Stagea Awd Or 4wd

[Moff]

This might end up being a long thread, but also very infomative..

What is the 'Synchroniser' Switch ? Do you mean the Power, Economy and Snow botton by the gear stick ?

If the diff lock locks power 50/50 to the wheels, could it be used on the track for some drifting, or drag racing ?

Moff

[GoldZilla]

What is the 'Synchroniser' Switch ? Do you mean the Power, Economy and Snow botton by the gear stick ?

If the diff lock locks power 50/50 to the wheels, could it be used on the track for some drifting, or drag racing ?

Moff

The "Synchroniser" switch is the same as the Snow switch, and is what puts your car in 50/50 split.

You'd only use it on track or drags if you wanted to blow up your transfer case, which would prove to be an expensive fix. Don't do it!!!

[Moff]

Sounds like I need to be explained what more stuff does

Diff Lock - Puts car in 50/50 4WD split, normally driving mode ???

Power Mode - ????

Snow - Puts car in 50/50 4WD split pulls away in higher gears, ideal for er... snow

Economy - Normal Day to Day driving, ATTESSA ETS working normally, RWD unless ATTESSA ETS detects traction loss ?

[mitchy_]

All-wheel drive is similar to full-time 4WD in that the system is always sending power to the wheels with the most traction, but AWD has no 2WD switch. It is always operating in 4WD mode.

therefore awd = 4wd.

[GoldZilla]

Sounds like I need to be explained what more stuff does

Diff Lock - Puts car in 50/50 4WD split, normally driving mode ???

Power Mode - ????

Snow - Puts car in 50/50 4WD split pulls away in higher gears, ideal for er... snow

Economy - Normal Day to Day driving, ATTESSA ETS working normally, RWD unless ATTESSA ETS detects traction loss ?

Hmmm, seeing as your ORIGINAL QUESTION referred to the RS-Four Stagea, then:

Diff Lock - there is none on a Stagea...

Power Mode or Economy Mode work the same in regards to how the ATTESA-ETS system works on a Stagea, the difference is in how the gearbox is programmed to change gears. In Power mode it holds onto gears longer, changes up later in the rev range, and changes down earlier. In Economy, it's the opposite (changes up earlier at lower revs, changes down later), with the obvious intention of reducing engine and driveline "stress" and therefore reducing the amount of fuel the car uses.

Snow - yes, it starts the car off in 2nd gear and distributes torque 50/50 to reduce the chance of wheelspin.

[Duncan]

You know, I typed a long post about this yesterday, and since its not in this thread I wonder where I put it rofl.

I've got no idea about this awd/4wd question but I can confirm the following:

R32 GTR and GTS-4 run the same attessa system. It runs 0% fwd normally and feeds power forward based on g-sensor inputs and throttle position, all controlled by computer. It is old and slow to react. You can safely run the car in rwd by pulling the fuse for the attessa computer (or turning the car on and off while it is moving)

R33/34 GTR/GTS-4/Stagea run the later attessa system. It is mechanically very similar but always runs a small amount of FWD, and it responds more quickly. It is much more front biased that the earlier models and is a big improvement on road or track. You cannot safely run the car in RWD only without removing the front driveshaft as there is always at least some power going to the front wheels.

In the stagea there is a "diff lock" function - it can't really lock the "centre diff" because there isn't one. What it does is pull maximum available front torque by putting full pressure onto the transfer case. In turn the transfer case is hyraulically operated from that pump, and is similar to an auto transmission in that it has wet plates that slip to some extent under all circumstances.

[KiwiRS4T]

You know, I typed a long post about this yesterday, and since its not in this thread I wonder where I put it rofl.

I've got no idea about this awd/4wd question but I can confirm the following:

R32 GTR and GTS-4 run the same attessa system. It runs 0% fwd normally and feeds power forward based on g-sensor inputs and throttle position, all controlled by computer. It is old and slow to react. You can safely run the car in 4wd by pulling the fuse for the attessa computer (or turning the car on and off while it is moving)

R33/34 GTR/GTS-4/Stagea run the later attessa system. It is mechanically very similar but always runs a small amount of FWD, and it responds more quickly. It is much more front biased that the earlier models and is a big improvement on road or track. You cannot safely run the car in RWD only without removing the front driveshaft as there is always at least some power going to the front wheels.

In the stagea there is a "diff lock" function - it can't really lock the "centre diff" because there isn't one. What it does is pull maximum available front torque by putting full pressure onto the transfer case. In turn the transfer case is hyraulically operated from that pump, and is similar to an auto transmission in that it has wet plates that slip to some extent under all circumstances.

DUNCAN There are strange forces at work here. I distinctly remember reading your long post and it isn't here now. Maybe it is under another thread??!!

MOFF - there may be differences among the models but in my Stagea RS 4 T there is a button beside the gear lever (auto) which has a normal position and goes back to "snow", which simply locks out 1st gear, and forward for power which makes the gearbox hang on longer in each gear on a normal throttle. On a wide open throttle this is superfluous because the kickdown ensures that you go to the limit in each gear .

On the dash there are two buttons next to each other. One is the rear heated screen. The other is the "synchro" button which means that you take off with a 50/50 power split, usefull for pulling a boat out of water or a horse float out of a paddock (no I have neither) but once the speed gets up (I am not sure of the figure but it is quite low) the computer takes over the normal function and distributes f/r drive according to need.

Effectively the Stagea cannot be used on the road or track without the Attesa system (where fitted). Duncan has outlined a way to disable the front drive (pull fuse AND REMOVE FRONT DRIVE SHAFT) but this has limited value. Also there is a lot of work to removing all of the four wheel drive components so if you want to light up the rear wheels on their own get a 2 wheel drive car.

(The AWD v 4WD distinction is a total diversion - these terms mean whatever the marketing department of the various manufacturers want them to mean)

[_Ryan_]

Duncan you may want to correct your post to say that an R32 goes too RWD When the fuse is pulled not AWD

[BensDR30]

I'm now a bit curious about the 'snow' mode in regards to torque-split....

Now, if the 'Synchroniser' switch is on, you will get chattering of the drivetrain at high steering angles & low speed (this is normal). But, I have never experienced this when the car has been in 'Snow' mode (which is usually via the dog walking on the console switch - why does it never toggle to power?? ).

I think that it would be more likely that in 'Snow' mode, it may run a higher front split, but it's not the same as using the 'Synchroniser'

(Snow mode also starts in 2nd, and doesn't switch to high boost)

Has anyone had a fiddle with these switches when on a dyno?

[Moff]

Seems us Pommes don't have a great deal of knowledge on this subject, so your input is most appreciated

How do you guys know all this ?

[Duncan]

haha thanks ryan, fixed. too many wds in that post.

Moff - I'm no mechanic (seriously lol) but I have run a 32 gtr race car for 5 years, am building a custom wired sports sedan 32 gtr, got a manual converted stagea and organised a group buy for attessa controllers for a number of years which included sorting out issues in the system for a lot of people. Also there is an english workshop manual for the 32 gtr that explains a lot

[BensDR30]

I'm surprised that you haven't found decent info in UK - you got the 32, 33 & 34 GT-R's, and the RNN14 GTiR delivered domestically. We were stuck with 'only' the 32. Although, I guess that in the last 10 years a heck of a lot of performance cars have been brought over to Australia as grey imports...

[Moff]

I'm surprised that you haven't found decent info in UK - you got the 32, 33 & 34 GT-R's, and the RNN14 GTiR delivered domestically. We were stuck with 'only' the 32. Although, I guess that in the last 10 years a heck of a lot of performance cars have been brought over to Australia as grey imports...

All Grey imports. Officially, we only got 98 x 34 GTR's and 98 x 33 GTR's through Middlehurst Nissan.

We have had to import all of the others..

[KiwiRS4T]

I'm now a bit curious about the 'snow' mode in regards to torque-split....

Now, if the 'Synchroniser' switch is on, you will get chattering of the drivetrain at high steering angles & low speed (this is normal). But, I have never experienced this when the car has been in 'Snow' mode (which is usually via the dog walking on the console switch - why does it never toggle to power?? ).

I think that it would be more likely that in 'Snow' mode, it may run a higher front split, but it's not the same as using the 'Synchroniser'

(Snow mode also starts in 2nd, and doesn't switch to high boost)

Has anyone had a fiddle with these switches when on a dyno?

I have seen no evidence that the snow button does anything other than lock out first. The recommended setting for the (4 wheel) dyno (that I use) is to put on the snow button and select 2nd gear. That way there is no kick down. As you have noted yourself there is no effect on the Atessa. Why do you say "" why does it never toggle to power?" - do you have a faulty switch or are you saying why does the dog always choose snow rather than power?!!

[hrd-hr30]

that is silly

4WD=AWD

only time AWD is different is on a vehicle with 6+wheels, all of which is driven, then AWD=6WD etc, but same shit, all wheels driven.

4WD can be different , eg, a 6wheel vehicle with only four wheels driven, but in these private passenger vehicles, i doubt you will have these issues.

4WD does not equal AWD.

its all become a little blurred with the amount of soft-roaders out there now, but a proper 4WD used to have switchable front hubs from free wheeling to locked, and a manually selectable transfer case with low range 4WD. But there are some proper constant 4WD vehicles with a low ratio transfer case and lockable centre diff like 80 series Cruisers and Discos...

if it doesn't have low range, it ain't a 4WD. Its either an AWD crossover vehicle (soft roader) with a little bit of extra off road capabilities on bush tracks and sand, or an AWD road car thats really only going to give you extra capabilities in wet/snow/icy road conditions.

EG, some subarus have a low range transfer case (well a lower range than high range, but it really isn't a huge reduction) which makes them a 4WD crossover vehicle. The rest of the Subarus without low range are just constant AWDs

Edited January 14, 2009 by hrd-hr30

[BensDR30]

I have seen no evidence that the snow button does anything other than lock out first. The recommended setting for the (4 wheel) dyno (that I use) is to put on the snow button and select 2nd gear. That way there is no kick down. As you have noted yourself there is no effect on the Atessa. Why do you say "" why does it never toggle to power?" - do you have a faulty switch or are you saying why does the dog always choose snow rather than power?!!

When I put my car on the dyno, we selected 2nd, snow mode & synchroniser.

I'm talking about the dog - and I never notice until the first time I put my foot down from a stop & wonder why the car is sluggish...

[pixel8r]

4WD does not equal AWD.

its all become a little blurred with the amount of soft-roaders out there now, but a proper 4WD used to have switchable front hubs from free wheeling to locked, and a manually selectable transfer case with low range 4WD. But there are some proper constant 4WD vehicles with a low ratio transfer case and lockable centre diff like 80 series Cruisers and Discos...

if it doesn't have low range, it ain't a 4WD. Its either an AWD crossover vehicle (soft roader) with a little bit of extra off road capabilities on bush tracks and sand, or an AWD road car thats really only going to give you extra capabilities in wet/snow/icy road conditions.

EG, some subarus have a low range transfer case (well a lower range than high range, but it really isn't a huge reduction) which makes them a 4WD crossover vehicle. The rest of the Subarus without low range are just constant AWDs

I might just also add something for those who are confused about why we say 4WD does not equal AWD.

Sure, AWD does mean its driving all FOUR wheels, but what we mean when we say they're not the same is that the official labels "4WD" and "AWD" mean different things.

The 2 terms are used by car manufacturers etc to refer to how a car drives, and each has a slightly different definition.

Its this definition we are talking about here, nothing else.

You'll see some cars called one thing and some called another, and it just comes down to how the car's AWD/4WD system works.

[warps]

4WD and AWD are marketing terms used to differentiate between drivelines. They don't really have any technical significance. The acronym AWD was derived to separate constant 4WD vehicles (mainly soft roaders) from hard core off road 4WD vehicles, and it's all stemmed from there.

Let's not get our knickers in a knot because of some marketing jargon.

Just like Toyota claims to own the rights to "quad cam", despite 4 camshaft engines being around for many decades before Toyota even contemplated copying the idea.

It's all a bunch of wank the marketing boffins force upon us to try and sell more cars.

[JC807]

i was told a dealer selling an M35 that driving on the road with Synchro switched on is a big no-no. If you are getting drive train noises could it be that it is locking the front and rear diffs and wearing them prematurely?

[BensDR30]

i was told a dealer selling an M35 that driving on the road with Synchro switched on is a big no-no. If you are getting drive train noises could it be that it is locking the front and rear diffs and wearing them prematurely?

I would not endorse 'driving around' with the synchroniser on all the time (it probably would wear out the transfer case clutches at a faster rate). However the owners manual goes into a bit of detail regarding the function, & behaviour when it's used. One thing it clearly states is that when engaged, turning tightly at low speed will cause the wheels to hop - and that this is normal & not a problem with the system.