Deciding Whether Or Not To Build A Cheap Track Car

[kingscorp]

Sounds like your on your way. Many race cars start out by doing speed events, then they evolve into full on race cars.

Some advice!, if you think you will end up ciruit racing, pick a category you think you would like to race in and modify your car to fit with in these rules. example, if you do decide to race improved production, you will have to remove the light weight boot and put the original one on, just an example. Other wise you will spend heaps of $ modifying your car and another heap of $ modifying it again to fit within a category.

Ash

I'd have to agree with buying something that is as close to complete as possible.

Just for reference; my NA silvia cost me 6250 and was already run on the track regularly. I've only spent another 1750 on it including new semis, rewiring, light weight boot lid and a cheap radiator. But i've swapped in a heap of stuff of the skyline (diff, seat, steering wheel, gauges, wheels, brakes) which at cost prices was around 4k worth.

And i am getting the turbo engine sorted atm which already owes around 3k with the repair of the turbo and new housing, purchase of the engine, manifold, gate and assorted misc bits and pieces.

And i still have to buy cams and injectors for the new engine

And re bush the suspension

And get some new front springs and shocks and reco the rears

And, once the new engine goes in, i reckon i'll be up for a new clutch and box

And i haven't even bought a trailer yet....

[kingscorp]

Oh I see!

alloy cage - check - negatory!

Ash - have you seen much with the commodore cup cars or the like?

As in they go pretty well? lap some good times?

Ive really got to stop looking at my105....my fiance's going to kill me soon

Alloy cage is good because it light, but its not good if you decide to put it on its roof or drive it into a wall!

I have never see Commodore cup racing, we dont have them over here in WA, I have seen a Commodore Cup car with a gen 3 5.7ltr v8 in it, it made good hp on the dyno and was doing 67 second lap times around Barbagallo. To run at the front in Improved Production you need to be doing 64's at Barbagallo, the v8 Supercars are doing 58's

The Improved Production National championship was help at Oran Park in Novemeber last year, there were 88 cars entered! The guys at the fronnt were lapping Oran Park in about 76 seconds. The V8 supercar grand finale in decemeber the v8 supercars were doing 72's from memory.

On MY105 are you looking under circuit cars, then sedans?

ash

[BezerkR32]

i love some of the adds on there, Ready to race, has Nissan steering wheel & pod filter lol.

In all seriousness there are some great buys on there.

Oh I see!

alloy cage - check - negatory!

Ash - have you seen much with the commodore cup cars or the like?

As in they go pretty well? lap some good times?

Ive really got to stop looking at my105....my fiance's going to kill me soon

[kingscorp]

i love some of the adds on there, Ready to race, has Nissan steering wheel & pod filter lol.

In all seriousness there are some great buys on there.

Funny hey ready to race to the shops!

Your right, at the moment there are heaps of great buys

Ash

[BezerkR32]

actually i reckon the red vn commodore including trailer is the best buy. its only a six but its very tidy and has alot of potential.

Funny hey ready to race to the shops!

Your right, at the moment there are heaps of great buys

Ash

[evil_weevil]

Ash, yep thats where Im looking!

I had a look at natsoft, and some of the commodore saloon cars - the fastest time at OP was 1.20 and slowest was a 1.26

Not bad considering its still the basic, old buick style 3.8L!

Yeah that VN does seem a good buy, ready to race.

The only reason Im even considering one of these, would be parts are easy, cheap and common! I would imagine it wouldnt break my budget! but then...it is motorsport

I still dont wanna sell my 33 though!

[R33_Dude]

I dissappear for a few days and my thread has gone crazy!

There are some excellent posts there by kingscorp and I have to say thanks for all the information in particular the lists of parts - very informative.

Honestly though the car is only going to be used for club, private, track open days, and motorkhanas (at least to start with) - hence my want to keep the initial budget low. Improved production racing is way beyond someone of my limited experience. Plus I want to build it myself partly because I enjoy these projects and partly for the experience - while it might take me six months to actually get it driving I would like to be able to do it myself.

I have lined up a few interesting cars all the same which I will be going to look at over the next week or so, which range from the comparatively lightweight S13's and R32's to a fat 300zx twin turbo and just about everything in between.

I will keep everyone posted I suppose as to what is happening.

[kingscorp]

Ash, yep thats where Im looking!

I had a look at natsoft, and some of the commodore saloon cars - the fastest time at OP was 1.20 and slowest was a 1.26

Not bad considering its still the basic, old buick style 3.8L!

Yeah that VN does seem a good buy, ready to race.

The only reason Im even considering one of these, would be parts are easy, cheap and common! I would imagine it wouldnt break my budget! but then...it is motorsport

I still dont wanna sell my 33 though!

I agree they are quick for what they are, there are some good drivers in those fields. 6 seconds per lap difference in cars that should be similar shows there is a range of driver talents. I thought you were takling about Commodore Cup cars not Saloon Cars.

If you decide to race saloon cars consider that they are all very similar and have many restrictions, so any gain in performance will be small and will cost heaps. Then you might decide to make mods that do not fit within the rules and the car value will reduce.

Sorry but racing a VN Commodore V6 would not excite me, but thats my opinon!

Spend 10k on your 33 and it will be worth no more, or sell your 33 and spend 10k more than you sell it for and buy a good race car. You can pretty much say that a race car purchased for 20k would have cost upwards of 40k to build.

The pic of the cars on the MY105 would n]be that early RX7, it would be that fastest of the lot and the cheapest to run bang for your buck

Ash

[kingscorp]

I dissappear for a few days and my thread has gone crazy!

There are some excellent posts there by kingscorp and I have to say thanks for all the information in particular the lists of parts - very informative.

Honestly though the car is only going to be used for club, private, track open days, and motorkhanas (at least to start with) - hence my want to keep the initial budget low. Improved production racing is way beyond someone of my limited experience. Plus I want to build it myself partly because I enjoy these projects and partly for the experience - while it might take me six months to actually get it driving I would like to be able to do it myself.

I have lined up a few interesting cars all the same which I will be going to look at over the next week or so, which range from the comparatively lightweight S13's and R32's to a fat 300zx twin turbo and just about everything in between.

I will keep everyone posted I suppose as to what is happening.

Glad you got something from it. I dont want to scare people away from motoracing becasue of the expense but i thought you should know what it does actually cost. Having said that the fealing of racing and winning is brilliant. Racing hard and side by side with other people who share the same enthusiasm for motorsport is sensational and really is an adrenalin rush.

I highly recommend the Silvia range. I have just built one (S14a) and it will be quick. You cant go wrong, it ticks all the boxes. Give it time and you will find the Silvia range will be very popular on a race circuit not only drifting. I recon you could built a reasonable s13 for about 20 - 25k including the cost of the car, it would mean doing alot yourself, which is what you wanted to do. You could use the Skyline brakes, set of Koni and King springs (Better and cheaper than any Jap coilover kit), china intercooler and manifolds, good rims from Ebay, Standard turbo with restrictor, Nice seat and harnesess $1000, basic guages. Or you could build a quick N/A sr20, that would be cool.

Improved Production is not beyond what your capable of, the leval of driving thoughout the category ranges from Novice to up coming and current Australian stars. One thing you will find is that there will always someone you can race with.

If you want to see some in car from some of my racing is click these links, you can watch in high quality and then in big screen. The footage is from a 500hp series 6 rx7 with PPG dog Box. I hope you enjoy

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rvdxGSM09zo

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=InqAC6GtjGA

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=l5wpyEK48fI

For more footage search YouTube for IPRAWA or SCRAWA

Ash

Edited January 25, 2009 by kingscorp

[racegtst]

Honestly though the car is only going to be used for club, private, track open days, and motorkhanas (at least to start with) - hence my want to keep the initial budget low. Improved production racing is way beyond someone of my limited experience. Plus I want to build it myself partly because I enjoy these projects and partly for the experience - while it might take me six months to actually get it driving I would like to be able to do it myself.

I think people are pushing there own agendas or budgets.

He has stated several times above that he is interested in entry (absolute grass roots) level motorsport that is affordable with what he has got. He also has stated that his driving experience is limited. Therefore he would like to take it all in baby steps.

I back you up R33_Dude. I am doing the same.

It is not about winning or door to door serious racing (IPRAWA is serious business at the front) it is about the build, fun and the social side of it.

[evil_weevil]

Sorry ash, had a few drinks by then ha ha what I meant was I was thinking of buying an ex saloon car for supersprints! I got mixed up with cup and saloon cars! I don't see myself racing door todoor, it's a hobby for me, and sprints are fun!!

I'm on same idea as r33 dude as trackdays, but more club supersprints and hill climbs!

[kingscorp]

I think people are pushing there own agendas or budgets.

He has stated several times above that he is interested in entry (absolute grass roots) level motorsport that is affordable with what he has got. He also has stated that his driving experience is limited. Therefore he would like to take it all in baby steps.

I back you up R33_Dude. I am doing the same.

It is not about winning or door to door serious racing (IPRAWA is serious business at the front) it is about the build, fun and the social side of it.

I not pushing my own agenda and I cant see how it would benifit me?

Speaking from experience, 8 years ago I sounded just like you, I wanted to do some Motokahans and sprints, ended up spending heaps of money building a car to do that, then again spent heaps more developing the car to do circuit racing. If I had built the car with the final destination in mind I would have saved big $$$.

IP racing is grass roots door to door racing! Its as serious as you want to make it.

Edited January 25, 2009 by kingscorp

[phunky_monkey]

I think people are pushing there own agendas or budgets.

He has stated several times above that he is interested in entry (absolute grass roots) level motorsport that is affordable with what he has got. He also has stated that his driving experience is limited. Therefore he would like to take it all in baby steps.

I back you up R33_Dude. I am doing the same.

It is not about winning or door to door serious racing (IPRAWA is serious business at the front) it is about the build, fun and the social side of it.

I don't think people are pushing their own agenda, I think some good advice has been given out. All they'rte saying is that if you want to build a car for sprints, you may as well build it for a class so that if you do one day desire to go door to door racing then you can, which is a smart way to do it... which is not what I did

[djr81]

I don't think people are pushing their own agenda, I think some good advice has been given out. All they'rte saying is that if you want to build a car for sprints, you may as well build it for a class so that if you do one day desire to go door to door racing then you can, which is a smart way to do it... which is not what I did

Yes but....

The thing you need to remember about class cars (eg IPRA) is that they require the use of a number of stock components and/or restrict the cars to using, as an example, smaller than what may be ideal tyres. They do this in order to make the racing more competitive.

So you need to apply some common sense in modifying a sprint/hillclimb car with a view to later using it as a proper race car. EG look at the IPRA regs with regard to front suspension freedoms. You would be mad to ignore front end modifications on a sprint/hillclimb car just to comply with IPRA regs. Simply because if you do your car will be slower & less fun to drive. Not to mention chew its front tyres.

Edited January 27, 2009 by djr81

[BezerkR32]

unfortunately his budget will get him into a go-kart, gear and a trailer. thats the truth, not being a smart arse. people were just giving him advice on there past experience, and trying to save him money as he already has a limited budget. and karting is grass roots.

I think people are pushing there own agendas or budgets.

He has stated several times above that he is interested in entry (absolute grass roots) level motorsport that is affordable with what he has got. He also has stated that his driving experience is limited. Therefore he would like to take it all in baby steps.

I back you up R33_Dude. I am doing the same.

It is not about winning or door to door serious racing (IPRAWA is serious business at the front) it is about the build, fun and the social side of it.

[phunky_monkey]

Yes but....

The thing you need to remember about class cars (eg IPRA) is that they require the use of a number of stock components and/or restrict the cars to using, as an example, smaller than what may be ideal tyres. They do this in order to make the racing more competitive.

So you need to apply some common sense in modifying a sprint/hillclimb car with a view to later using it as a proper race car. EG look at the IPRA regs with regard to front suspension freedoms. You would be mad to ignore front end modifications on a sprint/hillclimb car just to comply with IPRA regs. Simply because if you do your car will be slower & less fun to drive. Not to mention chew its front tyres.

I should have specified, I'm not saying that it should be built entirely to the rules but it would be handy to build it quite close to the specs of a racing class that you may want to enter into in the future to save money. By all means change castor rods etc, because they're cheap and easy, but maybe don't build a bored/stroked monster that will never fit into any class if you have aspirations of one day doing door to door racing.

[racegtst]

Yes but....

The thing you need to remember about class cars (eg IPRA) is that they require the use of a number of stock components and/or restrict the cars to using, as an example, smaller than what may be ideal tyres. They do this in order to make the racing more competitive.

So you need to apply some common sense in modifying a sprint/hillclimb car with a view to later using it as a proper race car. EG look at the IPRA regs with regard to front suspension freedoms. You would be mad to ignore front end modifications on a sprint/hillclimb car just to comply with IPRA regs. Simply because if you do your car will be slower & less fun to drive. Not to mention chew its front tyres.

Along the lines i was trying to say, but maybe i was a bit blunt and my apologies for that.

unfortunately his budget will get him into a go-kart, gear and a trailer. thats the truth, not being a smart arse. people were just giving him advice on there past experience, and trying to save him money as he already has a limited budget. and karting is grass roots.

The advice given here has been great and is useful.

You can have great fun at sprint level with a basic (standardish) performance car like the Skyline etc. I did the WA CAMS Speed Event Series about 4 years ago and was able to win my class (over 5,000cc road reg) with basic mods to a R33. Today to win my class i am up against thisngs like Targa prepared V8 Commodore Utes etc. The SES is a learnig ground that IMO allows you learn gradually and make modifications as you go. Knowing this i have recently purchased another R33 and will build it slowly over a 4 or 5 year period. I may never do IPRAWA or SCRWA or Targe West but knowing that i could with the right changes is worth the flexibility. Having said that then i would propbably get a Escort again.

4 Years ago 20% of the cars in SES were running sticky tyres, now 90% run sticky tyres.

[djr81]

You can have great fun at sprint level with a basic (standardish) performance car like the Skyline etc. I did the WA CAMS Speed Event Series about 4 years ago and was able to win my class (over 5,000cc road reg) with basic mods to a R33. Today to win my class i am up against thisngs like Targa prepared V8 Commodore Utes etc. The SES is a learnig ground that IMO allows you learn gradually and make modifications as you go. Knowing this i have recently purchased another R33 and will build it slowly over a 4 or 5 year period. I may never do IPRAWA or SCRWA or Targe West but knowing that i could with the right changes is worth the flexibility. Having said that then i would propbably get a Escort again.

4 Years ago 20% of the cars in SES were running sticky tyres, now 90% run sticky tyres.

Well the SES has come a very long way in the last few years. I cannot think of anyone doing anything like a full series & not running R compounds. Although some classes are still a bit on the hollow side, some are massively over subscribed. eg there were a lazy 20 AWD's amongst the 100 entrants at the Xmas sprint last year.

Anyway the point should be made. A car cannot be made competitive for $10k. So just focus on the fun component.

Edited January 27, 2009 by djr81

[R33_Dude]

Well I am about to buy a manual S13 complete with CA18DET, a tad dirty and in need of a new front bar and some lovin' but mechanically spot on (and all stock bar a pod filter) with coilovers and new DBA gold slotted rotors. Desperately in need of some better tyres though.

In response to some people here. I am not going to be competitive in any way (at least not yet). This is a learning and fun experience.

I am not too fond of go karting no matter how fun it is - I have had a bit to do with go karts in the past. I prefer the full sized car. I don't care if I will be ridiculously slow. To restate what I said earlier I just want to have fun.

The ten thousand is my initial budget - car, basic modifications, etc. I suspect I will see this balloon out to at least double this by the end of the year. Lets not get confused between a someone wanting to build a cheap, fun car to take to club days and someone who wants to be leading the field.

[Marlin]

Good news mate, great little thing to have some fun in! Well done