Good Metal Subs And Speakers

[PRIMRK]

Hey All,

Looking to put a new sound system into my R33 and want to know if there are any other metal heads out there that could suggest speakers and subs that can keep up with a double kick.

What I have planned out as far as speakers go is two sets of splits (front and back) as well as two 8" or 10" subs in the boot (smaller subs can apparently keep up a lot better).

Also will be deadening the boot and doors are there any other places that need deadening, have herd under the back seat is also a source of rattles but haven’t heard about the side quarters. Also how much deadening will I need to do the doors and boot and possibly the back seat?

Cheers

[Carbon 34]

Hey All,

Looking to put a new sound system into my R33 and want to know if there are any other metal heads out there that could suggest speakers and subs that can keep up with a double kick.

What I have planned out as far as speakers go is two sets of splits (front and back) as well as two 8" or 10" subs in the boot (smaller subs can apparently keep up a lot better).

Also will be deadening the boot and doors are there any other places that need deadening, have herd under the back seat is also a source of rattles but haven't heard about the side quarters. Also how much deadening will I need to do the doors and boot and possibly the back seat?

Cheers

Metal head here..lol

only a really good 8 will take a metal pounding, something like a Digital Design or similar. in a proper designed box. but only the best will have enough output for you if you like it LOUD!!!

one solution for you might be a single 10" in a single reflex box. it hits hard and takes a beating without destroying the sub.

I know what your after for bass. and a vented box or generic box will be too loose for your likings. but a sealed box with the right size for the drive will hit hard. a single reflex box will hit even harder with higher output, like being in front of the 18" in the bass cabinet at a concert.

understand its more the box design then the sub that decides the double kick drum feel/sound, hell even a cheapo sub in good box sounds unreal.

a 1000 sub in a generic box will sound lame. you also need a capacitor and amp with high dampening factor to sound decent. the ability to hit over and over without voltage sag or distortion. and of course a decent deck to provide a high voltage signal to the amp.

I pretty much gutted my R34 to sound deaden it. some spray on tar based, some rolls of felted rubber glued in place, some dynomat. and some spray foam to fill the empty spots covered in fiberglass and tar undercoating. and it still needs more , in the roof , sunroof model rattles bad even with no bass

makes a big difference to sound, and the stupid rattle from bass.

for my car I have Digital design Alpines splits from japan, not my first choice but they came in the car on import. some focal ,morel, vifa softdome tweeters are better, mids too. but costly and must be installed properly . the tweeters are killer and can be rebuilt if you fry them,, they have withstood nearly 400 watts each with no problems at all, and peak of 1000 watts before. but its all about how much you want to spend because that routes sounds unreal but cost a lot to install them for best output. and all custom since the baskets are deep and tweeters are 4" models but can be trimmed down a lot to fit or behind cloth door panels.

stay far away from 6x9 speakers if you want high output clean sound without distortion,. the cones break up at high volume . a good seperate 6" is far better

hope that gives you some insight ?

[Jack88]

in my opinion 8"s are basically a waste of time.The only 8 that i would recoment is the Digital Designs DD1508 even still i wouldnt use it as a sub in any application.

A well designed ported enclosure will give you plenty of tight bass. Its all in the tuning and design

Sealed enclosures will give you a fairly flat frequency response but will need more power over ported or a band pass enclosure to really get going and will be down on output compaired to the others i mentiond.

Sorry troy but i disagree about the capacitor statement, Iv done the tests and proven it every time, the only time caps would come into there own is when you have a very large value unit so something along the lines of 20 fared and at this point the dollar/value aspect really becomes pointless. The money you would spend on a cap is far better spent on upgrading your earths,battery etc.

However the only time caps have any real effect is when used with amps runing speakers as they help filter out AC ripple,and seems subs will only produce low frequencys you will not be able to hear a difference when used with an amp running a sub.

Jack

[Carbon 34]

in my opinion 8"s are basically a waste of time.The only 8 that i would recoment is the Digital Designs DD1508 even still i wouldnt use it as a sub in any application.

Gee you have never heard a good 8" system then , Orion 8 XTR's won lots or sound quality/pressure contests with two 8's in a 7th order band pass box with 25 watt per channel amp on it.. yes 25 watts per channel ,Orion 225 HCCA model!!!

but your right most installers dont know how to make 8" woofers sing. a 10 is easier and cheaper, the cone area of two 8" is similar to a 15" woofer with less cone distortion????

A well designed ported enclosure will give you plenty of tight bass. Its all in the tuning and design

Sealed enclosures will give you a fairly flat frequency response but will need more power over ported or a band pass enclosure to really get going and will be down on output compaired to the others i mentiond.

My first choice of boxes for metal is a single reflex, 5th order bandpass box, loud, hits like a jackhammer unleashed

1 side is ported 1 is sealed , being sealed on 1 side it keeps the woofer safer if you drive it hard

Sorry troy but i disagree about the capacitor statement, Iv done the tests and proven it every time, the only time caps would come into there own is when you have a very large value unit so something along the lines of 20 fared and at this point the dollar/value aspect really becomes pointless. The money you would spend on a cap is far better spent on upgrading your earths,battery etc.

Hmm Jack, I have a degree in Advanced Electronic Engineering and more then 20 years in Car, Home Audio with countless awards and certificates If I didnt know it I wouldnt answer the forum question????,, and yes they do make a difference, most amps only come with limited capacitor values most have less then .05 farad internal, which leads to the voltage rails on the transistors to sag ,sine wave clipping, and the dampening factor( the ability to play music loud and recover after each beat) even a 1-5 farad cap is enough to help. and cheap to find too used for under a 100 bucks off ebay. the 20-50 farads are better but overkill unless you want serious serious power output with severe power output

1 FARAD is good for 1000watts output

and yes it does reduce the a/c ripple coming from the alternator/battery

of course amp class can make a diffrence too, class A, B, D, E, ETC.

However the only time caps have any real effect is when used with amps runing speakers as they help filter out AC ripple,and seems subs will only produce low frequencys you will not be able to hear a difference when used with an amp running a sub.

Caps dont change the sound in this case?, but the speed of the current available to the amps(keep the woofer under control and free of distortion if placed in a proper box ). batteries are storage devices with slow transient output, as voltage regulators can't keep up with demands

A Capacitor will supply the power to the amps a lot faster then the battery, if you dont believe me, try a power amp that draws a fair bit, then flip on the headlights, in a bass track without a capacitor, the lights will dim on each note. with a proper value cap they wont or a minimal amount. and of course the power and ground wires are also important too, factory wiring is cheap and not designed to pull 1000watts off it..

Troy, Hey Jack, dont worry mate if things go right we can sit and discuss this more in person...lol

jack

[Carbon 34]

Digital designs sound off car , using 8" woofers in tubes

Edited February 19, 2009 by sapphiregraphics

[Vik]

If only i had the money to get a DD install .. lols.

MRXTCZ

[Jack88]

digital designs gear isnt very expensive.especially there entry level gear.

EDIT: Troy just relised there was a post in that quote haha.

I have herd a few good 8's in my time but of course alot of planing went into box design and alot of skill was needed to construct. For the average person its just too complicated to acheive a good sound with an 8.

The 2 8's over a 12 or 15 theory.....yes there would probly be slightly less cone break up and distortion but that would be very minimal in the 10 any way.

I agree with the bandpass box comment.Excelent way to get the most out of the power you have available but for the higher order enclosures the average person has buklys chance of constructing and getting the tune right.

I think were going to have to agree to disagree about the capacitor lol. Im not saying they cant have any benifit at all but the big 3 must be taken care of first.They have there applications but when suggesting a cap to fix headlight dimming and other voltage drop problems when the other aspects of the car elec system havnt been seen to first,such as the battery to chassis ground its really just a bandaid fix to a much bigger problem.

Now in a car thats already had these upgrades done then sure you will probly find an improvement out of adding a cap to the system.

About my comment about a cap helping to filter out AC ripple, i ment that it would help the transient voltages in the amp and help keep them at a more consistant level and hence reducing the amount of distortion the amp sends to the speakers,how ever minimal it might have been in the first place but still you can never be too safe lol.

Sure thing troy id love to have a sitdown and a good chat about this general subject! its about time someone understands what the hell im on about lol,i normally just get blank looks in return

Jack

Edited February 23, 2009 by Jack88

[Kerr34]

i know a mate of mine that has 2 focal subs running and they are quick enough to keep up with double kick in music such as a7x and bullet 4 my valentine etc. just make sure u invest in a good enclosed sub box