10yr Old Speeding Fine

[GTR-N1]

Hey man, im so sorry to hear bout this it must have come as quite a shock.

please look in your local paper, the free one that comes in the mail; i believe i saw an add for a specialist lawyer who deals with traffic offences and offers free consult to see if you have a case.

10 years is pathetic as we all know that the carbon paper they use for receits fade over a period of months, they dont last years unless you zip lock bag them...

I now have a new found respect to keep the bloody parking ticket receits even a year after ive paid.

Ditto ^^^ Good advice!

[Kujotk]

what bullshit,

but from what i understand is in Australia a broken law never gets forgotten and by law they can ask for the money if they have reason to think it wasn't paid, even if its a false claim and even if its 100 years later (theoretically). All you can do is show proof that you have paiid, ethically it is beyond reasonable doubt that no one would keep a fine reciept for 10 years so a decent hearing should rule in your favour. Although this being Australia annd seeing that our judicial system is pretty much farked I would still brace myself for paying the fine, it would probably be allot easier in the long run aswell.

keep us updated

good luck

[~Hypnotik~]

If I were you and couldn't win in court, i'd rather go on an all expenses paid holiday to jail for 14 days ($100 per day is paid off your fines) than pay the government the fine. You'll get meals cooked for you, have plenty of time to exercise and a story to tell the kids! :happy:

[thedriver]

Thanks for your input peeps.

If I were you and couldn't win in court, i'd rather go on an all expenses paid holiday to jail for 14 days ($100 per day is paid off your fines) than pay the government the fine. You'll get meals cooked for you, have plenty of time to exercise and a story to tell the kids! :P

That cetainly is an option. But the SDRO can enforce my license be cancelled, goods be recovered to repay the debt or as you suggest imprison me to pay the fine. I'm not sure I want the sore arse though they may come with the two weeks of bend over service. Or the three inch scar in my abnomen from the shanking. Or more importantly, the record on my file that says I served time in prison. Not so good for overseas travel.

I spoke with the SDRO further on Friday and it seems they rejected my Annulment order on the grounds that it does not comply with their guidelines. They haven't declined it, they have rejected it; they are even refunding my Annulment Application fee of $50. However, I have read the appropriate sections of the Fines Act 1996 No 99 (Part 3, Division 5, Section 49, 2c) and they should not have rejected my annulment.

It states:

"

The State Debt Recovery Office, when dealing with an application for annulment, must grant the application and annul the penalty notice enforcement order if satisfied that:

having regard to the circumstances of the case, there is other just cause why the application should be granted.

"

So I'll be resubmitting my Annulment application and see how that goes. Certainly the fact that the SDRO keeps giving me wrong advice or making mistakes with regards to their guidelines should weigh in my favour in court.

[nizmonut]

I have a 10 year old speeding fine the SDRO are asking me to pay which I believe I have already paid. This is the first time I have heard about the matter in nine years. The fine is for more than $1400 and I am loathe to pay this again.

The SDRO are stating the I have only two options; Pay the fine or Prove payment.

Obviously, I have not kept a receipt from 10 years ago. And my bank can't provide me any records older than seven years (their legal requirement).

It looks like I will have to see a magistrate and take them to court in a civil respect to have the outstanding amount overturned.

So, does any one know of any options, legal definitions or advice that I may be able to use in court against the SDRO to invalidate a 10 year old fine?

No 1 statute of limitations says that the only matter that can be brought before a court after 7 years is a capital punishment case, I.E . murder.

No2 under the tax and income laws no person(individual) or persons representing an entity (I.E. company or corporation)

is oblidged to keep financial records past a period of seven years.

this includes purchases and payments to government departments.

that is why your bank has no record older than seven years.

i think once you get a lawyer on to it they will back off for the simple reason the expect the person (you) to be dumb and stupid and pay it anyway because the fat broad minded female behind the desk at the SDRO cant be f**ked putting down her doughnuts to go press the search functions on there records computer.

oh and challenge them to produce the original fine. bet you they cant because they would have disposed of seven years after it was issued too. just like ya bank disposes of your records after seven years.

[R33GTRKid]

why do you not arrange for a historical print out of your license to be provided.

Demerit points do not register on your license until AFTER you pay the infringement or plead guilty or are found guilty.

In this instance, if your driving history reveals that shortly after the date of the infringement you accrued the applicable number of demerit points, it clearly indicates that you paid the fine?

Also the statute of limitations argument mentioned above is a bona fide one and entirely correct. You would need to lodge an application with the Administrative Appeals Tribunal in your state.

[~Hypnotik~]

Thanks for your input peeps.

That cetainly is an option. But the SDRO can enforce my license be cancelled, goods be recovered to repay the debt or as you suggest imprison me to pay the fine. I'm not sure I want the sore arse though they may come with the two weeks of bend over service. Or the three inch scar in my abnomen from the shanking. Or more importantly, the record on my file that says I served time in prison. Not so good for overseas travel.

I spoke with the SDRO further on Friday and it seems they rejected my Annulment order on the grounds that it does not comply with their guidelines. They haven't declined it, they have rejected it; they are even refunding my Annulment Application fee of $50. However, I have read the appropriate sections of the Fines Act 1996 No 99 (Part 3, Division 5, Section 49, 2c) and they should not have rejected my annulment.

It states:

"

The State Debt Recovery Office, when dealing with an application for annulment, must grant the application and annul the penalty notice enforcement order if satisfied that:

having regard to the circumstances of the case, there is other just cause why the application should be granted.

"

So I'll be resubmitting my Annulment application and see how that goes. Certainly the fact that the SDRO keeps giving me wrong advice or making mistakes with regards to their guidelines should weigh in my favour in court.

I totally understand you saying you don't want imprisonment on your record as it will/may affect you later in life, but the stuff you mentioned about the "bend over service" is total rubbish which is near non existent in Australian jails and getting "shanked" (shived is the Australian word) never happens without a reason and seeing as you would most likely serve your time in a minimum security prison farm it has pretty much zero chance of happening.

[bombtrack]

No 1 statute of limitations says that the only matter that can be brought before a court after 7 years is a capital punishment case, I.E . murder.

No2 under the tax and income laws no person(individual) or persons representing an entity (I.E. company or corporation)

is oblidged to keep financial records past a period of seven years.

This ^^ is my understanding as well. I thought a competent lawyer would have laughed at this. I certainly did.

Do they need to take you to court to remove your ability to get/keep your license? I think they do. They don't need to go to court to financially blacklist you. These are the things I would imagine could happen, but prison or paying the fine again? Legally, I don't think they can do it.

If this even made it to court let alone resulted in a finding against you it would be a sad day for the Australian legal system.

Write your letters and get as much professional advice as possible. It'll work out. Good luck.

[Iron Chef]

1) Find the name of a GOOD lawyer (I mean, QC-type lawyer)

2) Send letters to the relevant politicians - even make a time to meet your local State MP if possible. Letters to govt departments usually end up going nowhere, but if you get a pollie on your side, things will move pretty quickly. I know police officers, for one, can't STAND political involvement.

3) When you write your letters, go back to the name of your good lawyer, and CC his/her name, QC and business name at the top of the letter. Doesn't cost a thing, and is enough to make people think twice before taking you on

[thedriver]

A printout of my license history will not show any demerit points as the SDRO claim they have not received the funds, therefore they wouldn't have processed the payment, therefore the wouldn't have processed the points.

But having said that I have spoken to RTA and Roads ACT to try and get some history on this. However it seems that Roads ACT can't see them anyway because the demerit points attributed to a license expire after three years.

I totally understand you saying you don't want imprisonment...

That was very tongue in cheek and I realise prisons these days are much safer than they once were. But truth be told I have had access to remand centres here in the ACT and actually had to be inside them for my job and they're not pretty. And some of the people in them are VERY scary. I wouldn't want to spend two weeks let alone two days in any one of them.

1) Find the name of a GOOD lawyer (I mean, QC-type lawyer)

$$$. I don't believe I'll be entitled to recoup any of my costs. If I wasn't so morally against it I would be better off to pay the enforcement order again and save myself all this time.

I've spoken to a Barrister that specialises in traffic infrigments and he cost around $1000 just for a day in court. That's not counting his other time. And he's not even a QC.

I have written to Mr John Turner, Member for Myall Lakes.

He had a lot to say about the SDRO in NSW Parliament in 2001 - http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARL...y/LA20010308030.

I'll see which other politicians I can find to side with me.

[Shell]

wow... almost makes me happy to be a hoarder... I have all my bank statements from when I first opened the account a billion years ago lol... dunno why, i just put them in an expandable filing thingy and forget about them

[Iron Chef]

I said "find the name of one", not "hire the services of one"

[thedriver]

I said "find the name of one", not "hire the services of one"

Oh, I see what you mean now. But how do I do that on a written letter? I'm writting and posting letters.

I'm assuming you are suggesting this by email. Unfortunately, email still isn't as 'official' as a written letter.

Although maybe I do both.

[W0rp3D]

$$$. I don't believe I'll be entitled to recoup any of my costs. If I wasn't so morally against it I would be better off to pay the enforcement order again and save myself all this time.

I've spoken to a Barrister that specialises in traffic infrigments and he cost around $1000 just for a day in court. That's not counting his other time. And he's not even a QC.

If the laws people have quoted are correct then i doubt you will need to go to court, get the solicitor to send a letter quoting all these laws and statutes and i think you will get the matter sorted pretty quickly, as someone stated earlier they are couting on you to be dum enough to just pay it, once they see letters from a solicitor they will know you are serious about not paying it.

Edited January 13, 2009 by W0rp3D

[GTR R35]

I got a call from the SDRO about a parking fine that was 8 years old that I had to pay $36 for the fine and $50 for the SDRO fee.

They were very demanding and told me I would get a bad mark on my CRA and also have my license/rego cancelled.

I asked them how they are so incompetent that they cannot tell me for 8 years that I owe this money and that I have always had a drivers license and registered car with correct details.

I sent them an extreamly abusive letter telling them what a bunch of monkeys they were and signed the cheque GET FU.KED.

Somehow they managed to bank the cheque, but like you I had no way to prove if I had ever paid the fine.

Reading your story just makes me angry that a pack of parasitic buerocrats can treat people like this.

I would write a few letters and hopefully get some justice. They have to provide you with due course, do not let them bully you, I would take it infront of a magistrate and make them look like fools.

Forget a lawyer and defend yourself, or ask someone who is a good talker to help you out

Also demand costs for your time and expenses. Good luck.

[thedriver]

No 1 statute of limitations says that the only matter that can be brought before a court after 7 years is a capital punishment case, I.E . murder.

Hey Nizmount, Are you able to tell me where in the Act I should be looking? Which section, point etc?

[bombtrack]

Check this out, bottom of page 21 and 22:

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/Loo...n_guideline.pdf

They talk of statute barred debts. It also suggests that if the debt is statute-barred, i.e. the statute legally prevents collection, and they advise you that it is payable, then they are breaking the law.

The following is a less reputable source however the time they quote for statute of limitations is correct at 6 years:

http://www.consumerbadcreditguide.com/stat...saustralia.html

Please be aware that I am not a lawyer and any advice above should be double checked with a professional.

I hope that is helpful. Cheers!

[Zoggy]

i say call "A Current Affair"

[LBR33]

Take'm to the cleaners this is just wrong.

[ossie_21]

The replies in this thread say to me that the SDRO stand little chance, but it's still just a f**k around for you. Good luck with it mate & keep us all updated