shaving then?)

then again to tune after fixing the broken parts. took time, and tuner said there were still issues (ie death rattle sounds)

and you're questioning what went on.

is that the jist of it?

from all that URAS has posted over the years, Id trust his work.

Just one of those things - that we all hope never happen to us, but hear of time and again

however Id say trent may regret not being in a little more contact with you in regards to the issues at the time, and whether he should have continued tuning or not.

commuication is the key here, however it is (slightly) understandable as workshops are busy busy busy and customer relations can be at the back of the workshops mind.

perhaps go back eye2eye, sit down over a lunch break and discuss ALL of what went on, with Trent and whoever else worked on the engine.

but as it is, the workshop insurance wont cover you for your losses, as the risk is entirely yours when/if you go on a dyno

harsh and sad but truth. its OUR risk as owners to modify / tune cars above and beyond factory specifications.

I feel for you, and recommend you go BACK to trent for the rebuild, as Im sure he would look after you 100% in terms of pricing, quality of workmanship etc

best of luck with it.

my stagea is being tuned atm, headwork etc, and what you're going thru is my worst nightmare !~

This man knows his stuff. great post A+++

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

not to mention an sr20 with stock turbo and ecu (not even a mention of a piggyback) making 178rwkw? how well do you know the previous tuner?

[BHDave]

not to mention an sr20 with stock turbo and ecu (not even a mention of a piggyback) making 178rwkw? how well do you know the previous tuner?

SAU dynoday

Discopotato

It was on woefully low boost from memory, i did suggest giving it a bit more at the time

Still not having much luck liz....

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

am i missing something here? how can that be correct...

an sr20 with stock turbo, no ecu, running lean as all hell and "woefully low" boost make 178 rwkw?

my rb25 with 2 cyl and half a litre more as well as a pfc only made 185rwkw

[mid life crisis]

so what is it your after liz lets get too the point . you after trent too say sorry for your engine dying after he tried to fix the top end .

are you after money compensation and a apology.

are you after a new engine or a discount to help build a new one?

enough of the i thought /he said ect ect . at the end of the day just what is you want done ?

i built a speedway donk a few yrs ago with all the best bits cost sevral thousand dollers did a slow run on the dyno with a light pull to check temps oil presure ect ect and too run it in a bit . 2 nd pull under load it thru a rod a brand new alloy carrilo with a arias piston attached to it right thru the side of the block .

i wasent happy at the time it wasent the tuners fault all air ratio's was spot on /oil presurre was fine / temps all normall it was a faliure in the rod itself any comback with the rod company none at all cause the the motor was for speedway . nobody to blame just sometimes shit happens and it;s not anyones fault at all

Edited December 16, 2008 by mid life crisis

[Dearlove]

ok i normaly stay out of these however i read over the thread and the reason i can see that trent went ahead with the tune is for the fact he thought the shavings were from the camshaft/topend oil problem and didnt expect it to be a bottomend problem aswell

i just about to point this out, haha

[Dearlove]

am i missing something here? how can that be correct...

an sr20 with stock turbo, no ecu, running lean as all hell and "woefully low" boost make 178 rwkw?

my rb25 with 2 cyl and half a litre more as well as a pfc only made 185rwkw

the closer to the stoichiometric value (14.7) the more power you make, unfortunately that kind of ratio your engine also dies, haha