Video Cameras For Motorsport Use

[PHaT MR30]

Mic'd through Stilo, clear co-driver and engine pop's bangs etc

[Marlin]

That is one of the better ones, but on gravel and with anti-lag the car is always going to be much louder. I still think the co-driver is too loud in comparison, I find myself turning it down as you speak.

Don't take it personally, you have a nice voice Timmy

[benm]

I personally don't see the point of the RadCam, the reason why GoPro and Contour have sold 3,000,000:1 over Radcam is they are very small, very powerful and very easy to mount in just a few seconds. The RadCam is basically a fixed camera with a brick for a battery. Would be easier just to hire a film crew.

[BunsenBurna]

  On 14/02/2012 at 6:00 AM, PHaT MR30 said:

Mic'd through Stilo, clear co-driver and engine pop's bangs etc

Are the windows likely to be open in a rally scenario like this one?

Great vid!

[LotusGTR]

  On 14/02/2012 at 9:40 AM, benm said:

I personally don't see the point of the RadCam, the reason why GoPro and Contour have sold 3,000,000:1 over Radcam is they are very small, very powerful and very easy to mount in just a few seconds. The RadCam is basically a fixed camera with a brick for a battery. Would be easier just to hire a film crew.

Ben, if you're setting up a camera in a car how does size, weight and ease of install matter (within reason)? Not that the rad cam looks that onerous to me (I'm no expert mind you). Obviously it's better to have these qualities than not, but aren't image and sound quality, battery life, easy of use in car more important in this application? Seems the GoPro and Contour do not have the sound part nailed (so I've read on this thread, though have no personal experience). I guess I'm struggling to see how the downsides you've presented really are downsides. Also, does a lack of relative sales imply a product isn't good or perhaps that the application it's good in is limited compared to the other products? i.e. motorsport vs every other possible application?

Not trying to be arguementative but since this is a decision I'll be making soon, be good to hear more on your point of view.

[Snowman]

The sound is the challenge and I don't know if there is a perfect solution - especially in rally environment.

In a normal track day environment definitely an external mic under the dash is the way to go. Even in something like the little Caterhams and our POV camera that worked a treat.

For Targa last year we ran dual mics in the GT-R. One under the dash and another clipped onto Matress's harness (but that meant no driver voice input). It was done this way as my old intercom only had audio in.

Last weekend at Mt Baw Baw we just ran with the new audio into the new Stilo and I don't reckon there was enough car sound - so next time will run dual cables, with one into the intercom and one under the dash and that might be bang on.

FWIW - I spoke to the guys at Protech yesterday and the new VBOX HD camera is out in April. I reckon that will be the bee's knee's motorsports camera (but will be around the $2K mark)

[PHaT MR30]

  On 14/02/2012 at 9:04 PM, BunsenBurna said:

Are the windows likely to be open in a rally scenario like this one?

Great vid!

Windows up, but roof vent open

[ssxRicho]

Good old GoPro HD's (auto record when on), nokia mobile phones and Qstarz GPS units...

[Roy]

The MX5 video is interesting. What tyres and mods has he got. His corner speed is great. Makes the Skylines look clumsy

[ssxRicho]

The black NB is on NT-01 and the Red is on V70A's.

Both have coilovers (10Kg or 12KG springs)

[benm]

  On 14/02/2012 at 9:22 PM, LotusGTR said:

Ben, if you're setting up a camera in a car how does size, weight and ease of install matter (within reason)?

Setting up a gopro or contour can be done in literally 15 seconds, thats from approaching a random car to walking away. Suction cap it to any exterior surface or any interior window, adjust the camera angle and press power/record. Try doing that with a RadCam, its a 15min job that involves cable ties, race tape, etc and is 'generally' limited to interior footage only.

  Quote

but aren't image and sound quality, battery life, easy of use in car more important in this application?

Thier is no off-the-shelf camera on the market today that will give you good sound when mounted externally however just about all cameras will give great quality video for the club-trackday user. Battery comes down to management, if you are sitting in the pits with the camera on for 15mins before you go out on track well yes you will probably run out of battery before a trackday is finished but they all come with chargers and a second battery is quite cheap to carry with you.

Also what are the weight limits for cameras and motorsport?

[martyboy26]

  On 20/02/2012 at 10:16 AM, benm said:

Setting up a gopro or contour can be done in literally 15 seconds, thats from approaching a random car to walking away. Suction cap it to any exterior surface or any interior window, adjust the camera angle and press power/record. Try doing that with a RadCam, its a 15min job that involves cable ties, race tape, etc and is 'generally' limited to interior footage only.

Thier is no off-the-shelf camera on the market today that will give you good sound when mounted externally however just about all cameras will give great quality video for the club-trackday user. Battery comes down to management, if you are sitting in the pits with the camera on for 15mins before you go out on track well yes you will probably run out of battery before a trackday is finished but they all come with chargers and a second battery is quite cheap to carry with you.

Also what are the weight limits for cameras and motorsport?

To claify the position on weights for cameras in cars. There is due out soon a set of CAMS guidelines for mounting cameras in cars. I know, beacuse I was a consultant on the project. Broadly speaking, the weight limit is 200 grams including mounts for each component, without special mounting requirements. Anything over that will need to be enclosed in a special mount. Cameras like the RadCAM HD20, GoPro, Contour, Drift, Replay XD1080 are all well under that weight, and will all comply.

No cameras are to be mounted outside or inside unless there is a substantial secondary tether connected to stop accidental release of the camera. I have over 10 years experience in fitting onboard cameras for TV etc and so cameras like the RadCAM are very easy to install and use. I did the onboards for the GT Series at Phillip Island for One HD last year and trust me, if they were that hard to fit, I wouldn't use them. I did 10 cars by myself and even had to change mounting position in between races. The camera can be mounted outside as the new cables are thin enough to be routed inside, allowing the driver to operate the camera. Audio is then sorted as the mic is located on the receiver, rather than the camera mounted out in the breeze. The RadCAM is the official camera of the ARC, V8 Utes, Bondi Rescue, Targa, the Bathurst 12 hour and the WRC Academy etc etc., so it must have something going for it.

Battery life is always an issue as we all forget to turn off cameras from time to time and flat batteries are the cause of more lost potential footage than I care to remember.

No date set for release of the new guidelines, but I am told it will be soon.

[R31Nismoid]

Sounds like CAMS are about to go wild with more restrictions once again. I've NEVER seen a camera come off in the last 4 years at ANY event I've been to. Internal, external - wherever.

I can also tell you a ContourGPS, with suction mount, half of which is metal - is over 200g. I have one next to me right now...

Or does it mean camera 200g, mount 200g - so 400g total?

[martyboy26]

  On 20/02/2012 at 11:18 AM, R31Nismoid said:

Sounds like CAMS are about to go wild with more restrictions once again. I've NEVER seen a camera come off in the last 4 years at ANY event I've been to. Internal, external - wherever.

I can also tell you a ContourGPS, with suction mount, half of which is metal - is over 200g. I have one next to me right now...

Or does it mean camera 200g, mount 200g - so 400g total?

Let's wait until the guidelines are released, but my understanding is camera and mount is included in the weight. CAMS are quite right to expect a secondary tether on something held on by nothing more that vacum, and reliant on the user applying it correctly.

[Marlin]

Benm, such unfounded hate for radCam and it's ilk. 15 minutes you state is laughable.

Radcam and others like it featuring a remote camera are actually easier to mount successfully than a GoPro. You can actually see a screen showing the view the camera sees, making accurate setup of the view MUCH easier. The lipstick camera uses a similar suction mount if you desire it, and the main body of the unit is simply attached to anything using the pouch and velcro straps, or even thrown in the cetre console of gloebox. If the main body and screen are out of reach, they supply a remote for record on/off.

With a GoPro you're sometimes guessing the view it's recording because you cannot stick you eye in its bloody lense (cheap-arse thing has no screen). I've thrown my back out trying to access the view lense of one, and trying to turn one on or off when strapped in and it's mounted between the seats of a race car is laughable.

I think Martyboy has given a pretty fair review, "I have over 10 years experience in fitting onboard cameras for TV etc and so cameras like the RadCAM are very easy to install and use. I did the onboards for the GT Series at Phillip Island for One HD last year and trust me, if they were that hard to fit, I wouldn't use them. I did 10 cars by myself and even had to change mounting position in between races. The camera can be mounted outside as the new cables are thin enough to be routed inside, allowing the driver to operate the camera. Audio is then sorted as the mic is located on the receiver, rather than the camera mounted out in the breeze. The RadCAM is the official camera of the ARC, V8 Utes, Bondi Rescue, Targa, the Bathurst 12 hour and the WRC Academy etc etc., so it must have something going for it."

GoPro's and their type have their place, but in my opinion, they're far from a good solution for race cars where the sound, and ease of use should be a high priority.

*** I'm comparing similarly priced units here, if you're loaded, there's even better, more expensive units available. But most DO require a bit more time to set up to get the most from them.

[sav man]

I've used a gopro and a radcam. And i'd never use a gopro again, hard to setup (if you care what is in frame), crap sound, hard to know if the bloody thing is recording when your strapped in(many missed stages in targa cause of this). I swap my radcam between cars pretty often, and change mounting locations during events (including exterior) with no problems.

[R31Nismoid]

Might as well chuck in a mini review/thoughts... Having used a GoPro couple weeks ago, and a ContourGPS

Both were ok, but not great and had their own issues.

GoPro - Cannot see where it's pointing. This is being fixed in the next model apparently which will bluetooth to a phone or device so you can see.

ContourGPS - Cannot see where it's pointing, although it does have 2 laser dots to at least help align. It does have a bluetooth application for Android, however I could not get it to sync with my 6 month old Android phone no matter how many times i tried so there are clearly inherrant flaws in the sync/software.

Battery life was also terrible.

- Both were easy to operate/turn on. GoPro a little more difficult initially, it's a simple case of pressing a button too long and turns it to camera mode rather than video. Once you understand this however it has very simple 2-button operation.

Contour is a slid-button operation once on. (took me 3-4mins to work out, didn't have user manual)

- Mounting took all of about 5 seconds either way. Suction makes simple.

- GoPro sound was non-existent it was that bad. It was mounted externally.

- ContourGPS sound was average at best. It was mounted internally

[ssxRicho]

Ash did the GoPro have the full back on it or the one with holes, was the rubber seal in there?

There is a firmware update for the GoPro which allows you to record automatically once the camera is turned on, which is great for getting around the double press and moving into photo mode which was a pain.

Contour will sync with iPhone as well now.

GoPro has an expansion pack for LCD screen, can use on the HD and HD:2 and an extended battery. I've used the LCD pack it's great. Though does increase the weight of the camera...Though I did use it on the back of the car around Winton as it was find.

[Marlin]

.............. and how do you find the sound of the GoPro? Good, or do you just put music over the top of your vids?

[Roy]

I have both Radcam and GoPro and i think the Radcam just edges it. The new GoPro with external mic could be a good thing, the picture quality in varying lights seems to self adjust better. The other negative on the GoPro is understandwing what the hell you are actually filming, a bluetooth link to your phone to adjust and setup woudl be a good feature.

Below is footage with a Radcam

You can see the open top car with wind noise, changing light conditions/sun etc is a problem for all in varying degrees. The other hiccup is youtube seems to kill the quality of the vid when you upload so again you lose some of the quality that the GoPro and Radcam have over POV