Newspaper Today, P Platers.

[Rocky88]

EDIT: http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5012955,00.html

that hardly qualifies as an article... its like reading comment on a youtube...

[Carbon 34]

this is so funny ... to hear the different sides of the argument.... sorry about the book in advance..lol

but in reality , cars don't kill people, its people who kill people !!!! with the lack of judgment and respect behind the wheel of a couple of tonnes of cruise missile with wheels. doesnt matter if its a 100 kw or 1000kw they both kill you dead if you don't respect them ? I think we need a required skid pad test in the car you intend to drive on the roads, and defensive driving for at least a day session. for everyone not just P platers. just abolish the p plates and put in on the license like the USA does. its pointless to display P plates except it creates a stereotype for bad driving, which not all P platers do drive bad, just flags them when you see one drive like crap. just as many others drive like crap besides P platers ?

not tooting my own horn here but , I have lots of driving experience in road race cars and ice filled roads in USA with LOTS of traffic (pushing 30years driving now and no tickets or accidents at all )and it amazes me how bad some people drive here, tailgating is rampant, speeding, weaving lanes,driving too slow, turns without signals, driving into lanes on the tele ? and lots more. along with really bad roads doesnt help.

for my day job I was invited for Murcotts driving school at AIR for two days, the others(40 of them) who grew up here in OZ cleaned up the cones and imaginary people..... not one passed on mutiple trys at 20k,40k,60k and 80k, god forbid I'm on the roads with these people. not bragging but I didnt hit anything and even destroyed my new camrys brakes doing hispeed evasion of cones with antilock on...lol lots of fun thrashing a work car to bad it was front wheel peel..lol and overheated the rotors on it..lol

speaking of anti lock , how many people even know how to drive a car with antilock , not many ?

or how to slide a car on wet roads without plowing into poles ? hydroplaning happens in this town on oily roads with a tiny bit of water its like ice ?

I know a lot of P platers who drive like crap and they went thru the log book method.. its a joke I'd say. learn the car and expect everyone to drive like shit. its the way you need to think if you dont want to crash in town. and drifting in the hills is stupid, I drive up there sometimes and your roads dont have room for driving fast with trees that dont break if you hit them ? save the 2fast 2furious driving for the track or playstation.

and dont hoon with 5 mates in your car with booze,drugs or testoterone flowing. its a mix for a death toll. of you , your mates and the innocent family of 4 you killed by being stupid ? do you want to go through life knowing you killed mates or a family just to play in the hills ? not me !!!

but due to a lot of idiots.... the land of high powered cars for P platers is doomed, the trust factor with the goverment and public is broken. and dont flame me for saying this, but I notice a lot of kids(not all) get these high powered cars from mom and dads money, so why would they respect the car if it crashes they buy a new one for you, but if you earn the car by hard work, you tend not to destroy it and by working your not out driving like a idiot all night long?. all comes back to respecting the car and other people ? times change, too bad the goverment doesnt see the real picture and teach people how to really drive in panic situations(ie. real life every day !!!)not strip there pride and joy away from them ?

I know if I was 18 again I'd want a jap racer too..lol oh yeah I did have one...lol and a 72 corvette too..lol

I feel your pain !!!

Edited December 17, 2008 by sapphiregraphics

[Carbon 34]

In New York, it is against the law for a blind person to drive an automobile.

Oh the jocularity

off topic but added to the jocularity

in USA they have drive thru ATM's with braille buttons ? hello !!! blind drivers ??????lol

Edited December 17, 2008 by sapphiregraphics

[Dohmar]

off topic but added to the jocularity

in USA they have drive thru ATM's with braille buttons ? hello !!! blind drivers ??????lol

Maybe th' blind person is hellafied rich laik

And has a stretch hummer driven by a chimpanzee

and so they laik get chimp to drive thru and they wind down passenger window

and then get they cash

to pay chimpanzee

yeah

-D

[Inline 6]

10 times more licenced drivers in the 30-40 bracket than teenagers..........meaningless stat Rhys

what stats printed in newspapers are meaningful. my fav will always be the comparo of 1950 road toll and now 2008

its like wow only 2 people died back then they must have drove those 5 cars on the rd responsibly

they minupulate the numbers to say whateva bs they like, much like us accountants yeah keep reading those final net profit figures and think you can directly compare them with another company at who's doing better.

and troy while it is true and i agree the driver is the 1 making the car dangerous you cant accidently bump the accelartor down too hard in a excel and have the ass end kick out on you in the wet. while a stock gts might not be that bad seriously can you picture a kid in 1000hp car as his first car

and 72 corvette

Edited December 17, 2008 by Inline 6

[RubyRS4]

10 times more licenced drivers in the 30-40 bracket than teenagers..........meaningless stat Rhys

Unfortunately, thats what stats are Pete: a false interpretation of raw data, presented in a manner to support an argument. I've done a year of Statistical Analysis at Uni and its interesting how stats really mean nothing. More of a summary in one direction of a debate if you wish. Any conclusion can be drawn from them. Yet people like Rhys will grab onto any numbers which appear in their favour of an argument.

So you're right Pete, when you look at the 'target market' (the 30-40 bracket) which is far greater in size than (say) 20-29, per capita it has a far lower death rate. So ... if we look at the brackets that address young drivers, per capita they are at a far higher risk of crashes and deaths than any other category due to inexperience and lack of skill.

Sure, there are some young drivers you've had advanced training or race skills and their learning curve is huge, but those numbers are small and have little bearing on the young driver category as a whole. The authorities can't filter out those drivers and allow them special privlages, so the whole category is grouped and new laws imposed upon them all. The government has the stats that young drivers (per capita) are a high risk category and given the current trend (recent p-plater high speed crashes) the new law will be cast far and wide ... and I think its a good, responsible idea. If young drivers cannot be responsible behind the wheel, the government will do it for you.

And this argument about 'doesn't matter if they're in a POS corolla, they'll still kill themselves' is bullshit and you know it. Sure they could die, if they tried hard enough. A turboed car is too easy to lose in the wet, compared to mum's Excel. Who are you guys kidding? A high powered car is too easy to get into trouble, show off to ya mates, kill innocent people. That is the current trend at the moment. No matter how dramatic the media displays this, beneath the surface of the article, its a growing trend. An under powered car means you'd take longer to get speed up ... it just won't be as easy as an R33 or WRX. Especially for unskilled and inexperienced young drivers. Besides, dragging off traffic in mum's Fiesta, you'd look like a total knob anyway I see it all the time at the track, drivers who are not aware of how fast they are actually going! They lack the judgment of identifying speed without looking at the speedo. This is something you learn with experience and skill building ... not from owning a turbo car.

Edited December 17, 2008 by RubyRS4

[Inline 6]

could also argue young people spend more time on the road driving than the oldies just trotting to and from work. but then again some of them would drive a fair bit. owning a license does not require actual driving. at the end of the day its impossible to compare the actual rate per person per hour of driving or something to that effect.

people can use statistics to prove anything 40% of people know that.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Inline 6

[CRoNic...]

As that guy on here from Sydney said: Now they're finding even P platers driving Subaru RX's are wrapping themselves around trees.

Once this law comes in, be prepared to see alot more FWD Corolla drivers being classed as 'hoons'.

[GI Joe]

could also argue young people spend more time on the road driving than the oldies just trotting to and from work. but then again some of them would drive a fair bit. owning a license does not require actual driving.

people can use statistics to prove anything 40% of people know that.

yeah, and 86.75% of all statistics are made up by someone, including this one...

[rhys5169]

10 times more licenced drivers in the 30-40 bracket than teenagers..........meaningless stat Rhys

it was a harmless jab, as i said further down the post i am for limits on L/P platers....... but you didnt care to take notice of that?

[Inline 6]

seems people are taking others thoughts a lil too seriously and personally so its time for a trademark Dan intermission to the threads

ive hit you with the drugs now its time for HUGS!

[CRoNic...]

[Carbon 34]

and troy while it is true and i agree the driver is the 1 making the car dangerous you cant accidently bump the accelartor down too hard in a excel and have the ass end kick out on you in the wet. while a stock gts might not be that bad seriously can you picture a kid in 1000hp car as his first car

and 72 corvette

Yeah won't buy another GM car...lol I bought the Vette off dads friend for dirt cheap,, now its worth a mint..lol 550 HP 5.7 liter chevy with lots of mods

it virtually fell apart on its own..fiberglass shit box

my Excel ? was actually a sorta crazy front wheel drive car-flared fenders and all 79 Ford Fiesta with formula ford engine about 150hp maybe ? and I looped it late one night on a freeway onramp at about 80mph , it was dry until about mid way thru the corner and then the sprinklers were soaking the road.. lucky I kept it on the pavement and not thru the trees, and yes I was cornering hard, full koni setup lowered and huge tires on it. but my stupid driving could have be fatal on public roads, In my youth I did lots of stupid things in cars , so I do understand the P plate position. doesnt take a lot of power to crash a car, my brother did it with the engine off...? long funny story..lol

but with so many more people on roads these days and public perception along with bad reporting on the TV , papers, etc. they only think its P platers crashing .

when its just a lot of shit heads old and young, male and female with no idea about driving a car or respect for other people and property ? people have lost the plot when it comes to reality, if the news reports it it must be true? on top of all the usa crime shows they get brain washed into stereo typing people?

it used to be a part of growing up to do stupid shit in a car now its frowned upon and for a good reason, lots of people die from it. lots of innocent people too.

after moving here from USA it shocked me to see how many people crash into trees here? and the stobie poles that cut cars in half dont help either ?

for the size of the population I'd say the road toll is high but havent looked at the stupid lopsided stats just the black makers on all the roads near me ? and friends who all know people who died on roads here ? teach people how to drive better ? its really that simple .............not taking away a car that has a somewhat controlled slide and putting them into a front wheel drive that looses its in a big way when it slides catching people out?

no HP = taking chances on shooting gaps and loosing and crashing due to that fact?

to much HP= slides into poles, etc

either one can still exceed the speed limit ? so it doesnt make a difference.

Oh well I feel for the P platers but I dont know if bitching about it is going to stop the laws from being passed, I'd say they already have made up there minds on it here ? I guess being a old fart isnt so bad..lol

'

PS we managed to "Hoon" anything/everything with wheels when I was younger so I'm sure its still holds true today,you dont need power to Hoon it just speeds up the process a lot more lol

Edited December 18, 2008 by sapphiregraphics

[RubyRS4]

seems people are taking others thoughts a lil too seriously and personally so its time for a trademark Dan intermission to the threads

Some people just lack the ability to put up a constructive debate and be open minded

[burkill]

As that guy on here from Sydney said: Now they're finding even P platers driving Subaru RX's are wrapping themselves around trees.

Once this law comes in, be prepared to see alot more FWD Corolla drivers being classed as 'hoons'.

if it has wheels, you can crash it lol.

[RubyRS4]

if it has wheels, you can crash it lol.

If it has turbo, you can crash it faster.

Here's a story from 3 years ago. Its bike related, but it still applies to restricting access to powerful cars.

On December 26th (my birthday) in 2005, I was driving back with some friends to my place after bowling to continue my birthday party at my place with some drinking. Just 100m from my doorstep was the scene of a horrific bike crash. Blue Yammy R1 (1000cc sportsbike) was totalled and police were at the scene. It was apparent it happened a while ago and the rider had already been taken away. I parked at home and went to the scene fearing it was a mate who was dropping in on me for my birthday.

I get back to the scene and some witnesses said it was a 17yo named Simon. I don't know anyone named Simon at that age. I was informed, the rider overtook a car at high speed (witnesses put speed at over 80kph in a 50kph zone) but clipped the car and was thrown into a street light pole and thru the fence of a house. The rider died at the scene. He was wearing a cheap helmet and that was it (shorts and tshirt mostly). The rider was being followed by friends all crammed into a Commonwhore and when the crash occured they legged it (some friends huh?) but not before witnesses got the rego. Now my first question was "what the hell was a 17yo doing riding an R1?". I helped the police identify the motorcycle as a powerful Yamaha YZF-R1 1000cc sportsbike. The police informed me the rider was a Learner and should not have been on that bike.

Young, dumb and full of cum ... he got on a bike he was not licensed to ride, not skilled to ride, not experienced to ride ... I was only thankful he didn't have a passenger. He died showing off ... that scenario sound familiar? A common trend?

I had since found out, he misled his parents that he could ride an R1 when he got off his Ls (which is rubbish) ... so his parents bought him the R1 with the rule that he didn't ride it until off his Ls. There is no way he could legally ride that bike for almost 12 months after coming off a non-learner licence limited to restricted bikes. His parents went away for Christmas and told him not to touch the R1 ... "sure mom!". Obviously the friends came over and he had to show off and become a stat.

The law was there for a reason ... to protect fools like him from power they can't handle. You think you can, but the reality is: you cannnot!

A few months later, I get a letter in my letterbox asking me not to ride my bike down a particular street, because the parents of the deceased get upset hearing a motorcycle ride past. WTF You bought your son the deathtrap and I had nothing to do with his death. A week or so later, I pulled up my on my bike, got my helmet and gloves off, put the bike away in the garage. As I'm coming out of the garage, a car pulls up and the male driver (father of the deceased teen hoon!) starts having a go at me for riding past their house (which was not intentional, I had no idea where they live). Well, I gave him some facts back: "You bought him the deathtrap, not me! You left your son with the keys to a powerful sportsbike and foolishly left him unsupervised. You didn't do your homework and find out what he could legally ride. Why didn't you just buy him a gun?". He got angry back and rambled on a bit and eventually broke down. I got him sat down and got him a drink and we chatted for a while. Awkward, but I do know what its like to lose someone so valuable in your life.

He went away seeing things more clearly and not hating the world so much. Been there done that. And I did feel sorry for him. Didn't like being told how/where to ride, nor the fact his son did something so stupid ... but I did feel sorry for his loss.

It would be a year later that a good friend would be killed on her bike. Very experienced rider, but on a new bike she was not familiar with, and didn't react in time when a pedestrian walked out in front of her in an 80kph zone.

Edited December 19, 2008 by RubyRS4

[J - Rad]

I know a bloke who was selling his 250cc motorbike and the guy who took it for a test ride crashed it and died at the scene. He was 30+ and on his full licence but was buying the bike for someone else. So it's not only experience that plays a part in most deaths on the roads. Most of them are accidents.

Also we should know by now not to believe every little story that comes from news sites, like that R31 skyline that crashed afew weeks back. First day its the high powered skyline hoon incident then the day after we get the real story about the tourist that run them off the road.

I think people should stop arguing about which age group has more deaths than others and who the worst drivers are. Accidents on the roads aren't always due to someone showing off or hooning, most of the time its due to driver error or driver fatigue.

I don't really have an opinion about the P plater laws because most of the time its all bullshit stories to create interest and it goes no where.

Yes we need a new motorsport facility

Yes we need more driver training and defensive driving courses

Yes P platers might f**k around in high powered cars and I can see the argument in putting them in 4cyl cars. But every driver can make a mistake, any car can be f**ked around in and just because it takes longer to get to certain speeds does not mean it can't get there. People can die at any reasonable speed depending on how/where they are hit so putting P platers into smaller cars isn't going to stop anything.

[typevu]

I got a mate that wrote off a car that he couldnt handle - he was the kind to show off a fair bit which eventually led him to write off the car. He was lucky and learnt a good lesson in life then and hasnt been too keen on people doing silly things/anything above normal on the road since.

[J - Rad]

Put the fear of God into him. I think that is what most of these people need.

[Carbon 34]

Not sure if anyone saw this posted on SAPOL's web site ?

Operation ‘Positive P’s’

Holden Hill Local Service Area is launching a traffic initiative commencing Monday

15 December 2008. Operation ‘Positive P’s’ is directed at ‘P’ plate drivers who

display good driving behaviour and operates until the end of March 2009.

Reducing fatalities and serious injuries on our roads is a priority for police. In

supporting the philosophy that road safety is everyone’s responsibility, Holden Hill

Police will be watching our probationary drivers looking for good driving behaviour

which:

· displays positive and courteous driving

· obeys road laws

Holden Hill Police will be taking note of good driving displayed by ‘P’ plate drivers

throughout the duration of the operation. The driver will not be spoken to at the

time, but will be contacted at a later date by way of a letter acknowledging their

exemplary driving and nominating them for one of a number of rewards which

have been generously donated by local businesses. (Big Brother is watching you? so dont shit yourself if you get a letter from SAPOL for Chrissy.. lol)

Acting Officer in Charge of Holden Hill Local Service Area, Detective Chief

Inspector Craig Patterson is encouraging ‘P’ plate drivers to be aware of their

driving responsibilities and that developing good driving behaviour is a skill for life

which may save your life and the lives of other road users.

95 people have lost their lives on South Australian roads to date this year, with 11

being ‘P’ plate drivers. 2 of those ‘P’ plate drivers lived in the Holden Hill Local

Service Area. This compares with 7 ‘P’ plate drivers losing their lives in 2007 and

4 in 2006.

The Christmas holiday season is a high risk period for fatal and serious injury

crashes. This particular operation concentrates on recognising and rewarding

good driving by our probationary drivers with a view of making our roads safer.