Bad Tuner

[sly32]

Hey guys,

My mate got his car tuned at the start of the week, is a sr20 180sx, we installed poncams into it with a greddy forward facing plenum and 550cc injector with power fc (non afm model) d-jetro?

so he got the car back and they said they made 300hp on 11psi boost, he said but i wanted to run 16psi and told you to tune it for that, they then said that they couldnt tune it because it was pinging at higher boost, so my other mate called then and asked why was it pinging? they said they didnt know, my mate was then like well the car is on a dyno, you have it hooked up so you can find where problems are but the fuel system is brand new and can easy support this power, they then said maybe it was because of the adjustable cam gears, because you need to dial them in even though we have set both sides on 0 degrees, (turbo is only a T28 Disco potato)

so today i saw the dyno sheet, and holy crap. ive never seen a dyno sheet like it, i told him to take it somewhere else because i dont know what they have done, they also tuned it and told him his turbo manifold gasket is leaking bad,

anyways ive uploaded dyno sheets, have a look, i know people hate it when tuners are badged, but this doesnt seem right 1 bit,. obviously let me knw if this is right but pretty sure lines are ment to be curved and full boost by 3500,

[R31Nismoid]

Could be a myriad of issues.

Boost control is obviously one of them.

AFR's you cant see on that graph so there is a hidden story there too.

Just because it has new injectors doesn't really mean a thing

Pump could be running out of flow/pressure/voltage. Blocked fuel filter perhaps

So before you say its a bad tune, how about the full story?

My mates mate stories generally have half the story.

[sly32]

boost controller is a profec b, its fine, the car ran way better than what it did with the tune, we have put a brand new fuel pump in there, fuel pressure reg is a after market 1,

they didnt give us a print out of the afr, if it had bad voltage to fuel pump then why would they blame cams for the problems? also,

i have never seen a t28 (350hp turb) make 310hp on a 11psi boost, specially when the car is almost stock,

we will take it to another tuner that we trust as we have used before and see what he says,

[R31Nismoid]

Well have a look @ the graph... CLEARLY boost control is not fine mate.

If you cant see that from the graph then I'm at a loss...

Are you sure the FPR is set right?

I could sit here and type up potential problems all night, without seeing the car its impossible to tell regardless of what you say because there might be something missed that needs to be rechecked.

And just because a part is brand new, doesn't always mean it works furthermore.

Its trial/error when cars are an issue.

They clearly have not worked on the car, you did all the work with your mate.

So the workshop has no idea and must go through each item one by one which takes DAYS. Not a few hours... and then owner crack the sad's @ the end bill.

So keep checking/working through it, and RECHECK everything.

[sly32]

Well have a look @ the graph... CLEARLY boost control is not fine mate.

If you cant see that from the graph then I'm at a loss...

Are you sure the FPR is set right?

I could sit here and type up potential problems all night, without seeing the car its impossible to tell regardless of what you say because there might be something missed that needs to be rechecked.

And just because a part is brand new, doesn't always mean it works furthermore.

Its trial/error when cars are an issue.

They clearly have not worked on the car, you did all the work with your mate.

So the workshop has no idea and must go through each item one by one which takes DAYS. Not a few hours... and then owner crack the sad's @ the end bill.

So keep checking/working through it, and RECHECK everything.

i can see where your coming from, but i still stand by what i think, i guess the car isnt going to get driven much until it gets taken to another tuner, i guess if it comes back witht he same results then im in the wrong.

either way i will post up what the end result is after it gets tuned again, just some things dont line up which makes me worried,

[EFI Performance]

Be interesting to know the fuel flow on this car???????

Flow Vs pressure, you say aftermarket reg?? hope its not a ebay reg and is it 1.1 ratio???

Edited February 14, 2009 by EFI Performance

[sly32]

um cant fully remember, from memory it was a malasappi (if thats correct), but dont fully remember, i just dont know why the car would run fine before and not now, it pops a bit at idle now to, and the power figure for that boost just sounds completely wrong, i will try and find out from my mate in the next day or so,

JV

[MrStabby]

ok i'm a noob, but its a bit hard to put crap on the tuner at this stage, after all you cant polish a turd.

The car appears to have serious problems, ie

- "the manifold gasket is leaking badly" (is he right or do you dispute this?)

- the boost response is shocking

Perhaps the manifold is leaking so badly that the turbo cant spool properly, and the boost controller has nothing to work with? AFAIK you cant tune out a leaking manifold.... Here's what working boost control looks like;

[Al]

I agree with Ash, he definitely has a boost control issue. Could be a weak/soft actuator or a leak, etc.

So many variables that can cause a setup to go wrong. If the tuner hasn't built the setup, then it can take days to sort out; as Ash also mentioned. Was your mate willing to pay the tuner/mechanic for eg: 20+hrs labour @ $75/hr, to sort out someone elses mess?

Could also be an exhaust flow issue and a whole heap of other possibilities.

This is why my mechanic is my tuner and why i purchased an ecu that my mechanic was comfortable tuning.

Hope your mate sorts it out quickly and at little expense; good luck

PS: If you mate had an upgraded fuel pump and injectors, why buy/change the fpr?

[Al]

MrKotter: That is the most perfect boost curve i have ever seen in my life

[Cjmartz2k]

Really looks like a boost leak to me. Also, that could explain your knocking problem. If the turbo is going balls to the wall trying to make boost, but it's only showing 11psi, it's just shoving hot air with out the volume down the engines mouth. Think of what your turbo could make MAX boost if you weren't worried about blowing it or the engine up. Then cut a hole in the intercooler piping and make it max at 11psi. Same effect. Not saying it's the problem, but a boost leak check is cheap and easy.

[lachlanw]

and told him his turbo manifold gasket is leaking bad, + shocking boost response . nuff said

[SLAPS]

they also tuned it and told him his turbo manifold gasket is leaking bad,

A little common sense would tell one that a leaking manifold gasket is going to create boost control problems.

[EFI Performance]

He properly wanted more info from the dyno tuner though, otherwise he wouldnt be on here asking for advice...

[R31Nismoid]

MrKotter: That is the most perfect boost curve i have ever seen in my life

Small stock turbos, makes things super easy as they ramp up nice and fast

Very tidy line indeed

[sly32]

yeah i think if had just of said its got a boost control problem, then it would have been better than blaming cams, to me thats hiding something, although he didnt mention anything about a boost control problem, he just mentioned a pinging problem with higher boost? so then again thats another reason, plus i dont understand, before we added everything etc... it would hit high boost at the normal spot and hold,

also if you look at the end of that dyno sheet, once it gets to the right boost, it holds perfect, wouldnt this be a bit more uneven specially because at a higher boost it would leak more from pressure so it would be harder to control?

[GTS-t VSPEC]

yeah i think if had just of said its got a boost control problem, then it would have been better than blaming cams, to me thats hiding something, although he didnt mention anything about a boost control problem, he just mentioned a pinging problem with higher boost? so then again thats another reason, plus i dont understand, before we added everything etc... it would hit high boost at the normal spot and hold,

also if you look at the end of that dyno sheet, once it gets to the right boost, it holds perfect, wouldnt this be a bit more uneven specially because at a higher boost it would leak more from pressure so it would be harder to control?

Simple answer is, if your mates not happy with it, then take it elsewhere, but as has been pointed out, there are some obvious issues highlighted from the dyno graph.

The guys here can only tell you there opinions from one dyno graph, there are so many factors that are not known that you can't pinpoint whether it's the car or the tuner.

[gfunkk]

we replaced the gasket that was leaking today, the thing was broken in 2 pieces

its still leaking though so we have to take it off and sand surfaces + use exhaust cement

the fact that they tuned the car while it had a leak was just retarded

[murrayis]

we replaced the gasket that was leaking today, the thing was broken in 2 pieces

its still leaking though so we have to take it off and sand surfaces + use exhaust cement

the fact that they tuned the car while it had a leak was just retarded

Just get the exchaust manifold machined! exhaust putty etc. wont last too long in there.

Edited February 15, 2009 by murrayis

[gfunkk]

you mean we should take out the studs and get the surface flatterned?