The Hoon Laws In Practice

[MLCrisis]

Hi, all. You all know about the issues we have with the "Hoon Laws". Now is your chance to do something about them. This thread is for South Australia to gather information about the practice of the hoon laws in your state. This is what I said in the similar thread, now a sticky, in WA:

I believe that the "hoon" laws are badly drafted and give the police far too much power. They are bad law! There are sufficient laws without them. The rules of evidence are also being seriously diluted by pursuing convictions on the word of members of the public. Little old ladies phoning up to say "he was going very fast" should not constitute sufficient evidence. Hopefully it does not, but we shall see.

Populist measures are too easy for politicians, but by implementing such poorly thought out laws those politicians fail to do their duty to ensure that the laws they enact are sound. If they are not sound, they bring the whole system into disrespute. More particularly, they place the Police in the impossible position of applying those laws in an impartial manner, when their human frailty means falling short is inevitable. Hence, they themselves become undermined by the very position that these laws put them into.

I would like to compile evidence of the hoon laws in practice. So if you know of poor application of the law, inappropriate actions by police using the hoon laws, the use of questionnable evidence, or similar, please let me know via this thread and/or pm. Please only first hand experience - not "I know a bloke, who's mate's girfriend's brother".

If we compile sufficient evidence, I intend to put a submission to the Government to change the law. Let the punishment fit the crime!

If anyone else has experiences they are prepared to share, please add them on. Good experiences as well as bad. If you were done fair and square, then please say so. If the policeman was reasonable in his/her behaviour, please say so. If they were aggressive and overbearing, let us know. If you were aggressive and disrespectful, let us know. Best to have basic facts here and more detail in a pm.

Thanks everyone. Please note that I am not knocking the Police, they do a hard job that not many people would do. But a badly framed law allows them to overstep their real powers and some of them will use it - because they are not all saints!

So there you go. We need good data to support our argument. We need information in each state to fight this, as no state government will want to go it alone in repealing them.

Please be careful in what you post. This is not intended to be a thread for you to rant or argue. It is to gather facts.

Thanks guys. Go to it!!

Cheers.

[rhys5169]

great to see someone willing to put in the hard yards and stand up for the rest, 2 thumbs up mate

[RubyRS4]

You've already made it quite clear you want to gather info to oppose the hoon laws. So this thread has started off on the wrong foot. Constantly feeding narrow-minded views is not productive at all. But you're in the right place for your target market. I wish you luck in your endless fight for your right to hoon. Here's my input ...

A very close female friend of mine (also an ex-girlfriend) whom I knew for more than 11 years was killed by a speeding car when the hoon driver t-boned her car, instantly making her brain dead!

The driver has been previously caught in the months leading up to this for speeding, burnouts, and road rage behaviour. But yet he was still on the road hooning because the police were powerless. Now if these hoons laws were in place at the time, then my friend would never have died.

I would like to see how each and everyone of you would handle seeing a very close friend killed by a hoon and seeing them on life support, then watching their life slip away as the life support system is turned off. RIP Sonia Warne

I've had other friends killed by hooning, but this experience is the most powerful one that I will never forget. I support the hoon laws 100%. And I will support them when they get stricter. I think the hoon laws are too soft at the moment.

Edited January 28, 2009 by RubyRS4

[nisskid]

The driver has been previously caught in the months leading up to this for speeding, burnouts, and road rage behaviour. But yet he was still on the road hooning because the police were powerless. Now if these hoons laws were in place at the time, then my friend would never have died.

so they were speeding, doing burnouts, and road rafe and the police were powerless to do anything? lol, how about reckless/dangerous driving, speeding, loss of control, undue care and whatever laws are associated with road rage,

police were't powerless, there were plenty of avenue's they could have taken but didnt, either because they didnt have sufficient evidence (in which case hoon laws wouldnt have helped either), they were too lazy, or thought they would give him just a warning.

i hardly think impounding his car for 24hrs or whatever it is would have been enough of a deterant for someone like that.

[nisskid]

just found this on ns, maybe its a bit harsher than i originally thought:

1st offence $2000 in fines/ fees, car 1 week in impound and defected, loss of licence 15 months ! ( this is me ) not a mate or a story.

Maybe Police/ courts thought this was fair but people who are involved in major car accidents, that injure and perhaps kill other people get off alot less and either are only charged with failure to control a vehicle or failing to give way how is this fair when the hoon didnt hurt anyone but they use COULD OFF hurt someone as the worst thing ever..

honestly if thats first offense thats utter bs. for how little amount "hooning" makes up the road toll, it just doesnt add up.

[CRoNic...]

15 month license loss for doing a burnout on a side street?

Okay.

[SLED]

correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think MLCrisis is looking for is not how soft the hoon laws are but how the police either over exercise them or take advantage of them to give the average Joe Blow a hard time.......ie when it comes to unfair targeting of individuals just because they seem young, over aggressive behaviour towards them, petty defects, etc. when there are already strict measures in place to deal with real hoon behaviour and yet their approach to those particular individuals is soft.

Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong.

[MLCrisis]

You've already made it quite clear you want to gather info to oppose the hoon laws. So this thread has started off on the wrong foot. Constantly feeding narrow-minded views is not productive at all. But you're in the right place for your target market. I wish you luck in your endless fight for your right to hoon. Here's my input ...

A very close female friend of mine (also an ex-girlfriend) whom I knew for more than 11 years was killed by a speeding car when the hoon driver t-boned her car, instantly making her brain dead!

I understand your anger and sympathise with your loss, but you have not read what I said. I am not fighting for an endless right to hoon. Far from it. I believe that those who drive irresponsibly should be punished appropriately.

My point is that through the hoon laws the punishment does not fit the crime. There are more than adequate laws and punishments for reckless driving, careless driving and even for causing death by dangerous driving. The hoon laws add nothing to these, except to allow cops huge discretion in applying disproportionate punishment for people who commit, in the main, anti-social acts. Screeching your tyres when taking off from a junction is rather different from doing a massive burnout. In the former, you may annoy a few people, in the latter you could lose control and kill someone.

Fining someone $30,000, i.e. by permanently confiscating their car, for three anti-social acts is ridiculous. Particularly when recidivist drunk drivers are fined no more than $5,000!

I am not seeking open slather for hoons. I am seeking to get bad law changed. Bad law undermines the legal system and those who enforce it. Politicians who implement bad law are failing to do their duty in ensuring the legal system is sound and has the support of the public. The hysteria surrounding hoons has allowed them to implement populist measures that are bad law. If we let that continue, the numbers of people alienated by injustice will grow and the support for the legal system and the cops will diminish.

So I offer my condolences for your loss, but read what I have said!

correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think MLCrisis is looking for is not how soft the hoon laws are but how the police either over exercise them or take advantage of them to give the average Joe Blow a hard time.......ie when it comes to unfair targeting of individuals just because they seem young, over aggressive behaviour towards them, petty defects, etc. when there are already strict measures in place to deal with real hoon behaviour and yet their approach to those particular individuals is soft.

Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong.

Spot on, mate.

Cheers.

[bezender]

i have been threatened to have my car impounded/boot put on it a couple of times. in my case it was valid cos i was driving like a w4nker. It certainly has got the message accross to me (apart from the first time obviously).... i really cant do without my car, even though i only put about 20km a week on it if im lucky.

IMO police do need the ability to impound cars, i think it is a valid punishment, as long as there is a valid reason.

I'm not well versed in the hoon laws... but my experience with them has been a good one

[Matty 31]

15 month license loss for doing a burnout on a side street?

Okay.

i know this guy, and i know the said skid he was referring to. was time for the crime really

200 odd metres of skid on a road down near mclaren vale

[S32R]

There is a bad side to the hoon laws.....

think about this....

A person has a $50,000 car (i mean a beast import or old school)

there on there last warning or the car gets impounded and crushed.

so the next time the cops come to pull him over what do u think he would do?

yep that's right foot to the floor....

i have seen it happen and know people who would do that

i don't support wanker drivers but the hoon laws was a bad idea...

In my opinion the hoon laws a nothing more then a media stunt to keep the oldies happy

[SLED]

has there actually been any cars impounded that haven't been returned in 1 piece?

I don't recall any cars in Adelaide being crushed but I could be wrong.

[SkyHi_33]

I've had my tx3 impounded for 48hrs and been to court with a $400 fine on top for power sliding through wet park lands. Didn't really do any damage to the grass apart from flattening it, was during winter with shitloads of rain too so didn't do any damage to the ground at all.

The two young cops that initially saw me and another car doing it were having a laugh but due to 4 other cars showing up they had to do us for something.

So my experience with this is that it was a fair punishment and have learned my lesson from it.

Edited February 1, 2009 by tx3_90

[bezender]

thats it Marko, the use of the law seems to be legit.

heard a few stories about someones "mate" being done and reamed big time, but all the first hand accounts have been like mine with warnings, or like you with a smallish fine.

[Dohmar]

thats it Marko, the use of the law seems to be legit.

heard a few stories about someones "mate" being done and reamed big time, but all the first hand accounts have been like mine with warnings, or like you with a smallish fine.

but theres also the 16-22 year olds that whinge on for ages after getting defected (for a legit defect)

Fun stuff

-D

[Dori-Dori]

hoon laws imo are a waste of time

ie. me

i agree i have my fun, but only when there are no other dangers around but to my self and it is a risk i take, i have lost a car from it already and been in 3 MAJOR crashes, which most people know of 2 of them

but i got impunded for excessive noise (wastegate), no speeding, no burnouts, just excessive noise and sudden acceleration and yeh my fault i was annoyed, but they purposely got me annoyed and i reacted badly, i take responsibility..

got impounded for 7 days, and only just got a 800 fine and it took the judge 4 times, yes 4 before he could come to a conclusion.

the hoon laws are good, but would be better if they were not just focused on the import community...

i havent slowed done, anyways like i said i only mess around wen no one else is at danger.

but my point is......

if i can get away without losing my license, and i was cleary guilty and with my record, then anyone with a clean record could get away alot easier

and i dont want any smart ass comments like "u dont belong on this forum" or wat not coz honestly who on here HAS NOT sped, done a burnout, gone drifting or some other form of hooning???

[Dohmar]

but my point is......

if i can get away without losing my license, and i was cleary guilty and with my record, then anyone with a clean record could get away alot easier

and i dont want any smart ass comments like "u dont belong on this forum" or wat not coz honestly who on here HAS NOT sped, done a burnout, gone drifting or some other form of hooning???

You have a point. Nobody on here is innocent. Nobody. Everyone on here has fanged their car at one stage or another. Even people in Toyota Priuses get some hellafied snake action when theyre on a downhill run. But I digress.

I've broken the speed limits, on roads which have no signs, and there is not a policeman around for 200k. At the time I thought it was safe, but upon reflection, thinking about the trees that were whizzing past, I dont think it was a good idea at all. You screw up and hit a tree, you're dead. Gone. No debating. I dont do that anymore. Right now, Im saving to afford the bits n pieces to make my car worthy/reliable for track conditions in addition to the primary goal, which is the have the most fuel efficient street 32 GTR possible, while following all street legalities.

I do NOT recommend going fast outside a track environment. I know we all do, and I know there are safety tolerances, unique to each vehicle but when I think about all the carnage on roads, the cost involved to repair even minor dings, as well as the attention from police, I just don't think its worth it. Anything can go wrong. Think about your life.

When (and I DO mean when) we get a legit place to put the pedal to the metal, we will have safety, legality, qualified opponents based upon actual skill (ie not your avg bogan in an SS) and it'll be a more enjoyable, safe outlet for all.

And to address the main quote, about getting away ; You can run, but you can't hide. There are loads of cameras on the roads, and where there aren't cameras, there are angry drivers taking pictures of dick-headedness (if thats not a word I want it added to the dictionary). You can be a douche, but sooner or later, it will catch up with u.

-D

[Damo_R34]

I certainly hope for the sake of MLCrisis, that this thread doesn't turn into the backfiring thread, this thread serves a definite purpose, so keep the shit out of it.

[Madaz]

i agree Damo i would urge the mods to delete all posts including this one to purge this thread of rubbish that doesn't add to the debate that the thread creator was initiating

[SLED]

I concur with what Damo & Steve said.

This is a thread that serves a purpose so keep the spamming crap out of it or risk an official warning......and those kind of posts will certainly be deleted.