Meeting With Sapol

[Nene260RS]

Ok, firstly, apologies for not being able to jump on sooner and fill you in. Secondly i'd like to thank Roo for tagging along with myself and Ben. There were a couple more offers of people willing to come along but i though 3 would plenty seeing as there were only 2 officers present at the meeting.

Thirdly... i apologize for the novel sized post... but there is much to tell!!... Now .. where the hell do i start...

The meeting went for around 45 minutes.. First thing on the agenda ( for me at least ) was to find out what Neil's expectations of this "relationship" would be.

*Neil would like to be notified about cruises that are organised. A police presence WILL NOT be shown at every cruise. The reason they would like to be notified is so the police in the areas we are cruising through Know who we are, and there fore by knowing we are in good graces with sapol, it will be less likely we are randomly "picked on". For larger cruises (eg, charity cruises) Neil has advised that with this notice, he has the ability to assist in keeping the group together, by way of having police direct traffic to stop traffic on particular tricky corners, intersections and traffic lights.

Neil understands that there are "hoons" and there are "motoring enthusiasts". And he is aware that sometimes people can ruin things for others. We don't want to be cruising with people who are idiots on the roads, we want ourselves and our cars kept safe.. In turn, if there is someone acting inappropriately and endangering the people around them, then Neil is more then happy to assist by coming out and telling serial trouble makers to move the hell on. This can include members of other clubs, or just random cars who decide to tag along and show off.

* Defects : Minor defects can be dealt with a written warning. However, Major defects will be dealt with on the spot. Major Defects include BOV'S, turbo timers, and Gauges (only if they are mounted in the wrong position) Gauges that are positioned on the A pillar are considered a major safety risk, due to countless times where police have had to assist at an accident scene where these gauges are what have caused very bad head / facial injuries. Non compliant steering wheels are also a major defect as they are also seen as a major safety risk when accidents occur.

*Cars that are modified correctly by reputable workshops, using quality products and particularly ones with engineering certificates are NOT what they are looking to defect. They will however, defect cars that have been modified with cheap products, and that are incorrectly installed by people who do not know exactly what they are doing, as ofcourse, this compromises safety.

*What are police doing to prevent "Car enthusiast" being labeled as hoons, and ALL high performance cars being picked on, due to lack of knowledge from the police force?: Police are undergoing training to specifically identify what is and isn't defectable. A proposal has been put forward to create a "unit" specifically trained in modified cars.

*Neil went on to say that there is NO car club in south Australia with a reputable name. However, by us taking these steps to build a relationship with SAPOL, it will enable us to become known as a respectable car enthusiasts car club in the south Australian community. Therefore, with the support of SAPOL, petitioning to re - open a race track in South Aus will become very realistic.

Guys, its already a well known fact that Neil reads these forums, as he openly spoke about yesterday. What are peoples thought about having Neil set up an SAU account, So that members have a direct point of call, when there are questions about Mods ect?

* Neil would like to show his Support to The Victorian bush fire victims, aswell as beginning to get to know some of our responsible club members... So it was discussed that Neil may Represent SAPOL at the Bushfire Gala hosted by SAU.

I think i have covered everything, if I've missed something roo... feel free to jump in

Please keep this thread full of constructive, and useful opinions. Any kind of derogatory comments will be deleted by moderators.

Thanks for reading, Nene

[heslo]

Just a warning to all, please leave any out of line comments out of this thread.

Thank you

[rad100]

have to say congrats on the effort..

i think both you and neil have now got an understanding on were both parties stand.

also have to thank neil for giving sau the time to answer our Q's.

lets c how it goes from here now? maybe try out a cruise?

[Nene260RS]

That's what i was thinking Adrian, do it for late march after all the bush fire stuff calms down a bit...

[rad100]

it guess neil being at the bushfire dinner would be good to build a "friendship"

fingers crossed ey?

thats if we dont get defected on the way out hehe..

[rhys5169]

nice work on following it through nene, all reads well i just hope it plays out like he has said

[Madaz]

Thanks heaps Nene Ben and Roo also thanks to Neil for taking time to meet with us

[Dohmar]

nice work on following it through nene, all reads well i just hope it plays out like he has said

Great work Nene, I'm hoping it all works out for the best. Police assistance to direct traffic is a huge thing for them to offer, would be great (considering it usually costs $2000-4000 for police escorts)

-D

[tryandcatchme]

good on you guys for attending the meeting,sounds like it went as well as could go. It was better to try than to not. By just dealing with the negative vibes the hoons give us and our cars,this may be one step forward rather than any steps back. Any action sapol are willing to try in distinquishing us enthusiasts from the rest has to be a positive step, as long as a trust can be determined along the way

[Tangles]

right on!

that all sounds fantastic, and of course IMHO Neil should feel free to have a recognisable account.

excellent committment and work-ethic from all involved- congratulations!

sounds really great reading it thru again & again. so constructive!

* going to move my boost guage - no way my head can hit that being so tall, but I'll comply other than that.... wd!

[Dohmar]

* Defects : Minor defects can be dealt with a written warning. However, Major defects will be dealt with on the spot. Major Defects include BOV'S, turbo timers, and Gauges (only if they are mounted in the wrong position) Gauges that are positioned on the A pillar are considered a major safety risk, due to countless times where police have had to assist at an accident scene where these gauges are what have caused very bad head / facial injuries. Non compliant steering wheels are also a major defect as they are also seen as a major safety risk when accidents occur.

Neil if you're reading this thread, can you please post us a known list of Major and Minor defects, or point us towards the official current guidelines? I think it'd be in everyones interest to know what they need to get fixed.

Cheers

-D

EDIT - A locked Wiki would be a really good format to outlay the status of particular modifications and the certifications required, and higher definitions - aka gauge location. I know this is a big thing and wont happen overnight but I think it'd be great to have. Maybe christian can put a wiki on the server for us to use for a fee...

Edited February 15, 2009 by Dohmar

[DamageInc]

I'd be happy for neil to make an account as it would make clarifying what mods are acceptable a he'll of slot easier.

I'm glad this meeting has had a positive outcome.

More from me when I return from victoria later tonight

Cheers.

Mitch

[BillyE]

Goodluck guys, we started a relationship up with HT and SAPOL late last year, was great for three cruises, then the defects came. I hope the result is better for you guys and the import community. Best thing to do, is not have illegal mods.

[skyhighR33]

big congrats nene, ben and roo, your efforts have gone a long way to insure sau will become a better car enthusiest club then a bunch of hoons in imports(as we are mostly looked at as). i would like to see how this pans out, but congrats again, and i do hope neill sets an account up so we can ask defect questions and ask him about stuff.

cheers... michael

[mid life crisis]

first up kudo's to all involved including sapol . if we want too get rid of the hoon perception maybe it could start right here with mods removing post that relate too hoon driving such as for example http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Sm...ng-t256967.html . post like these dont really help our cause .

i have no probs with neil having a account here if it all helps . the more police that know whats defectable and whats not is a good thing if it stops cars getting defects for fmic and pod filters that regancy have no probs with . looks like i have too remove my boost gauge but i hope that every car import or not that mounts a gps unit on the a piller has too do the same :-) ..all in all it seems a good result i dont think any of us that has a defect ie high mount turbo ect ect really had any complaints about getting defected if we know its illeagel .

its the getting pulled over for no reason than it;s a skyline with the old tired excuse just doing a lincese check routine when your the only car target out of a bunch that goes past .

all in all like i said a good result and lets hope goodwill from both sides of the fence prevails

cheers dean

[RubyRS4]

Right ... been working on my house extension and Stagea (turbo fix) today ... got time now to give feedback ...

Just to clarify on a few things ...

We went into this meeting not asking for immunity or favours from the police. They have a job to do and we respect that. Likewise the police respect that hoons have damaged the image of import drivers. We went into this meeting to open up some recognition that import owners are also enthusiasts, and not just hoons. It was agreed that there was a need for more education on the relationship between car enthusiasts and SAPOL. The police genuinely want to work with us, not against us. You can chose to believe that or not ... your choice. But it is a give and take relationship. They want to be easy with us, as long as we be more responsible for our cars and driving manner. Their biggest concern is safety ... not making our lives hell.

As an example, I informed Neil that most owners will modify their cars regardless ... but its how the cars are modded that separates the hoons from the enthusiasts. Neil says they really have no problems with minor mods as long as they are not Super Cheap rubbish you are putting on your car. For example, I told Neil that when I adjust my ride height, I get it wheel aligned every time, and carry that invoice in my car. And I sure as hell don't do it by chopping springs, or fitting suspension not designed for my car. Neil advises that they'd like to see minor mods being done safely. Carrying my little folder of workshop invoices is an indication that I take my mods seriously and safely. Another example is that they have no problem with pod filters ultimately as long as they are 'fixed' by a bracket and not loose with the AFM. These are examples of such minor mods.

Major mods include surge tanks and swirl pots etc (fuel being within the main chassis of the car), cars so low they cannot clear speed humps (100mm rule), non-engineered turbo upgrades ... you know how it goes guys. Make a big mod to your car and you risk being busted. Have enough documentation (workshop invoice/engineers certificate) to prove its not a Super Cheap or Ebay special and you'll look more responsible and you'll be treated fairly.

It was agreed minor mods could be dealt with as a caution on the spot (which you will be expected to remedy if advised) or by minor inspection at a local cop shop. Major defects will continue to attract a Regency inspection. Now don't get your hopes up on the minor defect issue, as Nene said, cops are being trained to deal with defects more accurately and fairly, but this will take time. The wheels are turning but there is no instant fix. As mentioned by Nene, the police are aware of the inconsistencies with defect standards and are circulating notices and standards within the dept to eliminate the guesswork out of defects and bring in a fairer system. This works for and against us. If you're legit and honest with safe mods, you'll be treated fairly ... but they're getting better trained and know what to look for, so bullshitting them or hiding blatantly dangerous mods will not win you any favours.

As far as SAU's rep goes ... Neil has expressed his pleasure that we sat down to meet with him. This shows that we want to be taken seriously and most of us (but not all) are genuine enthusiasts. He showed disappointment that SAU cruises had died down as they were some of the better organised and conducted cruises, and they rarely ever heard any complaints. They are aware of the handful of members that ruin it for us all, and do not class SAU as a whole as trouble makers. Neil has been advised that SAU has two new mods and standards with regards to posting comments have been raised. We're cleaning up this one horse town.

As mentioned earlier, Neil has been invited to join up as an SAU member to be asked responsible questions about modifications, defects and cruises. His word will not be the be all end all and won't be your free ticket out of a defect tho; he will hopefully be offering advice based on the best and honest info you give him. If you have,say, a FMIC conversion and need to query if its legal, he may just point out (don't quote me on this) use the existing piping from the SMIC to the FMIC if possible, or if a return pipe needs to come from the driver's side of the engine bay, then have a workshop do your plumbing ... just to show the minor mod was done safely. If you mod is more than minor, he may recommend an engineer's certificate. If its a major mod, then he will advise if an eng cert is suitable, or if the mod won't be considered legal at all (major defect). The choice then is up to you ... but at least this way there is no doubts about where you stand and ignorance will not benefit you. It won't be a defect shopping list for him, but neither will it be a get out of jail free card for you. This whole meeting and process is about give and take, and compromising. Still beats the shit out of driving around like an outlaw in fear of police.

I believe this also helps support a more favourable relationship between the various workshops and SAPOL. The police would be far more comfortable knowing a workshop has assisted in the modifications and is less likely to be deemed unsafe. Wouldn't we all like to see our money going to workshops more than on Regency inspections?

Edited February 15, 2009 by RubyRS4

[Luke_ENR34]

wow, awesome work guys and im happy with what im reading. My car will be off to the engineers after i fit abit more stuff to it. Big thanks to Nene, Ben and roo for there hard work.

[CRoNic...]

* Defects : Minor defects can be dealt with a written warning. However, Major defects will be dealt with on the spot. Major Defects include BOV'S, turbo timers, and Gauges (only if they are mounted in the wrong position) Gauges that are positioned on the A pillar are considered a major safety risk, due to countless times where police have had to assist at an accident scene where these gauges are what have caused very bad head / facial injuries. Non compliant steering wheels are also a major defect as they are also seen as a major safety risk when accidents occur.

Non-compliant steering wheels (aka 90% of Autobahn steering wheels) is something I agree on. Most of them are made from poor materials, get destroyed on impact, etc. But... A pillar gauges?! It's a Regency thing, too, but gee... where did they pull this law from? If you're going to crash, your head will hit the steering wheel in most cases... not a small gauge tucked into a corner. But, we'll have to accept that. Nothing against Neil personally, just curious about that rule.

*Cars that are modified correctly by reputable workshops, using quality products and particularly ones with engineering certificates are NOT what they are looking to defect. They will however, defect cars that have been modified with cheap products, and that are incorrectly installed by people who do not know exactly what they are doing, as ofcourse, this compromises safety.

Excellent point here. People love 'backyard modifications' with holes being drilled here and there to fit a new CAI pipe, etc. But at the end of the day, some of these mods can be dangerous!

All in all, sounds like the meeting went really well! Well done Neil and SAPOL for taking the time and resources to have a meeting with SAU. It's another step forward for this club!

Edit: Ruby, excellent post!

Edited February 15, 2009 by CRoNic...

[Howie]

Sounds like a pretty positive outcome for all. Top work everyone.

[Nene260RS]

Thanks Guys... your positive feedback and outlook on this has made me a happy little vegemite!! All the hard work feels like now it has a positive purpose.

Thanks Roo... i didn't think i missed out that much!! lol