Meeting With Sapol

[JMW]

Excellent work guys! Its great that you took time out of your own day to do something which may benefit so many people.

Having Neil as a forum member is an excellent idea, just another way to show him we're not out there setting up illegal street races and the such.

Excellent work again guys

[Colliefield]

Hey all,

I just wanted to say that the meeting with Neil was a great effort and out come. Being a new member of SAU i was worried about hoons on cruises and was worried about coming along knowing this info now i'm not so concerned.

Thnx

[Dori-Dori]

Hey all,

I just wanted to say that the meeting with Neil was a great effort and out come. Being a new member of SAU i was worried about hoons on cruises and was worried about coming along knowing this info now i'm not so concerned.

Thnx

the hoons never seem to hang around coz they get bored too easy

its only the hills that keep them interested

and as long as you dont stuff around no one will have a problem

[theminuz]

i too am all for Niel having an account, but i for see a bunch of question after questions from people not bothering to read a little and Niel being snowed under

just a suggestion, perhaps a mod could monitor pm's directed to niel, discarding poorly intended subjects or bs. also suggest that he be allocated a bit more pm space because i can see him recieving a few.

the hoons never seem to hang around coz they get bored too easy

its only the hills that keep them interested

and as long as you dont stuff around no one will have a problem

since when does said "hills" driving mean your a hoon, i personally extremely love our beutifull hills, i cant think of a better way to spend an afternoon. i am not a hoon!!

end rant

[Colliefield]

the hoons never seem to hang around coz they get bored too easy

its only the hills that keep them interested

and as long as you dont stuff around no one will have a problem

I'm no by any means here to stuff around, i love my 32 and stag i would never do anything to harm either.

[D_Stirls]

I would like to see documentation when there is a claim that an item is defectable. It's all well and good to claim that an item or a modification is a defect, but without documentation it is just that a claim. Too often people have been "defected" for "illegal" modifications that have no mention in either the ADR's or the state based laws. In the past it has been a case of "what the police say, goes", but this has to end; as most (not all) of them wouldn't know the first thing about cars. If this doesn't change then going to court might be a better option than producing your car to regency for unjust defects, as it will force changes.

So so far we need to see documentation for;

BOV's, Turbo Timers, Placement of aftermarket items in the cock pit of the vehicle (Gauges, GPS's, Taxi Computers).

Also the documentation on steering wheels as I have a wheel (MoMo) with an ADR compliance sticker but according to the State based laws it's too small (how can the state laws contradict the Australian Design Rules; is someone in this state smarter than the engineers that created the ADR's )

you started the topic by saying

The meeting went for around 45 minutes.. First thing on the agenda ( for me at least ) was to find out what Neil's expectations of this "relationship" would be.

And then the list goes on where we have been dictated terms. So I have to ask is this a two way "relationship" or is a servant and master relationship (where we are the servant) because at the moment I have my doubts.

Edited February 15, 2009 by D_Stirls

[SLAPS]

I challenge ANY workshop in Adelaide to do as good a quality work as what I have done on my car, and for the record I have no certificate saying I can do what I do. I have however grow up around the Dirt circuit racing scene and have built a number of purpose built dirt circuit open wheelers from scratch. Any the aftermarket parts have been made on a CNC machine centre and are a lot more accurate and better quality that anything seen in the automotive stores these days.

Completely agree... I have done ALL the work on mine apart from tuning. The bits that required specialised welding I had an engineering shop do.

However... This is off track from what Ruby was stating.

You can't disagree there's a hell of a lot of dodgy p-plater mods out there. I've seen a lot in my time when helping out people here and there.

--

Regardless my one and only concern for you lot is will random hood popping still occur even if good behavior is displayed.

Edited February 15, 2009 by TheRogue

[joeleo87]

i have always been suss of the pillar gauges and how they are different to some1 GPS system or like a taxis job screen???

it would seem a GPS system would distract you alot more then a glance of your water temp.

debatable indeed.

[TALBO]

Good initiative by all involved, can only be a good thing for drivers of imports.

I'm not sure sure though that I understand this fear of 'random hood popping'......

[RubyRS4]

Completely agree... I have done ALL the work on mine apart from tuning. The bits that required specialised welding I had an engineering shop do.

However... This is off track from what Ruby was stating.

You can't disagree there's a hell of a lot of dodgy p-plater mods out there. I've seen a lot in my time when helping out people here and there.

Its unfair for us to expect the police to believe you've done your mods safely and correctly if you're not qualified for the job. Producing invoicing for work completed or at least 'safety checked' by a pro is the fair and proper way to do things. There are alot of dodgy mods out there and they are unsafe, you know this. You can't ask for special treatment because you "know what you are doing". These have been famous last words. The police would like to see evidence of a qualified professional doing the job. I love working on my own car, but I also love ensuring everything is right and safe. I have no quarrels at all with having most or part of the work completed by a pro. It only commonsense guys. Before you go bombarding Neil with trivial questions, push your pride aside and try using a bit of commonsense first.

i have always been suss of the pillar gauges and how they are different to some1 GPS system or like a taxis job screen???

it would seem a GPS system would distract you alot more then a glance of your water temp.

debatable indeed.

Debatable indeed. GPS units have voice prompts and directions tho, so you don't have to take your eyes off the road. Temp gauges don't audibly tell you when you car is at normal operating temps. But you're now talking about driving distractions, not objects that can harm in the event of a crash. On that topic, GPS unit would indeed fall into a similar category as gauges (in the event of a crash). I'm no rocket scientist, but I do keep an open mind. Think about it and the answer can be quite obvious, even if you don't like the answer.

I couldn't agree more with the taxi layout. Poorly trained, hardly any driving skill, and they have a huge distraction in their cabin. I was almost cleaned up by one this morning actually (about half hour ago). But this is an arguement for the taxi council and police. Its not our fight, and I'm sure Neil will tell you they have special permission/ADRs for such equipment, whereas we do not for gauges.

Edited February 15, 2009 by RubyRS4

[SLAPS]

But this is an arguement for the taxi council and police. Its not our fight, and I'm sure Neil will tell you they have special permission/ADRs for such equipment, whereas we do not for gauges.

Paper delivery Vans, Taxi's and some couriers apply for an exemption, even then it has to be 'approved'.

Taxi's are kitted out by an approved fitter etc.. Regardless there is no 'need' to have pillar gauges and they can cause serious harm. Its just one of those mods that we should think twice before fitting.

[Krishy]

very good out come there people

would like to thank all parties involved in getting some sort of matured understanding

there are some mods that are in the grey area as far as i see it

for example: are coilovers defectable.....atm according to police and regency its a YES

but there is not written rule about them...AFAIK....so whats up with that

[SkyHi_33]

with coilovers, a few suspension companies have talked to regency about this and the outcome is regency doesn't like anything adjustable in the suspension as it increases the risk of something going wrong.

although you can engineer coilovers at a set height and pass with them. so really you are not allowed to have them unless an engineer has approved them. (this costs a lot in SA close to $3000, other states around $500)

[D_Stirls]

with coilovers, a few suspension companies have talked to regency about this and the outcome is regency doesn't like anything adjustable in the suspension as it increases the risk of something going wrong.

It is beside the point whether they Like a mod or not, they are there to enforce the design riles what ever they may be not decide themselves whether a mod is illegal or not; None of the regency inspectors are engineers so they aren't qualified to make that call.

This is what I mean about going to court, if they can't pull out the guidelines and point to the code they are enforcing then the car shouldn't have to go to regency.

Edited February 16, 2009 by D_Stirls

[mid life crisis]

when i built my ac cobra replica i had a machine shop make some coil over kits for the front end the guy that did the engineering on the car passed them with no probs regency had no probs with them either when it went down there for there pre registration inspection check over of the whole car .

if there ok for a kit car why not a skyline seems double standeds too me :-)

[Krishy]

this is what i was talking to the guy at regency about

all he said that this is a grey area however you will fail your inspection if you have them in.

so i was more confused then ever really

there is no rule stating you cant have coilovers

yet you wont pass your inspection because you have them

so really WTF

[RubyRS4]

It is beside the point whether they Like a mod or not, they are there to enforce the design riles what ever they may be not decide themselves whether a mod is illegal or not; None of the regency inspectors are engineers so they aren't qualified to make that call.

This is what I mean about going to court, if they can't pull out the guidelines and point to the code they are enforcing then the car shouldn't have to go to regency.

And you're not an engineer so you're not qualified to make that call either (that certain mods are safe). I'm not qualified either, so any mod I do can be deemed unsafe. At the end of the day, the inspectors are better qualified to know what is safe, what is not, what meets ADRs, and what does not. There may be no rule against coilovers, but they have a job to do and if in their opinion the coilovers are not deemed "safe" they won't pass them. If you have an invoice showing a pro fitted them or even did the wheel alignment and performed a safety check (or, even better, an engineers certificate like Mid Life Crisis said) then they'd be more relaxed to consider passing it.

It is not your God given right to modify your car. You can argue it anyway you want but in the end Standards are there to ensure the vehicle is safe. Minor mods will be allowed under certain conditions. Major mods not unless backed by an engineers certificate. Yes, there are grey areas in vehicle modification. This is what SAPOL are working on, to make things more fair and uniform. They're not going to take away the freedom to modify our cars, they know they can't stop us, but they are sure as hell going to set guidelines in place and standards to meet. Which is only fair. Too many hoons with Super Cheap specials out there need their cars off the road imo.

People should not be treating this as a personal attack on their car. Keep an open mind that this progress towards long term benefits for all, not short term relief for individuals.

I've got a meeting to attend to now, but I'll post up some more info later ... and hope it clears things up a tad more on how Regency works.

Edited February 16, 2009 by RubyRS4

[Fishpaste~]

I think we need to be really careful with what we are doing...

perhaps engineering certs should be kept in cars, but you only have to look on the first page of the defect thread to see why police want you to keep your workshop receipts in the car:

So I went to Pt Adelaide station. The guys in police office reception told me to go out and wait at my car. Then another cop showed up... *edited to keep it to point* ...He opened up every compartment in my car without asking me and then he started to go through my papers and school stuff just like that... Then he found a couple of receipts from Japanese Performance Imports and said in a smartass way "well, what do we have here? hahahaha" he went through all of them only to find stuff like "fan belt" etc...

i'm all for finding a way to work with SAPOL, but i don't think we should just be walking into traps either... =\

[D_Stirls]

And you're not an engineer

Actually i am

and therefore;

At the end of the day, the inspectors are better qualified to know what is safe, what is not, what meets ADRs, and what does not.

i am better qualified.

Edited February 16, 2009 by D_Stirls

[jenkies]

Thanks heaps Nene Ben and Roo also thanks to Neil for taking time to meet with us

agreed, thanks to all involved.

i few small questions on mods. my obvious mods are a hard piping kit... would this be considered and illeagal defect or a quality modification due to keeping pipe diameters the same and not having rubber that can collapse? better discs and pads. illeagle modification? semi slicks, illeagle modification?

upgraded fuel system with no in car tanks performed proffessionally?

why are turbo timers illeagle? alot of diesels and trucks have them standard

thanks again too all who are giving input