2009 F1 Season

[Beer Baron]

yeah very sad accident for massa. I could not believe how dumb the 2 aussie commentators were. they watched it about 10 times. then they showed two guys at maclaren one was miming what happend saying "it hit him in the head" and rusty or mckonkin goes, yeah I think he's saying his head hit the steering wheel. you moron. after watching it for about the third time it was clear he was out to it as he didn't steer the car at all and his hands and head were limp and just bouncing around as he was heading towards the corner and then the wall. then they said he was downshifting. lol were they watching the same bloody footage? he was clearly coasting unconscious or semi-conscious at best. looking at the way the wheels kept locking and unlocking id say it was something like the anti stall kicking in (low wheel and engine speed in high gear?) or possibly just his feet resting on both pedals. after seeing the maclaren mime and then watching the reply again I could see the object hit him and you can see it flash past the onboard camera after striking him and you can see the top of his helmet forced up by impact. sticking throttle my arse. why was it just coasting then? and why were the revs fairly low as it sat in the wall... man it took them a long time to get it right.

I would say it's quite possible massa won't race again. he's apparently had quite a bad skull fracture and the accident wasn't too good either, especially when your body is all limp and not prepared for an impact. But I do hope he does recover and race again, it would be a cruel end to his career. I wouldn't wish something like that on anyone.

I couldn't believe alonso then lost a a wheel after what has happened this past week with surtees and massa. did you see how high it bounced? it could have been trouble if there was another car near him, or if it had made it back on to the track. it was very lucky it just came to rest against the wall. I was shitting myself thinking "oh no, not another one...".

as for webber, I thought his usual luck had come back to him. he got passed by the kers powered homoton like he was standing still (another 80hp will do that) and then had a lovely pit stop fark up that cost him the place to kimi and nearly earned him a drive through to go with it for the un-safe release. he did pull one very nice move around the outside, I think it was on rosberg? memory a bit hazy.

he was lucky to get 3rd due to alonso pulling out etc. I'm not sure going onto the harder tyre for the longer middle stint was the way to go. he probably should have stuck with the majority of guys who used the super soft for as much as possible and just used the soft for a short final stint. but I guess it did give him that good pace in the last stages, but not enough to get 2nd back from kimi that he lost in the pits.

it's great to see webber up there 2nd in the WDC though! who would have thought last year that more than half way through this season webber would be 2nd on the points table!?! also good to see he's now ahead of vettel. and even before vettels problems with the car in this race he was being out raced by webber anyway as vettel was already a fair way down the field.

with a little bit of GOOD luck and some good strategy and driving it's not impossible that we could see webber as this years WDC. it may be a bit of wistful thinking but if ever he's going to do it this year is as good as any.

also some stats to consider if you are running red bull racing. webber has finished ahead of vettel 7 out of 10 races this year. and the 3 times that vettel did manage to beat webber two of them were webber finishing 2nd with vettel winning, and only one was a bad one with webber 11th to vettels 2nd place. so out of the 10 races webber has beaten him in 7 and in 2 was only 1 place behind (total 4 points there) and once was soundly beaten. and that one beating was where webber got knocked out early due to poor qualy strategy and qualified 18th, but still managed 11th place.

webber has improved or equalled his grid position on 9 out of 10 races. inc 1 pole/win and one 3rd/3rd. he's only gone backwards once which was australia where he went 8th down to 12th.

vettel has done the opposite. in 6 races out of 10 he's dropped places off his starting grid. he's had two races where he was equal (both pole/wins) and only 2 races where he improved his position.

so webber has only out qualified vettel twice in 10 races but has beaten him home 7 times, that speaks well for webber holding his seat I reckon.

I think the stats show vettel has a slight (very slight) edge on outright pace on webber but as a package and as a racer webber is a better driver. he's able to keep a cooler head in the races and make his results count.

in years gone by webber would qualify well (and often light) and then just tumble back through the field. it's amazing to see him now often qualifying heavy with race strategy in mind and managing to move his way up from his grid spot.

one thing is for sure. it will be a very interesting final 7 races of the season...

[hrd-hr30]

you're right, can't tell what's going to happen inthe next 7 races. Would never have picked McLaren and Ferrari to race so well this weekend. Its been a good season. Early domination by Brawn, RBR gradually catching them up, and now Ferrari and McLaren came from basically out of nowhere and Brawn are struggling. I'm loving the testing ban! Really has mixed things up.

yep, Webber's going really well and consistently out racing Vettel. I didn't think it would happen that way this season. Good on him! But it will be hard for him to catch Button's lead if the McLaren and Ferrari keep up the race pace they showed this weekend and taking the big points.

Good to see the Ice (cream) Man get a good result for Ferrari. Hope Massa pulls through OK.

WRT to Alonso and the wheel coming off, Renault have been banned from the next GP but are appealing the decision:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77358

[wolverine]

Raikonnen didn't receive a penalty for his contact with Vettel.

Interesting how contact one week is a drive thru penalty then the next week it is carry on racing.

They are consistent in their inconsistency.

[Beer Baron]

Raikonnen didn't receive a penalty for his contact with Vettel.

Interesting how contact one week is a drive thru penalty then the next week it is carry on racing.

They are consistent in their inconsistency.

yeah I could not believe it when I saw the words "incident involving car 4 will be investigated AFTER the race" WTF? it happend on the first corner of the first lap, it's not like it was 3 laps from the end of the race and no time to adjudicate or implement a penalty. to me it's the same as the webber thing. slightly dodgey driving, contact made, neither car damaged (although in this case it looks like vettels car was damaged and eventually failed because of it), and kimi actually gained from his contact (vettel got out of the gas and kimi took the place) where as in webbers case he lost ground). very, very inconsistent. everyone screaming that webber should have been punished (and he was) I hope they are screaming that kimi should have been given a drive through, and failing that should have had 30sec added to his finishing time. it's interesting to note that both the webber decision and the kimi decision both negatively impacted on Webber! had kimi been penalised webber would have another 2 points right now.

I'm not sure on renault being excluded. it was a fk up, and alonso probably should have just parked it knowing full well that any left hand movement of the car could see the car and wheel part company. I guess in the current climate of henry surtees death and the massa accident it's a pretty touchy subject having a wheel flying around.

[BigDirtyJase]

I missed out watching the GP last night (was a mates house) but I'll try and watch the replay sometime this week. I can remember me and my mates laughing about the Massa crash when we saw it but didn't know what caused it (was watching it a the Lion Hotel at Melbourne Central and was a fair distance from the TV Screen). I thought it was driver error, it was only until I read it later on that night and gone wow. Watched the video and it just looked frightening. Componded with Surtee's death it just puts F1 safety again into question (although IMO these were just freak accidents).

[hrd-hr30]

Raikonnen didn't receive a penalty for his contact with Vettel.

Interesting how contact one week is a drive thru penalty then the next week it is carry on racing.

They are consistent in their inconsistency.

Very different circumstances. Very different incidents. Weber was 'blocking' someone from passing him on a straight, whether intentionally or not, but I find it hard to believe you would swerve around aimlessly not knowing where the other cars were... Anyway... Kimi was alongside someone else in a corner who squeezed him a little. It was 3 wide at the exit of that corner. the 2 incidents are completely incomparable. And don't forget Weber was also the beneficiary of not being penalised for that dangerous pit release by his team in this race too.

yeah pretty sure the exclusion is more for Alonso carrying on with an obviously loose wheel or for his team not telling him to stop, rather than the accidental incorrect fitment of the wheel in the pit stop. His race was done well before the point that the wheel flew off the car anyway. Sensible thing to do is park it before the wheel flies off endangering people. I was surprised at the time that he kept going, wondering where his wheel was going to end up when it did fall off.

[Beer Baron]

yeah I know webber got let off a little with the unsafe release, but considering neither car touched and no one was advantaged or disadvantaged by it then was it really 'un-safe'?

still kimi made a big move into turn 1. got out of shape, bumped into vettel, gained a place and damaged vettels car. I know the two incidents are different but I have two points.

1. they should have been adjudicated in the same way. ie, reviewed immediately during the race and the decision broadcast as soon as it was made.

2. given that he gained advantage from the collision, and he also disadvantaged another racer (ultimately ending vettels race altogether) I think a penalty is certainly fair enough, especially since the webber incident caused no one any damage or disadvantage at all.

[lingeringsoul]

wow......renault banned from the next GP......I believe it's his home GP?......I'll say at least half of the spectators will now want refunds.

[dezz]

and then had a lovely pit stop fark up that cost him the place to kimi and nearly earned him a drive through to go with it for the un-safe release.

I don't think it cost him anything. From where I was sitting, it just looked like the lollipop man saw Kimi coming, and got a bit ahead of the refueller in lifting the lollipop. Once he realised the pit stop wasn't complete he dropped the lollipop again, and then released Webber once it was done. I don't think it was an un-safe release, but it was very close, obviously because the lollipop man wasn't keen to let Kimi through un-contested..

Raikonnen didn't receive a penalty for his contact with Vettel.

Interesting how contact one week is a drive thru penalty then the next week it is carry on racing.

They are consistent in their inconsistency.

Pretty sure the 'incident' they were investigating was on the straight, before the turn, where Kimi moved right. I don't think you can penalise him for that considering the fact that if he didn't move right, he would've rear ended Webber as he was gaining on him pretty quickly at that stage (KERS).

As for what happened on the exit of turn 1, as far as I'm concerned, 3 cars were racing, Kimi either copped a knock from the 3rd driver on the outside of the turn (Webber maybe?) or just got on the gas too hard and stepped it out which steered him into Vettel.

[wolverine]

What i saw in both races were "racing incidents" but one week we see penalties adjudicated on the spot and next week we see being investigated after the race.

The consistency is the issue.

Dezz was quali on at 11pm in Melbourne after all? It was definitely 9.55pm in Sydney.

Either way it was a good race from the point of view that there are more cars in the mix that can win a race.

[Gts-t]

Hamilton is back, long live the king '

Would have been nice if he let webber through tho and then held kimi back

Get well soon massa, ill miss the guy if that was his last race weekend. I wonder if they were in the hunt for the constuctors would ferrai put in their backup driver, do they even have one?

Edited July 27, 2009 by Gts30t

[dezz]

What i saw in both races were "racing incidents" but one week we see penalties adjudicated on the spot and next week we see being investigated after the race.

The consistency is the issue.

Dezz was quali on at 11pm in Melbourne after all? It was definitely 9.55pm in Sydney.

Either way it was a good race from the point of view that there are more cars in the mix that can win a race.

Yeah 11pm here.

Hamilton is back, long live the king '

Would have been nice if he let webber through tho and then held kimi back

Get well soon massa, ill miss the guy if that was his last race weekend. I wonder if they were in the hunt for the constuctors would ferrai put in their backup driver, do they even have one?

I was wondering the same thing re backup driver...Only thing I could come up with (and obviously no idea how true it is) is that at the beginning of the race meet a team would have to enter its 2 drivers. So at the next GP Ferrari could enter a driver in Massa's place, but as he was already entered for Hungary, he can't be replaced if he needs to pull out..

Anyone got any more insight on that?

[wolverine]

Piquet might be free for that weekend.

[sh@un]

I wonder if they were in the hunt for the constuctors would ferrai put in their backup driver, do they even have one?

prolly the guy who has Massa's old job of F1 test driver

[BezerkR32]

The Stig????

Piquet might be free for that weekend.

[TALBO]

^^^ Lots of LOL's

[Kaido_RR]

BMW to quit!

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...729083333.shtml

[Beer Baron]

well it's been getting around alot, but I personally can't see it happening. there is nothing really to gain in it for him. most likely he'd be mid field at best and it just takes all the 'drama' out of his original retirement. I don't think he'll ever race an F1 car again. Having said all that I'd LOVE it to happen. To see him race again would be fantastic. I cherish every race I saw him in. A few more would be great.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Fark, if Nelson was half a chance, then even I would expect a phone call from Montezemolo sometime in the next few days!

[TALBO]

Will we see Kubica in a red car next year....?