Got Over 400kw Atw?

[GTR_JOEY]

if you are going to run 98, then an intank nismo will do 400kw fine.

mine only did 375 , stupid pump

depends on who tunes it and what dyno

[Marko R1]

Twin Nismo's intank!!!

I too prefer in tank setups...I've had an external setup with 3x044's and its just sooo much neater when u can't see it, besides that, u can tell the police the car is stock with just an exhaust

Btw Dean, I watched your footage in your sig and it is a very nice gtr. The white wheels set it off!!! Is this Matt's old nusmo gtr? Looks very familiar.

[R32 TT]

This is what I am going to use.

An 'intank' pump of sorts but in a surge tank. Single pump only, (so hopefully reducing the possibility of one pump failure causing the other to run out of legs and lean the engine)

Being submerged, I hope this will be a better environment for the pump, neater solution. (less connectors / lines etc) Includes the pre-filter.

Additionally I'll run a speed controller for it, so at idle it will only tick over. Then run mid duty up until boost comes on at which point I'll run it flat chat.

Hopefully this keeps the noise down, the heat down and extends the pump life.

[Marko R1]

^ I had plenty of noise with my old setup and was also surprised how warm the fuel got as well...definitely overworking the fuel, complete overkill

[R31Nismoid]

Ya realz

As long as you are only going to highway race. Any limiter launches or hard cornering may cause it to suck air and blow your engine

Hasn't been a problem for my Nismo in tank...

Even on the bank of the Thunderdome at full noise (25 degree angle), was fine.

[R32 TT]

Hasn't been a problem for my Nismo in tank...

Even on the bank of the Thunderdome at full noise (25 degree angle), was fine.

haha! errr yeah... well when its 'banked' that much your fuel is kinda kept at the bottom of the tank isn't it? Perhaps not the best example..

[R31Nismoid]

Fill a bottle 1/4, tip a bottle 25 degree's and then spin in a wide circular fashion - Not a perfect showing, but the water doesn't exactly sit on the bottom. Then add 200km/h and a bumpy surface for shits & giggles...

I've also done what... Maybe 100-150 limiter launches?

Then there are the cars with 380-400rwkw that run around Philip Island, on semi comps, with in-tank's and no failures.

Properly mounted that aren't a problem that anyone down here has been on the bad end of.

[T04GTR]

turbine pumps are the go, but they are designed to be always submerged, ive been on the dyno alot latley and the roller cell pumps, mainly 044 seem to have a really bad tolerance to the temp of the fuel, ie tuned all good then as soon as the fuel is hot they drop pressue, and you have a 350kw engine running 13:1 afr's....

[R32 TT]

Fill a bottle 1/4, tip a bottle 25 degree's and then spin in a wide circular fashion - Not a perfect showing, but the water doesn't exactly sit on the bottom. Then add 200km/h and a bumpy surface for shits & giggles...

I've also done what... Maybe 100-150 limiter launches?

Then there are the cars with 380-400rwkw that run around Philip Island, on semi comps, with in-tank's and no failures.

Properly mounted that aren't a problem that anyone down here has been on the bad end of.

Whoa ease up there partner.. Not saying the nismo won't do the numbers, just pointing out your example of a 25 degree bank doesn't make your point very well as it reduces the problem, doesnt make it worse now does it.

Actually. Fill your bottle 1/4 full and swing it in a wide arc ( at the right speed) and it will sit on the bottom.

Taking corners at Philip Island is a much better example.

You er, drinking anything tonight Ash?

[R32 TT]

turbine pumps are the go, but they are designed to be always submerged, ive been on the dyno alot latley and the roller cell pumps, mainly 044 seem to have a really bad tolerance to the temp of the fuel, ie tuned all good then as soon as the fuel is hot they drop pressue, and you have a 350kw engine running 13:1 afr's....

I went googling to find out more about this and came across this pump which I haven't seen before.. apologies if this is old news, but has anyone used/seen one of these?

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/en-US/literature/en-US/B261205366-01_DataSheet_enUS_T7398978443.pdf

[R31Nismoid]

Whoa ease up there partner.. Not saying the nismo won't do the numbers, just pointing out your example of a 25 degree bank doesn't make your point very well as it reduces the problem, doesnt make it worse now does it.

Actually. Fill your bottle 1/4 full and swing it in a wide arc ( at the right speed) and it will sit on the bottom.

Taking corners at Philip Island is a much better example.

You er, drinking anything tonight Ash?

Huh? Was just providing information/examples...

I really cannot see how it's going to sit perfectly on the bottom with g forces you can feel heavily and 25 degree angles and the fuel is being pushed to the side, not bottom, in such a situation.

[R32 TT]

I really cannot see how it's going to sit perfectly on the bottom with g forces you can feel heavily and 25 degree angles and the fuel is being pushed to the side, not bottom, in such a situation.

Just so we're on the same page..

Lets say the corner we are talking about is a left hander. So you, the driver, are sitting on the high side of this bank, doing circa 200km/hr. Which way side of the tank is it that you think the fuel is being pushed to?

Gravity is trying to pull the fuel down to the left side of the tank. That's where it would be sitting if your car were parked still on that slope facing the direction of the corner.

When you are turning hard left on the FLAT bit of road, the fuel makes its way to the right side of the tank.. agreed?

On the bank, while turning left at 200-250km/hr, the fuel will 'climb' back up to be approximately flat on the bottom of the tank - negating the force of gravity pulling it down. Yes, of course it won't be 'perfectly flat', but its not perfectly flat doing 200km/hr on the flat straight bit of road either. (but I didn't say 'perfectly' to begin with) Also it will vary depending on whether you are doing 180km/hr or 220km/hr, so lets not split hairs. If 200 happens to be the sweet spot, then the differences will only be like taking that corner at 20-40km/hr.. ie, not nearly as much fuel movement as you think. Hence just not a good example for what you were trying to say. That is all.

Grab that bucket from the laundry, put 3 inches of water in it. Go outside (that's an important step), hold the bucket out at an angle and start to rotate - watch what happens and get back to us.

also! Make sure you get someone to take video - not for any scientific value - I just think it will be amusing when you stop.

Remember this is why the corner is banked the first place, to negate the lateral G forces - on the tyres mostly - but same result for the fuel.

[rob82]

turbine pumps are the go, but they are designed to be always submerged, ive been on the dyno alot latley and the roller cell pumps, mainly 044 seem to have a really bad tolerance to the temp of the fuel, ie tuned all good then as soon as the fuel is hot they drop pressue, and you have a 350kw engine running 13:1 afr's....

Seen the exact same issue with aeromotive pumps when they heat up too.

[Marko R1]

Seen the exact same issue with aeromotive pumps when they heat up too.

Come to think of it, I had the same problem when I took my car for a 3 hour drive and the exhaust light flashed on my dash at the time. It was leaning out and must have been due to the warm fuel and bad tolerance 044's.

Does anyone have a cross section image or detail of the gtr tank as I've been informed that the r32 tank is well baffled. I've always wanted to what it looks like inside...

[Piggaz]

Come to think of it, I had the same problem when I took my car for a 3 hour drive and the exhaust light flashed on my dash at the time. It was leaning out and must have been due to the warm fuel and bad tolerance 044's.

Does anyone have a cross section image or detail of the gtr tank as I've been informed that the r32 tank is well baffled. I've always wanted to what it looks like inside...

Interesting.

I've driven my car from Sydney to Shepparton with the 2 044's going flat out the whole time and no issues. I have a Fuel pressure gauge on my steering column and that was solid as a rock.

[zebra]

$100 fuel cooler will help that

go on stick another cooler in the front of a GTR...for teh wimmens

[GTRNUR]

Interesting.

I've driven my car from Sydney to Shepparton with the 2 044's going flat out the whole time and no issues. I have a Fuel pressure gauge on my steering column and that was solid as a rock.

Cruise speeds mean lighter loads and less fuel pressure. Less load on the pumps, allowing them to operate without generating as much heat.

All your extra plumbing and surge tank will help eliminate heat from the fuel system as well to a degree, but ideally you would have a cooler on the return line. It would be interesting to see what your fuel temps are after sustained operation at high loads when the pumps are really working.

The big bosch pumps get noisier when they start to cavitate as they boil the fuel. You won't notice this as much with two pumps as its partner makes up the shortfall in flow when this starts to happen.

[Marko R1]

Interesting.

I've driven my car from Sydney to Shepparton with the 2 044's going flat out the whole time and no issues. I have a Fuel pressure gauge on my steering column and that was solid as a rock.

i wonder if my rubber return line had anything to do with this which ran from the engine to the boot, as rubber would be a better heater insulator than a steel hose line?

Cruise speeds mean lighter loads and less fuel pressure. Less load on the pumps, allowing them to operate without generating as much heat.

All your extra plumbing and surge tank will help eliminate heat from the fuel system as well to a degree, but ideally you would have a cooler on the return line. It would be interesting to see what your fuel temps are after sustained operation at high loads when the pumps are really working.

The big bosch pumps get noisier when they start to cavitate as they boil the fuel. You won't notice this as much with two pumps as its partner makes up the shortfall in flow when this starts to happen.

i agree that extra lines would provide cooling properties to a small degree, although, my surge tank was mounted in the boot (very little ventilation) & i was very surprised with how warm the surge tank would become after a decent run. i no longer have that car so its no longer my problem (the surge tank ended up in a 900hp supercharged 67 mustang)

[Piggaz]

Ian, you bring up a good point there. My surge tank is underneath the car so maybe that airflow over the whole setup brings the temps down enough? I should measure the temp of the fuel after a session at a trackday. Dont forget at idle speeds (and light loads) with the pumps not being switched they would be moving alot of fuel in and out of the engine bay, heating up a little every 'round trip'.

[zebra]

you ran a rubber line all the way under the car?!?!?!