Got Over 400kw Atw?

[The Dan]

My power, temps are no different with a GReddy core (that I didn't know I had). Guess you missed that post.

But spend big if you want on the 'big mark up' Jap items that are coming outta China at the end of the day anyway. Look forward to reading your testing and if you see any temp differences at the circuit, i didn't.

I mean I know for a fact a few local Aus 'brands' have been ex-China for over 4 years. That's another argument entirely however

I am definitely not saying you are wrong but I just cannot see it happening on a standard intercooler.

Every second day we see cars run out of flow on the dyno because of the intercooler. Even larger cores etc when you get up over the 500hp mark. We rarely see factory GTR coolers get over 400hp at the wheels. That's not to say it cannot happen and I'm certainly not saying that, but when you have 5 guys who apparently make 350-400rwkw on stock coolers but I can think of at least 4 times that many that failed to make much over 300rwkw, is it fair to say it's not a good idea to expect it to work because 5 people have done so?

I don't think 350rwkw is too much to ask but 400rwkw+ is a bit of a stretch IMO. Unless running alcohol, 100mm core is required for enough flow to see 400rwkw efficiently.

Obviously it comes down to heat and density as well so a GT60 is going to do better than a GT35R at pushing the air through because the air 'should' be cooler on the bigger turbo that flows more. Twins will also have that effect but not to the extent you are suggesting.

[The Dan]

We've also got Power Spirit (china) 100mm intercoolers on about 6 or 7 cars making 550-600rwhp and on 2 cars making over 800hp at the wheels

They aren't that bad

[wolverine]

People are forgetting that coolers are basically a heat sink

Not quite true they are more than just heat sinks.

[nomnomv8]

^^ Elite Racing

And this is what I'm talking about. "E-Mechanics" trying to prove a point against people like yourself who have been doing it in and out and have seen the outcomes first hand multiple times.

Seeing as the 400kw has been debunked into a intercooler debate lol (dont you love it when this happens) if anyone wants to buy a standard R34 GTR cooler in perfect condition which comes with Nismoids 400kw shoot me a PM

[Marko R1]

^ lol - i agree in that a tuner who HAS experience with tuning such as Daniel (or others that i deal with which have a global presence) carry much more weight than mere opinions of others

the debate has started haha

[The Dan]

Nismoid knows what he's talking about. There is no denying that.

As for offtopic, I don't see this type of discussion as heated debate or offtopic for this type of thread. People who want to make 400rwkw need to know this type of thing to be able to make their own decisions. At the end of the day, it's the customer's car or the owner of the vehicle that decides what they want. If you can make the power you want without changing the standard intercooler than I will be the first person to recommend keeping it, all my customers will agree with me there. I definitely don't recommend changing things that are not needed.

If you don't make the power then change it. But be prepared for it at least. It makes the tuners job so hard trying to explain why your car doesn't make power when they swear black and blue the internet told them it would

[Ryan1200]

My power, temps are no different with a GReddy core (that I didn't know I had). Guess you missed that post.

But spend big if you want on the 'big mark up' Jap items that are coming outta China at the end of the day anyway. Look forward to reading your testing and if you see any temp differences at the circuit, i didn't.

I mean I know for a fact a few local Aus 'brands' have been ex-China for over 4 years. That's another argument entirely however

Log any temps after laps around a track though? One dyno pull is a bit different to proper hard use

[R31Nismoid]

Read the post you quoted

And this is what I'm talking about. "E-Mechanics" trying to prove a point against people like yourself who have been doing it in and out and have seen the outcomes first hand multiple times.

Well I'm not trying to prove any point. I'm simply saying there is no need to change.

If you don't believe that, then that is totally fine with me. I see all a lot of circuit cars down here using stock GTR cores - their lap times well and truly back up the power they are making, and the fact they can stay out there for laps until the oil or brakes cry enough is interesting.

If it's not enough proof for you, then so be it. Go spend $1500 on a Jap cooler kit that actually costs $400, it's certainly no skin off my nose.

And FYI - I'm no "e-mechanic". I've pulled/swapped my own motors/boxes, suspension, brakes - many times over.

I guess at the end of the day it's a real pity you have backed down on your words:

Going to try the stock cooler and piping soon with a pair of 2530's pushing hopefully 380awkw and let you know how it goes

Would've been interesting to see you make (or not) the numbers

Nismoid knows what he's talking about. There is no denying that.

As for offtopic, I don't see this type of discussion as heated debate or offtopic for this type of thread. People who want to make 400rwkw need to know this type of thing to be able to make their own decisions. At the end of the day, it's the customer's car or the owner of the vehicle that decides what they want. If you can make the power you want without changing the standard intercooler than I will be the first person to recommend keeping it, all my customers will agree with me there. I definitely don't recommend changing things that are not needed.

If you don't make the power then change it. But be prepared for it at least.

Agreed as usual

[NYTSKY]

My 100mm PowerSpirit cooler is supporting 800hp too

[nomnomv8]

Nismoid, I wasnt implying you in particular just the general consensus on these boards of alot of members who read something from a complete stranger and take it as the gospel and then recirculate the information as if though they are the all mighty and knowing. The same person who the next week makes a thread on which workshop is best to put on a "cat-back" exhaust for him..

If you look at alot of the guys on here running cheaper coolers handling the bigger amount of power it all comes to one thing that i was talking about earlier - volume. Its just simple physics really, a 100mm thick cooler at power levels north of the 300kw mark and 400kw mark is going to do a better job than a 60 or 70mm one granted they are of the same composition.

If you look at my entire angle to this in the first place I never once stated that it wasnt impossible, simply inefficient. Last bit of my build that im waiting on now is my turbos. Once thats in I will do a run with both stock cooler (from a 34 which is supposedly the best in the series) vs a 100mm aftermarket one and we can put numbers and graphs together instead of words

[R31Nismoid]

Those people exist and have 400rwkw cars as well don't forget, just go with whatever they are served up

Also interestingly (this is always an interesting topic) - Nizpro only use 63mm on their 400rwkw+ XR6 setups. They are taller than a GTR item, but not as wide (they are bolt in replacement).

Now those cars have the MPH to back their power levels (130mph+ in a FG FPV), so they certainly aren't being restricted by any means of the word

[Roy]

So it's proven that a standard cooler can support big power, but would a big dollar brand name one be more efficient and help to make more/earlier power?

Call me stupid but I went from this...

to a std R34 cooler. I don't run my data logger these days so I cant compare the difference in inlet temps when running 20psi through the car. But Nick now runs my old ARC cooler and his car would be close to 360-380rwkws car so would be interesting to see how his temps and power differ from other Racepace cars that run std coolers.

I know for my puny 260-275odd rwkws the std R34 cooler suits my application better. So the std GTR cooler is better then the ARC cooler in 400-450hp applications

...We rarely see factory GTR coolers get over 400hp at the wheels. That's not to say it cannot happen and I'm certainly not saying that, but when you have 5 guys who apparently make 350-400rwkw on stock coolers but I can think of at least 4 times that many that failed to make much over 300rwkw, is it fair to say it's not a good idea to expect it to work because 5 people have done so?

So whilst I am currently 25rwkws off 400hp at the wheels, I am close enough to the figure you mention that if the std R34 GTR cooler was indeed inferior to what many claim to be the best coolers on the market then you would have expected them to be about the same, or even the ARC to result in better power. The tube design is meant to flow better and offer less pressure drop, but again, with the std R34 cooler there was no difference in power and the response was better with the R34 cooler. Will have to see how it goes with the 73HTA being tuned on Thursday so should be making a tad over 400hp at the wheels and will tell you the inlet temps I see with it

[scotty nm35]

If you look at my entire angle to this in the first place I never once stated that it wasnt impossible, simply inefficient. Last bit of my build that im waiting on now is my turbos. Once thats in I will do a run with both stock cooler (from a 34 which is supposedly the best in the series) vs a 100mm aftermarket one and we can put numbers and graphs together instead of words

That angle is fine, but take it further. You wouldn't run 5 inch cooler piping as it would take half an hour to charge it. You only run what you need to for the flow you require.

[Roy]

If you look at my entire angle to this in the first place I never once stated that it wasnt impossible, simply inefficient. Last bit of my build that im waiting on now is my turbos. Once thats in I will do a run with both stock cooler (from a 34 which is supposedly the best in the series) vs a 100mm aftermarket one and we can put numbers and graphs together instead of words

If you are talking efficiency you really need to measure the temps in and out of the coolers, a bung either side to measure pressure drop would be handy as well.

[N1GTR]

I tried to hold my tongue, I really did. It's almost comical hearing what people think will get them past the 400 mark from people that have never done it before. It is NOT as simple as bolting 2530's on (as an example as they're spoken about recently). If it was, everyone would've done it. Look at how many people get -5's with 24psi and get results around the 330-350 mark as another example.

Choosing parts for your car is not a matter of picking the shiniest parts from the biggest and most well known shops, it's about choosing the parts for their own individual merits. Example; There's one bloke going around with a built engine in his GTR who keeps on saying it makes heaps of HP and would be uncatchable but then you overlay the curves and it's as if he is using an RB20 ffs and the comparison curve is a bent 8. He has all these fancy brand name parts with a "bigger is better" attitude, and most of them are junk like split dump pipes, massive duration cams (because the idle sounds fully hectik bro and pullz da bitchez), drag size intercooler and the car has never been to any kind of track.

It's similar to the HKS GT-RS lover crowd who were arguing in some other thread recently (may have even been this one).......newsflash for you...............those turbos SUCK!!! Im able to say that because I've had them and while the curve was acceptable with my cams and engine the choofing and throttle response was certainly NOT acceptable, there is better out there! Open your damn eyes! My setup now MURDERS the GT-RS setup, I haven't found a GT-RS curve that's close to it eventhough the HKS GT-RS's are the best turbos known to man according to some, and even one of the most well known motors from Victoria's curve is behind the current setup on mine even with his variable cam as an advantage. But does that mean it's a good setup - in my eyes yes, but in other peoples eyes no because it doesnt have a huge aftermarket parts list.

Ash, Scott and Dan make very valid points about using the stock hardware gets good results and with a few parts added here and there you can have a total weapon. One of the seemingly most overlooked parts is intercooler piping. So often at meets/trackdays/workshops you see a car where the piping looks like it's been done by a 5 year old trying to put lego together, mismatched sizing included. That sort of thing makes a HUGE difference to how the car drives but for most it's a close enough is good enough situation.

Maybe I've lost my mind and care too much about the "small details" as designated by others, and that's probably the case! But IMO the small details are what separate it from the rest of the cars out there with big numbers (dyno queens) and the actually big hp AND fast cars (point to point). Anyone who's been in it or seen the graph will already know this.

Here ends my rant.

[Adz2332]

Glad i asked the question

emailed the tuner i use to see what they would prefer as they will be doing a full tune on it....

See what they come back with

[Marko R1]

fire up!

[elrodeo666]

I tried to hold my tongue, I really did. It's almost comical hearing what people think will get them past the 400 mark from people that have never done it before. It is NOT as simple as bolting 2530's on (as an example as they're spoken about recently). If it was, everyone would've done it. Look at how many people get -5's with 24psi and get results around the 330-350 mark as another example.

Choosing parts for your car is not a matter of picking the shiniest parts from the biggest and most well known shops, it's about choosing the parts for their own individual merits. Example; There's one bloke going around with a built engine in his GTR who keeps on saying it makes heaps of HP and would be uncatchable but then you overlay the curves and it's as if he is using an RB20 ffs and the comparison curve is a bent 8. He has all these fancy brand name parts with a "bigger is better" attitude, and most of them are junk like split dump pipes, massive duration cams (because the idle sounds fully hectik bro and gets the bitches), drag size intercooler and the car has never been to any kind of track.

It's similar to the HKS GT-RS lover crowd who were arguing in some other thread recently (may have even been this one).......newsflash for you...............those turbos SUCK!!! Im able to say that because I've had them and while the curve was acceptable with my cams and engine the choofing and throttle response was certainly NOT acceptable, there is better out there! Open your damn eyes! My setup now MURDERS the GT-RS setup, I haven't found a GT-RS curve that's close to it eventhough the HKS GT-RS's are the best turbos known to man according to some, and even one of the most well known motors from Victoria's curve is behind the current setup on mine. But does that mean it's a good setup - in my eyes yes, but in other peoples eyes no because it doesnt have a huge aftermarket parts list.

Ash, Scott and Dan make very valid points about using the stock hardware gets good results and with a few parts added here and there you can have a total weapon. One of the seemingly most overlooked parts is intercooler piping. So often at meets/trackdays/workshops you see a car where the piping looks like it's been done by a 5 year old trying to put lego together, mismatched sizing included. That sort of thing makes a HUGE difference to how the car drives but for most it's a close enough is good enough situation.

Maybe I've lost my mind and care too much about the "small details" as designated by others, and that's probably the case! But IMO the small details are what separate it from the rest of the cars out there with big numbers (dyno queens) and the actually big hp AND fast cars (point to point). Anyone who's been in it or seen the graph will already know this.

Here ends my rant.

Aaa but what a good rant it is Steve.

[WHITER33GTS-T]

My less than $200 ebay special 600x300x100 is good for 475rwkw thru an auto....

[Adz2332]

Wow didn't mean to start a huge thing but how about inter cooler piping? Worth an upgrade?

What decent options are there?