Police Plan To Seize Cars From P-plate Speeders

[nIsMo86]

I'd say that the government makes more money off smokers than they make off speeding/car related fines.

No way they'll stop people speeding and no way they'll ban smoking.

[scathing]

Tangentally related to the idea of harsher penalties for P plater "hoons":

THE NSW Opposition has pledged to end the "law and order auction" in a dramatic break with the tradition of promising to increase punishments....

The Coalition's justice spokesman, Greg Smith, who entered Parliament in 2007 with a reputation as a tough criminal prosecutor, said hardline sentencing and prisons policies - including those of his own party - have failed.

In an exclusive interview, Mr Smith told the Herald he would invest more money and resources in rehabilitation to break the cycle in which almost half of all NSW criminals re-offend after their release.

Last month, Mr Smith quietly released a critique of the Rees Government's law and order policies, headed: "More jails not the best answer: money better spent on rehabilitation."

He argued then: "While the NSW Liberals/Nationals adhere to the view that punishment must fit the crime, there needs to be far more emphasis by the State Labor Government on rehabilitation programs, which give the prisoner a better chance of going straight, once released."

(Full article here)

In other words, rather than just punishing young drivers for doing stupid things by taking away their liberty (or cars) and calling it quits, even a conservative politician says it's preferable to try and educate people in a better way of behaving.

[Yo-Yo]

^ only difference is that institutionalising criminal offenders takes a toll on the states' coffers (how much more to rehabilitate them, all the while with no firm guarantee they will not re-offend) where as introducing all these hoon laws can only add to the revenue. The Govt is an entreprenuer, they recognised that there was a substantial amount of morons on the road (both young and old) and knew they could cash in.

"So what's your solution Yo-Yo!?" I hear you ask my fair SAU brothers? why bring in 'a Clockwork Orange' style education system in secondary school for the young kids so if they even think of doing a burnout they'll vomit all over their bobjane/ozzytyres chrome wheels with atrocious offset.

Hell, if the govt. paid me $50 per head I'd strap them down myself to a chair, force their eyes open and play beethoven's symphony ad nauseum

welcome to 2009; the year of the 25 yr age min. for going for your P's, with an overpaid govt. appointed supervisor riding shotgun everytime you hop behind the wheel who will draconianly ensure you do the full 55,000 hours of night driving required to sit your P's

and Madonna trying even harder in vain to escape the fact that she's an old tart

[Kujotk]

^ only difference is that institutionalising criminal offenders takes a toll on the states' coffers (how much more to rehabilitate them, all the while with no firm guarantee they will not re-offend) where as introducing all these hoon laws can only add to the revenue. The Govt is an entreprenuer, they recognised that there was a substantial amount of morons on the road (both young and old) and knew they could cash in.

"So what's your solution Yo-Yo!?" I hear you ask my fair SAU brothers? why bring in 'a Clockwork Orange' style education system in secondary school for the young kids so if they even think of doing a burnout they'll vomit all over their bobjane/ozzytyres chrome wheels with atrocious offset.

Hell, if the govt. paid me $50 per head I'd strap them down myself to a chair, force their eyes open and play beethoven's symphony ad nauseum

welcome to 2009; the year of the 25 yr age min. for going for your P's, with an overpaid govt. appointed supervisor riding shotgun everytime you hop behind the wheel who will draconianly ensure you do the full 55,000 hours of night driving required to sit your P's

and Madonna trying even harder in vain to escape the fact that she's an old tart

hahahah +1

[scathing]

^ only difference is that institutionalising criminal offenders takes a toll on the states' coffers (how much more to rehabilitate them, all the while with no firm guarantee they will not re-offend) where as introducing all these hoon laws can only add to the revenue.

The government needs to buy land to put all these impounded cars, pay towies, and employ staff to look after them. The fines chargedWithout their own transportation, they also need to invest in public transport or they'll lose their jobs and go on the dole.

If the idiots also kill someone useful while driving like f**kwits, that's also a net negative effect on the state as well.

The Govt is an entreprenuer, they recognised that there was a substantial amount of morons on the road (both young and old) and knew they could cash in.

If you want to talk revenue raising, keeping idiots on the roads and just continuing to fine them would be a lot more financially prudent than getting them off the roads and cutting off an income source.

draconianly ensure you do the full 55,000 hours of night driving required to sit your P's

I'm all for novice drivers actually having to gain a lot of supervised experience in a wide range of situations before being permitted to drive unattended, that has been verified by an independent (and hopefully qualified) source rather than dodgied up by bad-habit-possessing friends and family.

[FATAZZ]

I been a passenger in the car of a newly P plated driver lately. I'm baffled as to how they got their license.

21 before you can get you're L's.

[Schoer_gtst]

Bring it on.

Just spent 10 minutes thinking why a P plater (or any driver) would need to be driving 20k's over the limit and came up with none.

To work it must be a black and white law. No judges discretion.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree there cant be judges discretion has to be enforced regardless who the person is and i think it should be put in place for all drivers caught doing 20ks over the speed limit, if you want to speed do it on the track.

I have also done advance driving coarse but that isnt going to help you when there is so many dickheads on the road because its not yourself you have to worry about but their reckless driving.

I think they should take their cars inpound for 3 mths and if they get caught again take their cars and crush them in front of them. Then hit em with loss of licence for period of time plus a nice big fine.

I really hope it does work because im sick of being targeted just because i drive a skyline. Maybe with this it will get the wankers off our roads and people like that 15yr girl from bondi wont have to die.

[GTScotT]

I regularly drive from sydney to lismore up the pacific highway and in my expeciences the rate of overtaking when im at the speed limit is about 20 to 1, as in 20 fully licened cars vs 1 p plater.

however, im not realy against any law they bring in as long as its fair, they want to increase points for speeding, fine yet dont make it just for red p's make it for everyone, they want to take cars for 20 over the limit, fine take cars, yet again, off every one the road doing it, not just p platers, target everyone and use the same set of laws for everyone

[Yo-Yo]

The government needs to buy land to put all these impounded cars, pay towies, and employ staff to look after them. The fines chargedWithout their own transportation, they also need to invest in public transport or they'll lose their jobs and go on the dole.

If the idiots also kill someone useful while driving like f**kwits, that's also a net negative effect on the state as well

If you want to talk revenue raising, keeping idiots on the roads and just continuing to fine them would be a lot more financially prudent than getting them off the roads and cutting off an income source.

I'm all for novice drivers actually having to gain a lot of supervised experience in a wide range of situations before being permitted to drive unattended, that has been verified by an independent (and hopefully qualified) source rather than dodgied up by bad-habit-possessing friends and family.

nah, Knowing Labor the work would probably be contracted out to a private company ala cross city tunnel.

It's been said before in these types of discussions but In the states driver training is part of the high school curriculum with proper trained (hopefully) supervisors. I wonder why it hasn't taken off or at least trialled here

The govt can keep adding all the bans and fines they want, it's still not going to stop braindead idiots operating heavy machinery. If they want to add bans/fines they should at least come full circle and actually try something to change driver attitudes, not just taxmoney funded tv ads.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Yo-Yo

[DaGr81]

Weren't they going to look at overhauling the points system as too many nsw drivers were loosing their licences a few months ago? They were going to make it 2 points lost for speeding not 3.....

[bt23]

glad i'm no longer a p-plater

[d00dz]

http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2009/0..._wheels_clamped

lol

Two P-platers caught street racing will have their cars' wheels clamped as part of a trial program to kerb unsafe driving behaviour.

[eeiko321]

Driver education may help the stop splitting their cars in half but even with that there's too many variables, I've had the advanced driver training done, plus a fair few skid pan stuff (wet and dry) but still if they are going to be idiots they'll still make mistakes

exactly, i support this new law if it comes out.

sorry guys to sound like a Geek.

but Driver education isn't going to help "Stupidity" and that can ONLY be helped with TOUGHER laws and more strict punishment.

P-plate power restrictions i believe have helped a fair bit i beleive. but its the mentality of the people in such low social areas.

like there would be more hoons in AUBURN, BANKSTOWN or Blacktown than people in Vaucluse, Pt Piper or Chatswood due to the class of people.

more Punishment........so this rule of impouding speeding will teach many kids a lesson.

a good point to back my point is...

on this same story for the Bondi Girls death. police had indicated a few more irresponsible people.

e.g a GIRL at the age of 23 a repeat offender has had her licence suspended to 2025!!! but was caught driving again.

and the editor commented "when will they ever learn?"

so everyone here mentioning MORE DRIVER EDUCATION.......you think that will fix stupidity like this?!?!?!

well i say theres nothing a jail term cant fix....

so this Haj guy with the Integra should have his liscence suspended for a long time.. & a hefty fine...then he will have that time to think about what he done.

[eeiko321]

don't ya know its the new fad to wrap your car around a tree/pole whilst your on your P's. bonus points if you can get one of your passengers killed and perfect if you get everybody killed except yourself.

LOL

yeah i heard about that

its Bonus points to kill young people when your on your P's and less points to kill older people. and "ULTRAKILL!" when you kill padestrians on your P's

Deathrace 2000!!!!!

[GoldZilla]

P-plate power restrictions i believe have helped a fair bit i beleive. but its the mentality of the people in such low social areas.

like there would be more hoons in AUBURN, BANKSTOWN or Blacktown than people in Vaucluse, Pt Piper or Chatswood due to the class of people.

That's bullsh!t.

The people in the higher socio-economic areas might simply be in a better position to afford safer, newer cars - that's the difference!

Who's more likely to be injured or die in a crash, the P-plater kid in the 20 year old VL Turbo, or the P-plater kid in the 4 year old Audi RS4?

[scathing]

Driver education isn't going to help "Stupidity" and that can ONLY be helped with TOUGHER laws and more strict punishment.

well i say theres nothing a jail term cant fix....

Is that because punishment without rehabilitation has worked so well for other serious crimes? I mean, people who go to prison never re-offend, right?

I mean, a 70% recidivism rate isn't that bad. 3 people out of 10 people who go to prison not ending up back there has got to mean something. Back in 2006 it was only 43% of prisoners re-offending but hey, who's counting?

P-plate power restrictions i believe have helped a fair bit i beleive.

Absolutely. In the year after the P plate restrictions were brought in, we had a 37% increase in the number of P platers who didn't reoffend - mainly because they were permanently imprisoned in a coffin after their first offense. Not only didn't they hoon anymore, but they didn't commit any other crimes either. Win-win, right?

People as smart and "geeky" as yourself would immediately put the correlation between people not being allowed to drive "high performance" vehicles and increasing the death toll as a clear indication that the system is working well. Just like how recidivism rates have gone up in line with prison sentence increases.

I guess people just aren't as brilliant as you, and too reliant on irrelevant details like "facts" to come to conclusions.

P-plate power restrictions i believe have helped a fair bit i beleive. but its the mentality of the people in such low social areas.

like there would be more hoons in AUBURN, BANKSTOWN or Blacktown than people in Vaucluse, Pt Piper or Chatswood due to the class of people.

OK, I can't hold the sarcasm up any longer. Trying to pretend to agree with your nonsense is actually hurting my brain.

As someone who lives on the North Shore but visits a lot of people out west, I can only assume you've never been to Chatswood. Or perhaps the rarefied air in the neighbourhood is reducing the oxygen stream to your brain. Chatswood's probably the worst place on the North Shore for running into hoons doing happy laps around the only mainstream cinema in the area.

You get less out-and-out racing than you do in the west, but then the North Shore's roads are so narrow, winding and full of speed humps that you really can't do straight line drags like you can on the Great Western Highway. That said, there's still plenty of kids who'll want to give it a short squirt if you line up next to them in a nice car.

It also helps when you (or your parents) are rich enough to be able to grease the legal wheels of justice. John Singleton managed to get off a charge of doing 160km/hr on a public road in his Bentley because his lawyer convinced the court it was OK because it was a sports car and therefore safe. How's that for the mentality of people of certain socio-economic levels? The law doesn't apply to him when it doesn't suit him.

Anton Faber-Castell (yes, the pencil company family) got busted doing 200km/hr on the F3 while on his P's, in his dad's BMW 7 Series. He kept his license, got put on a good behaviour bond, and no was conviction recorded.

You wouldn't even know that they'd been doing stuff like this if you didn't read the news since the convictions aren't on their permanent records, but as drivers the only difference between these high socio-economical hoons and the guys you're heaping shit on is the fact that they can afford to buy their way out of trouble.

Edited January 12, 2009 by scathing

[DaGr81]

Hang on man you can't say that about bankstown auburn etc hving more hoons, every area has it's far share, but I live in west hoxton (west Sydney) there's heaps and heaps of vls in my area,plus there's a balance around here alot of our houses are worth 1mil + there's a guy who owns an r8 next door, and I've seen atleast 5 ferrari's and 3 porsches in peoples drive way getting washed and waxed and admired, anyway my point is every area has it's hoons.... There's also a guy with a black skyline and the starcorp rims anyone here? Your on it green p's ironcally

[eeiko321]

Is that because punishment without rehabilitation has worked so well for other serious crimes? I mean, people who go to prison never re-offend, right?

I mean, a 70% recidivism rate isn't that bad. 3 people out of 10 people who go to prison not ending up back there has got to mean something. Back in 2006 it was only 43% of prisoners re-offending but hey, who's counting?

Absolutely. In the year after the P plate restrictions were brought in, we had a 37% increase in the number of P platers who didn't reoffend - mainly because they were permanently imprisoned in a coffin after their first offense. Not only didn't they hoon anymore, but they didn't commit any other crimes either. Win-win, right?

People as smart and "geeky" as yourself would immediately put the correlation between people not being allowed to drive "high performance" vehicles and increasing the death toll as a clear indication that the system is working well. Just like how recidivism rates have gone up in line with prison sentence increases.

I guess people just aren't as brilliant as you, and too reliant on irrelevant details like "facts" to come to conclusions.

OK, I can't hold the sarcasm up any longer. Trying to pretend to agree with your nonsense is actually hurting my brain.

As someone who lives on the North Shore but visits a lot of people out west, I can only assume you've never been to Chatswood. Or perhaps the rarefied air in the neighbourhood is reducing the oxygen stream to your brain. Chatswood's probably the worst place on the North Shore for running into hoons doing happy laps around the only mainstream cinema in the area.

You get less out-and-out racing than you do in the west, but then the North Shore's roads are so narrow, winding and full of speed humps that you really can't do straight line drags like you can on the Great Western Highway. That said, there's still plenty of kids who'll want to give it a short squirt if you line up next to them in a nice car.

It also helps when you (or your parents) are rich enough to be able to grease the legal wheels of justice. John Singleton managed to get off a charge of doing 160km/hr on a public road in his Bentley because his lawyer convinced the court it was OK because it was a sports car and therefore safe. How's that for the mentality of people of certain socio-economic levels? The law doesn't apply to him when it doesn't suit him.

Anton Faber-Castell (yes, the pencil company family) got busted doing 200km/hr on the F3 while on his P's, in his dad's BMW 7 Series. He kept his license, got put on a good behaviour bond, and no was conviction recorded.

You wouldn't even know that they'd been doing stuff like this if you didn't read the news since the convictions aren't on their permanent records, but as drivers the only difference between these high socio-economical hoons and the guys you're heaping shit on is the fact that they can afford to buy their way out of trouble.

Firstly.....why are you here?

isnt this a "Forum"? where people share their thoughts and 2 cents?!

if youd notice, most peoples post in here are usless comments anyways. most of the threads arent mechanical related to solve issues.

anyhow...by you being a smart ass and talking shit on this forum, would that really help you as a person???

at the end of the day......tougher Penalties, is the way to go. especially for P platers as they are inexperienced and most are young.

so whatever the government decides.........good, because ill tell you what...its not going to be any more leanient....

NSW are more and more less tolerant to hoons. so whatever they decide...will be more harsh.

why? due to the statistcs and yes..FACTS... that shows most MALES on Ps are the causes of racing and death.

leme guess...your one of those "driver education!" Faries?

well as i said....FACTS and statistics show that young males on Ps are generally the culprits compared to other percentages.

where as women are less likely...

why would you need more driver education if most women can actually drive more sensible?! you have a think about it.

[eeiko321]

That's bullsh!t.

The people in the higher socio-economic areas might simply be in a better position to afford safer, newer cars - that's the difference!

Who's more likely to be injured or die in a crash, the P-plater kid in the 20 year old VL Turbo, or the P-plater kid in the 4 year old Audi RS4?

well

theres good and bad in all areas.

but the mentality of each suburb can variy in different percentage.

regarding hooning...it seems so that way anyhow.

i reside in Sunny Auburnon..

and beleive me, you should see what its like here. its "Hecticz Cuz!"

think about it.... it does depend on the area.......

some areas have higher percentage of elderly compared to younger.

the old codgers are less likely to hoon in the blocks they live in...compared to areas with more kids on P's whom grow up withought parent guidance.

anyhow, at the end of the day...people can disagre to what i say...since this is a forum....anyone is entitled to thier own 2 cents.

but we all know.........Rules and regulations with driving will be alot more strict thanks to the IDIOT p-platers who ruined it for all....

Power Restrictions were a start...impounding vehicles are becoming more frequent...& now talks of impounding or even possibly Crushing or resale of vehicles due to just mere speeding over the limit......... its just gonna get worse....

the public doesnt support young hoons...particularly the P platers ...so they will back up what the police force will intend to bring out.

end of story

[SHANE666]

I'm never one the whinge or complain. And yes, the following looks like a massive hissy fit BUT....I've been planning to say it somewhere.

I understand where the police and general public is coming from.

From my own personal experience, I find that its full licensed drivers that intimidate P-Plate drivers to drive faster and more recklessly (watch everyone hit me back on that statement). During the christmas period I was driving up Woodville Road at 60km/h (probably a bit less). Anyway i stuck to the limit. Behind me is a guy in a Nissan Pulsar. He was right up on me. We get to the lights and all I hear is "F*ck you d*ckhead. You got all this power and you move like a f*cking turtle. What a f*ckin waste...(and he went on like Gordon Ramsay had just tasted McDonalds' Salads Plus Menu)" I put my finger up at him and let him go. Now Imagine another 17,18 or 19 year old...in fact...not many males would put up with that sort of rubbish. I had a similar encounter one night on Parramatta Road with a 50 year old male in a Ford XR8 who harassed me at every traffic light up to Homebush Bay.

Anyway, Ten minutes later on the Horsley Drive I'm doing the speed limit. I see several full licensed drivers drive past me at 70, 80, and 90km/h. Where the hell are the cops? I bet as soon as I hit 70 a cop would have been on my case, the story would have been on the news, and my dad wouldve been calling me an idiot on the front page of The Daily Telegraph the next day. It's a bit difficult to stick to the speed limit when every other car on the road is flying past, and giving ego-filled teenagers a dirty stare and tongue lashing at the traffic lights.

If the majority of the total death toll was caused by P-Plate drivers, then I would totally understand...come down on them harder. BUT one P-Plater has a major acident, and the whole of the general public chucks a fit and scream "ALL P-Platers are idiots. If they speed we should confiscate their cars." My question is - did no non-provisional licensed driver have an accident? Rubbish! This whole issue has been blown up by the media.

We drive on the same roads. We have to follow the same rules. Heck, we even have to pay the same toll. But why is there no equality amongst Provisional licensed drivers in the law?

my 2 cents, please share your thoughts.