R32 Gtr Suspension

[BBGTR]

Hmm, ok. I am more than a little confused. I can find three steering inputs to the HICAS system (left, straight ahead & right) but none into the ETS control unit. (Page CH66 of the manual).

It has 4x wheel speed.

Inputs for the three (2 foreaft & 1 lateral) accelerometers

Stop lamp switch input.

Reverse lamp switch input.

Throttle signal input.

But I cannot find a steering input in the ETS system.

oooook, maybe are you right....- I'm no expert. I might be getting mixed up with later versions that I thought had steering angle inputs <*goes to google for the answer*>

[LotusGTR]

http://www.hraefn.net/projects/spring_rates.php

Converts spring rate units. Easy enough to find but may be of some use on this forum / thread

[djr81]

oooook, maybe are you right....- I'm no expert. I might be getting mixed up with later versions that I thought had steering angle inputs <*goes to google for the answer*>

Who knows there is so much dis information about ATTESSA floating about. Too many versions & not enough source info from Nissan.

I was hoping to log the inputs via my DL1 & then map then outputs but after getting through about 8 pages of warnings from RT about tapping into wheel speed sensors I stopped.

Anyway maybe we should let Nick have his thread back about teh dampers....

http://www.hraefn.net/projects/spring_rates.php

Converts spring rate units. Easy enough to find but may be of some use on this forum / thread

Seasy, really.

1kg/mm equals 55lb/in.

100lb/inch = 1.8kg/mm

Edited March 20, 2009 by djr81

[LotusGTR]

Who knows there is so much dis information about ATTESSA floating about. Too many versions & not enough source info from Nissan.

I was hoping to log the inputs via my DL1 & then map then outputs but after getting through about 8 pages of warnings from RT about tapping into wheel speed sensors I stopped.

Anyway maybe we should let Nick have his thread back about teh dampers....

Seasy, really.

1kg/mm equals 55lb/in.

100lb/inch = 1.8kg/mm

Yes, until you get quoted spring rates in N/mm.....Yes, roughly 10N per kg, but......

[Ronin 09]

fyi I'm running 8kg/6kg in my 32

[LotusGTR]

http://www.importmonster.com.au/view?url=h...&title=TEIN

OK, back to me. Now let's assume I do a flip flop on my last suggested course of action and buy something like BB GTR suggested as per his link at the beginning of this thread.

Questions are as follows:

1. How likely are these able to be re-valved to a softer settings. I hear BB GTR and other 'Benno' set ups are very track orientated, which might be to OTT for me as I'm not chasing times. Might be too hard for my mountain passes and road driving.

2. How much to re-valve.

3. How much for springs, as these will no doubt need replacing

I'll assume fitment and alignment for around $400. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Total items:

Coilovers

Springs

Re-build / re-valve of coilovers

Fitting and alignment

Forget anything?

Cheers.

[Roy]

The beauty of the "Benno" GTR stuff that it works well on the track, but what amazes me is the ride and compliance. Going for drives in Snowmans car and driving Jag33s car from PI pissed me off as their suspension works amazingly well on the track and was more compliant and a nicer ride then the Whiteline Bilsteins in my car

[BBGTR]

Nick,

All I'll say is that I quite regularly drive my car to work and find it about the same or maybe a little better than say a HSV. (I drove a new GTS down to P.I. the other week for the historics so it's a recent comparo).

The extra bump valve work that Ben seems to do on the TEINs (more bump capacity) really makes a big difference and kind of eliminates the pogo effect you would expect with hardish spring rates.

You could drop the spring rates back 150lbs and it would soak up just about any bump that the reefton spur or similar type of sunday morning drive has on it.

Decisions, decisions.

Andrew

[LotusGTR]

Thanks fellas. Got any ideas about cost? I've got to establish max buying price for a second hand set of Teins, and need rough est. of the additional items. I'd hope it would end up meaningfully less than the drive in drive out options (putting aside the question of what will deliver the best outcome......which I still don't bloody know!!).

[Roy]

Just give Racepace a call. It may be difficult to price the rebuild when you can look at the condition of the shocks to start with. I shouldnt do this as i was going to buy them but give me until late tonight and i will get you the info on some cheap new Teins. They are perfect because any Racepace costs will be simply spring and revalving, not rebuilding.

[LotusGTR]

You have a PM with the details, but Racepace are unable to help me.

[LotusGTR]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Dm...oc-t257381.html

OK, now I'm hot for these. Thanks Kaga San. Still to have the final word from Roy!, but the adjustability of the damping once in the car is very tempting. Gives a hack like me a good opportunity to fiddle and learn. Easy to change the whole feel of the car. Spring rates you choose for yourself, so you get exactly what you want right from the beginning.

By all accounts they're great quality, rebuildable, locally made.

If these are the ticket, then my problems to solve are spring rates, where to get them fitted (I can work this out) and whether the std GTR strut tops will suffice.

Main question is spring rates.

I'll search and research and re-read this thread now.

Comments? Suggestions? (keep them polite).

[Roy]

LOL, if you like the idea of DMS then you can do worse. DMS have a strong reputation and plenty of runs on the board with their products being run in plnety of Targa cars. Beaumont runs them in his Evos and his cars have won enough Duttons etc to be able to say the shocks work well.

On every shock you will get mixed feelings, but DMS do have a strong following and reputation. If i was you though talk to Techsport or a few other agents. When i was looking at them a few people told me not to worry about the 50mm track version, the 40mm street version would be fine. The thinking is the 50mm is more about durability then superior performance, and since i am not doing dirt or tarmac rallies then the abuse the shock has to put up with on light track duties means i would have been able . Though i like the two way adjustability of the DMS shock myself which always made me think they would be worth the extra money.

So a good thing, most importantly locally supported. But, again, i am just an idiot on the internet who has never driven a car with this suspension. So, lol shame we cant rewind 6 years and Merli take you for a ride in his old R33 as he used to run them and was happy with them in his track GTSt.

[LotusGTR]

OK, so it seems springs are 7kg/mm front and 5kg/mm rear. I've read up to 12 and 10 respectively (BBGTR), but the thinking seems to be after market swaybars = less required spring rate.

Ride height, forgot that. 350mm front and 340mm rear?

Getting near to the end now.........(maybe).

[LotusGTR]

OK, so it seems springs are 7kg/mm front and 5kg/mm rear. I've read up to 12 and 10 respectively (BBGTR), but the thinking seems to be after market swaybars = less required spring rate.

Ride height, forgot that. 350mm front and 340mm rear?

Getting near to the end now.........(maybe).

and further to this....

Rowdy 7, 5

Some Tein SSs 5,4

BBGTR 12,10

Ronin09 8,6

S'Kid 7,5

T04GTR 6,5

Ride height 355 / 345 as an alt to the above.

Running 265/35 18 or 245/40 RE55.

[BBGTR]

Just wanted to check that I wasn't kidding myself on the front spring rates.

[LotusGTR]

Just wanted to check that I wasn't kidding myself on the front spring rates.

You officially have the tautest springs on SAU

Further to the above, my car is not daily driven.

Can a mod turn this into a survey?

[LotusGTR]

A couple of further points.

Seems with DMS product you need spherical top mounts (in the front for sure. Do such things exist in the rear?). I understand that these are noisier, prone to wear, but give much more of a direct feel? A comment of how much this aspect of things needs to be considered would be appreciated. Oh yeah, they're expensive too...

Other question is what is exactly involved in an alignment? Yeah, they hook it up to a machine and it measures things and then they adjust it all. But what do they really do? Clearly the spring damper units just bolt into the car, so that leaves, castor, camber, toe etc to be set. Swaybar adjustment does not sounds like alignment so much as setting up. Some clarification on this would be great.

[djr81]

A couple of further points.

Seems with DMS product you need spherical top mounts (in the front for sure. Do such things exist in the rear?). I understand that these are noisier, prone to wear, but give much more of a direct feel? A comment of how much this aspect of things needs to be considered would be appreciated. Oh yeah, they're expensive too...

Other question is what is exactly involved in an alignment? Yeah, they hook it up to a machine and it measures things and then they adjust it all. But what do they really do? Clearly the spring damper units just bolt into the car, so that leaves, castor, camber, toe etc to be set. Swaybar adjustment does not sounds like alignment so much as setting up. Some clarification on this would be great.

The whole spherical (for want of a better term) top mounts things is somewhat overblown. If you look at the amount of rubber isolation inthe stock suspension you will find it to be minimal. It doesn't take much effort to put a small amount of rubber between the spring & the top plate of the suspension. Just be careful if, like BB's set up or the front of the SK setup with Eibachs that the rubber is retained at full droop because the spring is not.

Yeah an alignment runs to ride height (If you haven't done it yet), castor, camber then toe. Just be carefull where you take it as half the places cannot fit there gear on your car when you run more than a couple of degrees of -ve camber. Sway bars dont form part of the alignment. Note also than the typical japanese sway bars (eg Cusco) are stiffer than the local stuff, most noticeably at the front.

As an aside (ie the most important bit of the post), does anyone have an easy solution to enable people to reduce the amount of rubber in the Sk setup for EIbach/Bilstein. Here is a photo. There is a good 20mm of rubber in there (actually the old shock bump stop rubber). So how do you remove it without needing to run a huge bumpstop on the dampers. Also who sells this sort of stuff?

[LotusGTR]

OK. We'll I've now had a chat with a local DMS agent and they can use Nolathane spring tops with the existing mounts (with a little fabrication). The DMS springs are straight as opposed to the tapered variety which are stock, so hence the need. Nolathane in place of steel or aluminium means there will be less noise transfer at the top of the spring to the car (which will shit me).

They're suggesting a dual rate spring, with thinner gauge spring top for more compliance on the intial travel, then the full spring rate beyond that. What do we all think of linear springs versus 2 stage?

I should have a quote for all this frigging around, some time tomorrow.