2009 F1 Season

[Roy]

Button said they were discussing the strateegy on the radio, and his frist reaction was it was a risky call. But I would be amazed if these calls are purely down to the team. In fact i will say they are not. You hear it all the time with guys like Alonso telling the team how the car is going, what other drivers are doing in traffic and tyres with times. Its a team thing and the drivers are head of the team on a race day.

Also Dezz, my point about Vettel having a shocker, he is really the only guy at the moment who could count himself a title challenger for Button. Rubens has the same car but wotn challenge Button, if RBR find a tad more pace with the diffuser it will be on for Vettel and the WDC. So the guy who has qualified in the top 3 at every round, the only other driver to have won a round, woudl have to say it was a shocker to start from P2 with more fuel then all those around you and finish 4th, almost 5th. It was a poor result for a guy that looked strong after Q3, his only real mistake was the fluffed start

Webber had a poor qualifying run, and made his way up to P3 where he was on the bum of P2 at the checquered flag. I cant see how people are saying Vettel had the better race?!?!?!?! If you said Button or Heidfeld did then i would maybe agree...but anyway.

[Roy]

So that had nothing to do with the fact Massa HAD to conserve fuel to get him to the end of the GP?

I think you will find that he was the only guy in the mid to low 23s at the end of the race. Webber, Button and Rubens were all in the low to mid 25s. Poor Massa was way slower, losing 4 seconds per lap to Alonso if i recall.

So i think the time Baron is talking about was to the leaders, not Massa.

..anyway, differences of opinion are always good. Lets you see things from a different perspective. Hell, sometimes i even come around to others way of thinking...lol but not this time. It may be the only time this year that Webber finished ahead of his team mate after qualifying behind him

But i hope Vettel can go on to challege Button, be great for RBR. It will also be interesting to see if Webber can get a win this year. If this was Webber responding to the challenge that was Vettel then he was lucky, his response needs to be a better qualifying performance and demonstrating he is able to control a GP from the front and take a win, something Vettel has twice shown he is capable of

[NISMO]

A few people have mentioned Webber's move on Alonso and i think that summed up his effort and also the lack of Vettel's.

Webber, plain and simple new he had to get around Alonso to be in the hunt, and did not give up, and pulled off what was a farking brilliant move.

Vettel again as others have said was behind Massa all race and didn't.

Personally I'm a big hater of the Webber hysteria anytime he finishes anywhere in the top ten, but that move was gold and i think summed up his wanting to win. In this race, that "want" was more than Vettel.

Now to move on, how serious does everyon think Toyota's and even Ferrari's threats are to leave if they don't get their way with the spending caps?

[Beer Baron]

So that had nothing to do with the fact Massa HAD to conserve fuel to get him to the end of the GP?

that's my point exactly. vettel once passed massa picked up 2 seconds against the laps he was stuck behind massa. obviously when stuck behind massa his times will mimic massas. once in clear air he showed his pace. my point is, if he was that much faster he should have passed him waaay back, knowing full well that circulating as massas slow-ish pace was killing his race. not waited until massa was completely fked 4 laps from the end. and at that point massa's pace went way out the window. a lot more than 2s of vettel, but that's not relevant.

[TALBO]

that's my point exactly. vettel once passed massa picked up 2 seconds against the laps he was stuck behind massa. obviously when stuck behind massa his times will mimic massas. once in clear air he showed his pace. my point is, if he was that much faster he should have passed him waaay back, knowing full well that circulating as massas slow-ish pace was killing his race. not waited until massa was completely fked 4 laps from the end. and at that point massa's pace went way out the window. a lot more than 2s of vettel, but that's not relevant.

I understand what you're saying and Massa did hold up Vettel, just by not as much as you're saying. Massa started fuel conservation almost immediately into the 3rd stint.

[Roy]

Yeh, i dont think the Ferrari pace was all that bad the whole race. I mean, when it all went to cow manure for Massa how far was he behind Button? It was less then 20 seconds so a huge improvement, and i suspect they had trouble with KERS as well as he wasnt seeming to use it every lap.

Which raises a question, does KERS affect fuel economy at all?

As for all the politicing at the moment, i think Maz s going to have to swallow some pride and step down from the rubbish they are proposing. Teams are agaisnt it, fans are against it..... all rather silly really

[NISMO]

Yeh, i dont think the Ferrari pace was all that bad the whole race. I mean, when it all went to cow manure for Massa how far was he behind Button? It was less then 20 seconds so a huge improvement, and i suspect they had trouble with KERS as well as he wasnt seeming to use it every lap.

Which raises a question, does KERS affect fuel economy at all?

As for all the politicing at the moment, i think Maz s going to have to swallow some pride and step down from the rubbish they are proposing. Teams are agaisnt it, fans are against it..... all rather silly really

It would have to given the extra weight, or would that be compensated for by a reduced fuel useage during KERSage?

Massa's problem was with the actuall refueling though in that they thought all the fuel that was supposed to go in the car did, but it actually hadn't which they found out through the weight of the car. (Which apprantly is done at the end of each pit stop) which is why they knew way before the last few laps that he was short. I don't think it was a useage miscalculation.

[TALBO]

It would have to given the extra weight, or would that be compensated for by a reduced fuel useage during KERSage?

I'm thinking probably not because the engine is still at full tilt with the extra coming in from KERS...... that's when it works however! Kimi apparently had issues with KERS again even before the GP started.

[GriZZly]

I beg to differ, i think KERS will increase fuel usage as your still at WOT and then youre at higher revs for longer once you have used the KERS + the added weight thing..

EDIT: Just red talbos post , agreed

[jase-r34]

If Massa's KERS was playing up and he was not able to use it every lap, then surely Vettel in his quicker car should have been able to find a way past in the gazillion laps he spent behind him if he wanted it badly enough...

IMO Vettel botched his own chances off the start, mind you he certainly wasn't helped by his team it would seem. Much like Webber wasn't helped a couple of races ago...

[benm]

KERS can only be used over 100km/h and for a max of 6sec per lap. That is why Massa didn't use KERS from the start line into turn 1. What I absolutely don't understand though is if a driver can only use it for a max of 6sec per lap why the hell wouldnt you use up that 6sec of kers every single lap? Doesn't matter if you are lapping by yourself or trying to catch the guy 20sec infront, use it every single lap otherwise its completely wasted.

Kimi's KERS was working at the beginning, he dropped back because he couldnt see the start lights.

Webbers strategy was nice, im quite surprised Vettel wasnt put onto the same strategy. Instead of Webber following Vettel whom was following Massa they fueled Webber long so that he could get by them by doing laps in open space, as was seen by Vettel that immediately picked up 2sec a lap once past Massa near the end.

Nice slip of the tongue by Webber too at the end just before going onto the podium

[Roy]

I read that KERS kicks in after 80km/h, considering how quickly these cars accelerate to 80km/h then its no realy issue. They have the extra torque and grunt to pull up to 30mts on the straight over the weekend. Well thats what was publised anyway

[dezz]

It would have to given the extra weight, or would that be compensated for by a reduced fuel useage during KERSage?

Massa's problem was with the actuall refueling though in that they thought all the fuel that was supposed to go in the car did, but it actually hadn't which they found out through the weight of the car. (Which apprantly is done at the end of each pit stop) which is why they knew way before the last few laps that he was short. I don't think it was a useage miscalculation.

They weigh the fuel rig, not the car

[Ant97GTR]

Nice slip of the tongue by Webber too at the end just before going onto the podium

Ooooo I missed that...do tell

[benm]

JB, RB and MW jumped out of their cars, got weighed then went upstairs to grab the bridgestone hats and dry themselves off with a towel as happens after every gp and they start talking to each other....

RB: I dont know how I lost the race

JB: I didnt think my 2 stop strategy would work

MW: Felipe f*cked up

He then realised the BBC camera was on him and immediately apologised lol.

[Roy]

I think the call was Felipe f***d up Vettels race

[TALBO]

Wtf's with Rubens little dummy spit...

Now we have RBR joining Toyota, Ferrari and BMWthreatening to leave the sport over Max's 2010 budget cap!

[Marco-R34GTT]

Sparks will fly, Max and Bernie will sook and rage... Luca will flippin the you-know-what, Mario, Dietrich and John will soon follow suit. The GPWC boys will race in the shade if CVC's lawsuits blot out the sun...

[Marco-R34GTT]

Ferrari's Board of Directors, chaired by Luca di Montezemolo, held a meeting on Tuesday at their Maranello headquarters to discuss business matters, but high on the order were the recent decisions taken by the FIA's World Motor Sport Council regarding the controversial budget cap option beginning next year.

Under the 2010 regulations, teams opting to limit their budgets to 45 million Euros ($60m US) would enjoy much greater technical freedom than other teams, effectively creating a 'two-tier' series within Formula One.

Many teams find the matter unacceptable as it currently stands, and the FIA's deadline of May 29th in order to file entries for the 2010 championship only added pressure to an already volatile situation with some teams speaking of boycotts.

Today Ferrari has boldly stated that, unless common ground can be found, it will retire from Formula One at the end of the current season.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...512175405.shtml

[TALBO]

I'm hoping they can find some common ground somewhere. If Ferrari do indeed leave F1, I for 1 will be devestated.