Bush Fires-narre North & Surrounding Areas

[West]

I asked myself the same question,

From memory, we've been warn at around a week in advance and how could there be so many lives has been lost but after watching how it started, how did it leap and how fast it was going, there is no way on earth anyone would have been prepare enough to fight this freak weather. It was way too fast and too lethal, an inferno.

I thought it was bad enough in my previous post at the start there were 31 lives lost but the figure that we have now is just too devastating, too horific. I deeply wish that this never was has happened.

Once again, RIP.

[blackrex]

Ash,

That comment was so far out of line that it wasn't even funny.

I lost a house in the fires on the weekend, I have spent the last two days on the phone almost constantly trying to find out if friends of mine, my wife's or especially my children were alive, as they lived in areas like Kinglake, Steels Creek, Dixon's Creek, Toolangi and Healesville. We still do not know if some of them are alive, or if they have homes to return to or anything.

I have also been awake for most of the time since the fires started to burn, making sure that my current home does not have the same thing happen to it as my other house.

I have been up in the burnt areas over the last few days, I have seen the dead bodies and spoken to people who survived the fires coming through, the fires that hit Kinglake crossed over 20k's of state forest (that the f**king Greens have prevented ANY preventative maintenance being done to since the last fires went through) in less than 15 minutes, there is no way that anyone could have expected that situation to occur.

Most of the people that have been killed in the cars where doing the right thing, by getting out of the danger zone, little did they know that the fires would be travelling much faster than they could drive.

If the local councils and state government had not gotten so obsessed with the green vote of late, I would say that the number of people who died in these fires would be much lower than it currently is, mainly because since the Green Wedge Zones have come into play, the ability to remove hazardous materials from more than 3 metres away from your house has required a planning permit, including reports from environmental engineers on the impact to surrounding wildlife, environmental impact statements, etc. Failing to do this results in fines and other punishments. These permits have also been very difficult to obtain, and usually require going to VCAT for resolution. Most people who live in the area do know the risks, but our hands have been tied by these laws, and it's making it more and more difficult to maintain a safe environment because of it.

At the same time, the local CFA stations have been warning the councils and governments of the dangerous levels of ground matter and scrub on public land (in some of the areas near me, it's built up to over 2~3 meters deep in the bottom of gullies), but nothing is done about it, so when we have days like Saturday, it becomes a tinderbox, that just needs some fruitcake with a match or cigarette to light it, and there's an instant wildfire.

If you want to have a go at anyone, blame the latte drinking wannabe greens in Albert Park and the like who keep on voting in green idiots to power.

[MP_R33]

I was talking about all this today @ lunch with a friend and it went something like this.

Loss of life, history, memories and so on and it is indeed a great tragedy. There is nothing to say its not bad...

However… where do we draw the line with all this media and people feeling sorry?

I mean look where these people live, up in mountain regions with dense scrub, leaf litter and so on… its fairly likely that its gonna catch fire.

Every 5-10 years there are big fires somewhere in the state with lesser ones in the years inbetween.

It's a part of nature.

No one can change the fact of nature/life that is a bushfire no matter how many times you 'pray to god' or whatever you believe in because you feel the need.

Hell even the ones that are deliberately started, who's to say they wouldn't have flared up on their own in the coming hot seasons 2-3 years from now? You don't know they wouldn't as much as the next person. You just don't know and you never will living in a risky area like that.

Fire is dangerous, as much as the catalysts for it.

These people choose to live there so they take the issues around it the same as anyone else.

People living near Essendon airport know the risks of planes dropping from the sky, and its happened a few times over the years.

People living near floor plains/rivers and so on, same deal. They get flooded out sometimes.

Even look @ the goobers as an example, the cyclone areas that are ravaged every few years yet these people move right back in 3 months later.

Yes I feel for the people, but to see people carrying on, the news flogging it for hours, days… I mean come on…

Its humans own stupidity that's led to this occuring, yet I don't think ive seen one person say that it was the peoples own fault for living there because at the end of the day, that's what it comes down too.

You choose to live somewhere that has very well known associated risks… be prepared to accept them.

People live around nature, nature does not live around you.

Thats a sickening attitude to have mate.

So you owning a GTS-R which is quite a rare and sought after car should be should be expecting no sympathy if it where to be stolen, torched or something arather is basically what your saying.

Hopefully it happens so you can feel what its like to lose something love and we will see how u feel then.

[2BNVS]

ash lets put ur family in there and see if u keep makin stupid comments like that u dumb f**k. useless f**kin prick on these forums u are

very sad day for those ppl, i do know a few ppl who in some way are affected, thankfully not by death...

[R31Nismoid]

That was fair out of line, what about all those poor ppl that were burnt alive in there cars trying to escape. Just think about if you lost everything including half or all of your family, then make a comment like that. Thats like saying of if you get your car stolen, robbed, bashed, raped or murdered...... cause you live in the city you shoulda known it was comming.

What about them... I said it was a tragedy, death is not something you wish for, but should i stop and cry randomly in the street when i don't even know anyone like other people?

The media would have you believe you need to feel bad, sorry and so on for as long as they think necessary.

Do you feel sorry every day? Cause you probably should. People dying from disease, natural disaster etc.

There was a lot of warning, even myself just walking around the CBD i was thinking on Wed last week we'd see a big fires again being so many tree's look as if its the middle of Autumn they have dropped that many dead leaves in the heat... And then Fri/Sat unfortunately that's what happened

As for the "who's lost what" over their life as opposed vs someone else... I've lost enough but i dont need to yabber on about it. I accept and move on.

Ensure read everything I've posted in the context its given, and not just the parts that you want to see.

Thats a sickening attitude to have mate.

So you owning a GTS-R which is quite a rare and sought after car should be should be expecting no sympathy if it where to be stolen, torched or something arather is basically what your saying.

Hopefully it happens so you can feel what its like to lose something love and we will see how u feel then.

If it gets stolen it gets stolen. I cant do a thing about it champ. That's how it is.

Stephen - I can see your points. I certainly hate the Green's and back burning is something thats required regardless of what they think.

I think people are forgetting that I do understand and appreciate that it is indeed a tragedy and unfortunate, hell ive offered my help any time too two friends who most likely lost properties up there too.

I've spoken to a lot of people about this since I posted and some agree, so do not.

Maybe its all over the media and people feel it more because its Victoria, i don't know.

Can everyone here having a go @ me say they felt the same for the Americans that died during Felix? 130+ dead, 150,000 people displaced? Its a risky area they knowingly live in.

If you answer no, then I'm very interested to know why. It's no different to what's happened here, in fact its worse.

I felt the same over that situation as i do about this, at least i am consistent

[Lauz_90]

ash lets put ur family in there and see if u keep makin stupid comments like that u dumb f**k. useless f**kin prick on these forums u are

I think the comment you just made was pretty stupid...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone has been affected in different ways whether people have lost loved ones or not.

[evade]

Do you feel sorry every day? Cause you probably should. People dying from disease, natural disaster etc.

Totally agree. There's people dying everyday in 3rd world countries, wars, etc all around the world..its only that when its in our own 'backyard' that everyone seems to feel sorry for those involved..how selfish is THAT?

[MP_R33]

I think the comment you just made was pretty stupid...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone has been affected in different ways whether people have lost loved ones or not.

his comment was his opinion on the situation. like u said everyones entitled to their own.

At the end of the day i rekon if you dont feel for everyone involved in the terrible ordeal its pretty inhumane, then again its my opinion im shaw most people will agree with me but then again some wont.

what can yo do

Edited February 9, 2009 by MP_R33

[Lauz_90]

his comment was his opinion on the situation. like u said everyones entitled to their own.

At the end of the day i rekon if you dont feel for everyone involved in the terrible ordeal its pretty inhumane, then again its my opinion im shaw most people will agree with me but then again some wont.

what can yo do

I meant the swearing & the name calling part, no need for that...

[R31Nismoid]

Nah ben is just upset about a recent incident in FI where he made himself look like the idiot he is... you know... since we are calling each other names and stuff which is really mature in a discussion thats evolving slowly as people are posting their thoughts

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

yeah i DO feel more for it casue it's in my own backyard, and no i dont think there is anything wrong with that

i dont entirely disagree with what ash said, just think it was an incorrect point for this thread esp at this time.

[Scottydoo]

Ash,

Your posts here are way out of line... ok its your opinion, but sometimes you should keep it to yourself for the time being.

You may know plenty about cars, but as far as i'm concerned you know sweet F A about common human decency. These fires are still raging, the death toll still rising, people are still missing, peoples lives are lying in a pile of smouldering ash and you have the nerve to say they deserved it because they should've known the risks!? Couldn't even wait for the flames to die down huh...

I don't care if you think its ok to say those things and think its ok because you put a disclaimer at the start of your post "I said it was a tragedy, death is not something you wish for" that doesnt make it ok. Show a little empathy for your fellow Australians FFS...

Just because you don't know people directly doesn't mean you shouldn't care. I'm not saying walk around crying all day, but show some respect. Is it selfish that we only 'seem' to care when its in our own backyard...maybe, but thats life.

[R31Nismoid]

his comment was his opinion on the situation. like u said everyones entitled to their own.

At the end of the day i rekon if you dont feel for everyone involved in the terrible ordeal its pretty inhumane, then again its my opinion im shaw most people will agree with me but then again some wont.

what can yo do

But can you humour me about the question i asked about the Americans who went through something worse

Can you honestly say, you felt the same or didn't you?

Simple question that requires an honest answer, add your thoughts on it too. That's the purpose of the discussion

[SS8_Gohan]

I can see where Ash is coming from, where as his timing may not have been brilliant, these points will inevitably arise in the coming days/weeks. Is Victoria the only state left that doesn't have mandatory evac's? Questions will be asked and then there's the Royal Commission...

I think it comes down to what people are accustomed too... given the fact we are a developed country, with some of the best living standards in the world, i think it's safe to say that no, we are not accustomed to what has happened. And as a result, we are suitably shocked and appalled at what has happened, and most feel very strongly the need to help where they can.

I don't know if playing the numbers game really helps either. 20,000 kids die every day in developing countries (UNICEF) but there's no way in hell something like that will keep constant mainstream media attention, unfortunately it's just too common place. And you could go on forever, with human stats, animal stats, habitat stats... but geographically, we are a slightly removed from it all and it's hard to relate sometime, where-as now, relating to what has happened has been acutely increased, and there in lies the very strong emotional responses but also reassuringly, the sense that when people feel as if they CAN help, they WILL, which is what's happening. If you take a place like Sudan, those feelings CAN be detached somewhat just due to the distances involved...

This is a discussion forum, so we should be able to discuss, but i would perhaps advise that there is a time and place for everything (and indeed there will definitely be a time to look back on this and ask what needs to be fixed) but perhaps until things have settled down somewhat, we should just support where we can and if we feel appropriate, discuss things further at a more appropriate time. Nothing will be achieved whilst emotions are still so raw, and whilst the danger has not even passed yet.

Condolences to those that have lost people or property.

[sinistaGTR]

What about them... I said it was a tragedy, death is not something you wish for, but should i stop and cry randomly in the street when i don't even know anyone like other people?

The media would have you believe you need to feel bad, sorry and so on for as long as they think necessary.

Do you feel sorry every day? Cause you probably should. People dying from disease, natural disaster etc.

There was a lot of warning, even myself just walking around the CBD i was thinking on Wed last week we'd see a big fires again being so many tree's look as if its the middle of Autumn they have dropped that many dead leaves in the heat... And then Fri/Sat unfortunately that's what happened

As for the "who's lost what" over their life as opposed vs someone else... I've lost enough but i dont need to yabber on about it. I accept and move on.

Ensure read everything I've posted in the context its given, and not just the parts that you want to see.

I did read what you wrote 3 or 4 times, and i still cant believe it.

Its comments like i havent seen anyone come forward and say it was my fault for living there... .Are you f**king kidding yourself.

I could quite easily go on with a lot more but i dont have time for ppl like you. Maybe you should get out of your little glass castle in the city and get out to somewhere that has been hit by the fires and give a helping hand maybe just maybe it would change your attitude, while your there just take a copy of your post and show it too a few ppl in these areas, i can guarantee you certainly wouldnt have the balls to do so. As for the media if you havent noticed ppl are still loosing there homes and lives as we speak.......its still going. It would have to be the most unaustralian attitude i have ever seen.

Scottydoo........ Totally agreed mate.

[Bass Junky]

OK Guys, lets chill.

Leave the debate for some other time.

Compassion is what is required here.

My Mum and her partner have been taking it in shifts to see if the fire comes up over the ridge in Thornton for the last two days so I'm personally engaged in this whole thing. Thankfully, we have been lucky, and Mum is ok and so is Alan her partner, but thousands of others are not so lucky.

Lets spare a thought for them now. Not argue here.

[adznight]

Guys can I please ask you ALL to calm down a little bit, everone is entitled to thier own opinoin but RESPECT the opinions of others and perhaps have a little thought before posting your comments. I don't want to have to close this thead but if you can't keep it on the RIGHT topic then I will.

[ylwgtr2]

very unaustralian comment.....a reflection on the way generations are heading....there is no way i would have heard that when i was a kid

[S13_DriftR]

Just heard on the news that the Death Toll has now risen to 173

[-FIGJAM-]

understand the point that Ash is trying to make, however, wrong time and wrong way to say it.

Mate we care and it hurts because its so close to home. When it happens to people over seas, as a human we start thinking it wont happen to us. So they live in area's that are danger to bush fires, i live in an area where i could be jumped, stabbed shot, hit by a car, fall down some stairs, etc etc, does that mean if it happens that i shouldn't be angry?

Do you realise that a few of these fires were lit by fire bugs? not like they are all natural fires that have started from lightning strikes, someone or some people deliberately started them. which makes it all the worse.

Think about that before you start saying that people should accept what happened and move on. Some people have lost everything, how can they move on? People have lost their families and friends, it isnt as easy as 1,2,3 its ok back on with it.

Think a bit more about what is happening and what you have said, please for your own sake