Injectors?

[Steve]

If you can get away with not removing the injectors, ie get them cleaned in the fuel rail - do it. Removing injectors has got knobs on it - cars that use ULP seem to get the injectors almost welded in place, they just dont want to budge.

[Skyrine-Dave]

Steve any suggestions to get the injectors out? like any solvents? or is it just alot of pulling and swearing ?

[omp]

Hey Mase you wouldn't believe this shit, mine is still off the road. Delay with Microtech and now they can't get it right, may not of been ecu...........not f'ing happy!

[Mase]

u poor bastard, thought i saw ur car the other night but obviously not. What u doin this weekend? Would love to come check it out. Im doing a onevia conversion next week probably with a mate's 180 down the road. Car will look untidy for a while tho unfortunately as i don't have enough cash for a full paint job.

Injectors: Well.... im kinda concerned that one of the injectors may be stuffed so i wanted to take them out to check over them and get them inspected as well as cleaned. Plug number 4 was very black today, and the others were fine so i think injector 4 needs replacing. The way the car is running it has become a definate that something must be sorted asap. Don't want to spend the money for a flush then find out it did nothing much. Can u give me any tips steve at all with removing the injectors. I want to get them flow tested also for when i start to run a bit more boost.

Thanks

Jayson

[Steve]

Removing injectors from the rail:

First, use liberal amounts of CRC or similar. You can use a couple of screwdrivers under the sides of the injectors to gently prise them up and allow the crc to penetrate.

Let them sit for 10-15 minutes, then carefully try and prise them up using screwdrivers - they do set like concrete, they just dont want to budge.

Bottom line is you just have to be patient and keep trying. I ended up cracking the plastic lug holes at the sides (where you put the screwdrivers), then I got really pissed off and just tapped the pintle with a hammer - that got the little buggers out - luckily they were being replaced with bigger ones so it didnt really matter. The injectors didnt end up getting damaged, except for the little plastic recesses that sit around the sides (where you put the screwdrivers).

Those littel plastic feet are pretty difficult to source (gradenko had some drama, might be worth asking him about that one).

Actually gradenko posted up his experiences in a thread about fitting 550cc Sard injectors.

Best way I would suggest is to get them flow tested in the rail, then if you have a problem with one injector, just have to remove the faulty one.

[Mase]

thanks heaps for that.

so just remove the fuel rail are you saying or just leave them in the car to be flow tested?

[Steve]

the injectors are secured into the fuel rail.

Just remove the plenum (big job), unclip the injectors - remove 3 bolts securing the fuel rail to the intake runners and disconnect the fuel lines. When the rail comes out, the injectors come out with them.

Take the rail with the injectors in place to get flow tested/cleanded.

[meggala]

here is a tutorial in japlish for removing the plenum and injectors on the rb 20.

cheers

meggala

http://www.meggala.com/removingintake.htm

[Mase]

Thanks meggala, it's a good challenge to read!!!

[Skyrine-Dave]

F*CK this... i cannot get to the nuts underneat the plenum... i am about to fly kick my car its shitting me that much!

how do you take the plenum off... but sockets just wont fit cuz the runners are too close to the bolts.. (underneath the plenum)

can u take out fuel rail without taking plenum off???

[Gradenko]

Originally posted by Steve

Those littel plastic feet are pretty difficult to source (gradenko had some drama, might be worth asking him about that one).

Actually gradenko posted up his experiences in a thread about fitting 550cc Sard injectors.

I not that I had a problem with pintles, I still have on going problem with those little ****ers. Why oh why aren't they replaceable parts? Wake up Denso!

Anyway, after fitting the newly cleaned injectors with custom pintles, the car ran great for about a week. After that I noticed, when starting from cold, it took slightly longer than usual for all 6 cylinders to fire up. Then I found if the engine was stopped and restarted when cold, it would run on 5 cylinders till the throttle was lightly pressed. At this stage I was concerned but didn't know what the cause was yet.

Then one day it started to go all wrong. When cold, instead for starting up after a few cranks, it would chug and chug and chug and finally only fire on 5. Rev it and it sounded like a scooby. Drive it and it fired on 6, except when idling. It ran ok (on all 6) after it warmed up. Bought new plugs to see if they'd make a difference. The next day it got even worse. Fired on 6 under load, but backfired off throttle and idled on 5 cylinders all the time.

When I pulled the plugs, the one for cylinder 1 was pitch black with carbon (not oil) while the rest looked healthy. I'd pretty much guessed by this stage that injector 1 wasn't sealing to the fuel rail (bloody pintle cap!) and leaking fuel continuously into cylinder 1.

Dropped it off at my mechanics with these instructions: "Check out whats going on, but I'm pretty sure its that injector. Remove fuel rail and give it to the injector cleaning guy", who the mechanic knows well. "Injector guy said he'd garantee the work as he pressure tested the rail previously, so ask him to fix the fault for free."

Got a phone call yesterday with a $500 bill (!) including cleaning, flowing and pressure testing of injectors (which were cleaned and flowed not 4wks ago). I'm going to try and sort it out tomorrow. Seems to have been miscommunication somewhere along the line.

Lesson? Try not to break the pintle caps when you remove them. In spite of all this, I still stand by removing injectors to clean them as the only way.

[JimX]

Are the pintles the plastic caps on the end of the injectors? Is there an easy way to tell if they are damaged or not?

[Gradenko]

Originally posted by Skyrine-Dave

can u take out fuel rail without taking plenum off???

Taking the plenum off is a big job. You'll need a socket wrench with a flex head as well as a collection of unijoints. Don't take the plenum off though, its possible to remove the rail while its still on. Just takes a lot of grunting and groaning.

JimX, the pintle caps are the 'claw' looking things at the fuel firing end of the injector. They get extremely brittle with age, so you'll easily be able to tell which are broken. A few of them will be missing claws, but I think they still function without them.

[rb20-calais]

guys i took my injectors out of my rb20 rgis morning, was so ****in easy.

1. Take off TB

2. Undo the 2 nuts that hold the fuel rail in

3. Undo a nut that holds a hose off the fuel rail to the plenum (near fuel reg).

4. Pull the rail away from the motor (slides out)

5. Wiggle injectors out (EASY took 2 mins for all 6!)

Also before these steps take the lil clips that hold the injectors in off and take the loom plugs off.

I didnt have to take the plenum off, I also noticed my o-rings were very soft. Was easy and painless but I am sure it will be a bit more frustrating putting them back in. All in all I reckon it is a 1hour job max!

Evan

BTW, I am a retard when it comes to mechanics

[Gradenko]

Originally posted by rb20-calais

5. Wiggle injectors out (EASY took 2 mins for all 6!)

Steve and I were talking about RB25 injectors which are side feed. Totally different kettle of fish to your top feed when it comes to ease of removal from fuel rail.

[rb20-calais]

oh shit, sorry ...

my bad.

Evan

[JimX]

Hmm, I can see now why the side feeds I got which look almost brand new have a few chunks of plastic out from where they have been levered out of the rail

[Gradenko]

Originally posted by Gradenko

Lesson? Try not to break the pintle caps when you remove them. In spite of all this, I still stand by removing injectors to clean them as the only way.

Seems I spoke too soon. Wasn't a problem with the new pintle caps at all. Dirt had dislodged from one of the injectors due to poor work cleaning from a previous workshop and jammed it open. All is running great now, so happy with what had to be done.

If you're pulling out injectors to get cleaned (highly reconmended), make sure you go to an injector cleaning shop that has dealt with RB injectors before. Its a bad sign when they say your rb25det injectors are the highest flowing injectors (even high than their machine can read) thats ever been through their shop .

[JimX]

Hehe, that reminds me of the time I went to Midas to get my discs machined and one of the guys there referred to them to another guy as "those really huge discs".