Joeyjoejoe's E85 Tuning Adventutres

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

considering powerplus's other race fuels, i'm guessing that the octane rating will be spot on... probably more consistent than the CSR blend as its from a company that develops products only for performance

the 104+ was a choice on behalf of the servo, as they didn't want united to get their panties in a knot

[discopotato03]

Hi Joey , can you tell us a bit more about this part - in post 298 .

"after speaking to geoff, he informed me that getting the fuel from csr was impossible as the big fuel companies have signed contracts for the next 6 months preventing anyone else purchasing e85, however they are not using it themselves... and the contracts are probably going to get renewed."

Are you saying that the large fuel companies are buying but not selling ? If that's the case wouldn't there be legal issues here ?

I'd reckon if not enlightening the greens movement might make things awkward for the pollies .

Also thanks for the link , was always interested to see a Material Safety Data Sheet or MSDS for E85 .

Lastly interesting that they claim to have additives to reduce corrosion which is always a worry with alcohol based fuels . I will always think twice about anything I use that touches fuel in a car and avoid aluminium wherever possible .

A .

[NickR33]

sooo Hamish do you run 2 files in the power fc? so you can run around with 98 then when its almost empty go get a tank of E85, change maps and off you go?

does the tank have to be completely empty (do you need to syphon) before you change fuels?

also how much injector head room is required... I'm at about 70% now

[Drift Motorsport]

Just a question regarding AFRs and E85.

The dyno figures show Gasoline AFR (according to the graph title on the Dynapack) at being around 10.5 - 12.3 AFR (Gasoline) on the tune.

Which brings me to a lambda / afr table below (http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33448) :

Fuel ........................ AFRst ........ FARst ....... Equivalence Ratio ... Lambda

Gas stoich ................ 14.7 .......... 0.068 ................ 1 ................... 1

Gas max power rich .... 12.5 .......... 0.08 ................. 1.176 .............. 0.8503

Gas max power lean .... 13.23 ........ 0.0755 .............. 1.111 ............. 0.900

E85 stoich .................. 9.765 ....... 0.10235 ............ 1 ................... 1

E85 max power rich ...... 6.975 ....... 0.1434 .............. 1.40 ............... 0.7143

E85 max power lean ..... 8.4687 ...... 0.118 ............... 1.153 .............. 0.8673

E100 stoich ................ 9.0078 ...... 0.111 ............... 1 .................... 1

E100 max power rich .... 6.429 ........ 0.155 .............. 1.4 .................. 0.714

E100 max power lean .... 7.8 .... ...... 0.128 .............. 1.15 ................ 0.870

Using a 1.5 equivalence ratio, 11.5 AFR (GAS) is around 7.5 AFR (E85) - does this sound correct?

When dealing with Lambda, its easy to understand as it is unit-less and non fuel dependent, but the gasoline AFR scale for tuning AFR has got me baffled.

Is it safe to say that you can tune to 11.5-12 AFR (GAS) on E85 and be done with it?

I would like to push for 450rwkw on E85, but im still getting my grip around the tuning aspect before I make a commitment.

[R31Nismoid]

sooo Hamish do you run 2 files in the power fc? so you can run around with 98 then when its almost empty go get a tank of E85, change maps and off you go?

does the tank have to be completely empty (do you need to syphon) before you change fuels?

also how much injector head room is required... I'm at about 70% now

30% extra fuel is roughly what is needed

[STATUS]

Just a question regarding AFRs and E85.

The dyno figures show Gasoline AFR (according to the graph title on the Dynapack) at being around 10.5 - 12.3 AFR (Gasoline) on the tune.

Which brings me to a lambda / afr table below (http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33448) :

Fuel ........................ AFRst ........ FARst ....... Equivalence Ratio ... Lambda

Gas stoich ................ 14.7 .......... 0.068 ................ 1 ................... 1

Gas max power rich .... 12.5 .......... 0.08 ................. 1.176 .............. 0.8503

Gas max power lean .... 13.23 ........ 0.0755 .............. 1.111 ............. 0.900

E85 stoich .................. 9.765 ....... 0.10235 ............ 1 ................... 1

E85 max power rich ...... 6.975 ....... 0.1434 .............. 1.40 ............... 0.7143

E85 max power lean ..... 8.4687 ...... 0.118 ............... 1.153 .............. 0.8673

E100 stoich ................ 9.0078 ...... 0.111 ............... 1 .................... 1

E100 max power rich .... 6.429 ........ 0.155 .............. 1.4 .................. 0.714

E100 max power lean .... 7.8 .... ...... 0.128 .............. 1.15 ................ 0.870

Using a 1.5 equivalence ratio, 11.5 AFR (GAS) is around 7.5 AFR (E85) - does this sound correct?

When dealing with Lambda, its easy to understand as it is unit-less and non fuel dependent, but the gasoline AFR scale for tuning AFR has got me baffled.

Is it safe to say that you can tune to 11.5-12 AFR (GAS) on E85 and be done with it?

I would like to push for 450rwkw on E85, but im still getting my grip around the tuning aspect before I make a commitment.

the final graphs i give in AFR as people relate easier for some reason (the offset is petrol on those graphs), the dynapack has the abilty to offset the afr output to suit E85, Petrol, LPG, Alcohol and diesel. If your worried about it just tune in Lambda, i dont know a dyno that cant be switched in a mouse click

if not drop past and i'd be happy to show you the differences live.

[STATUS]

30% extra fuel is roughly what is needed

or 20% on the southland gear.

[NickR33]

or 20% on the southland gear.

I might just sneak in without having to get bigger injectors... hmmm

[R31Nismoid]

Oh ye... lol forgot it was different...

You might indeed sneak in.

You could also just bump the pressure a tad, surely wouldn't need much of an increase at all with your larger injectors.

[SS8_Gohan]

I might just sneak in without having to get bigger injectors... hmmm

what size injectors you got there Nick?

yeah, when Trent tuned my car after changing to the Southland fuel, things were a little out of whack... i imagine you just did the same things with mine that you did with Hamish's?

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

sooo Hamish do you run 2 files in the power fc? so you can run around with 98 then when its almost empty go get a tank of E85, change maps and off you go?

does the tank have to be completely empty (do you need to syphon) before you change fuels?

also how much injector head room is required... I'm at about 70% now

i take the return line off and drain the fuel, then plug in the laptop to change maps

[STATUS]

what size injectors you got there Nick?

yeah, when Trent tuned my car after changing to the Southland fuel, things were a little out of whack... i imagine you just did the same things with mine that you did with Hamish's?

yeah, i thought yours was just an isolated case (first southland e85 car) but now all 3 cars that have run the E85 from there have needed an adjustment. Hamish has noted a loss in low end response too compared to the old E85 tune so i would like to get it in and tune it specifically for the southland brew. i reckon it has too much fuel still in the transitional parts of the map (we only did a quick adjustment for the southland fuel to map it safe).

[boostn0199]

so in regards to power did the southland stuff be as good as the united stuff?

[STATUS]

so in regards to power did the southland stuff be as good as the united stuff?

same.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

IMHO the southland stuff seems to be a better fuel...

the loss of response i'm getting is only sub 2k in 1st. you can hear the unburnt fuel, so it's definitely a case of just being way too rich...

the tune was fairly quick and we just focused on getting the top end right... so it stands to reason that the bottom end will be a little bit richer with this fuel, as that part of the map is still expecting CSR

as far as i can see the only issue with this fuel is if you tune for powerplus, and then fill up with CSR... you will then be running lean...

so as i stated many many pages back, you rely have to make a decision on where to get it from and stick to it

[boostn0199]

hrmmm im interested I think ill be coming down to you trent soon to get the tune for e85 setup aswell, so you can give me both tunes on usb or something so I can swap in between them? Probably just keep the e85 tune more for track days or on street if in southland area

[180or200]

yeah, i thought yours was just an isolated case (first southland e85 car) but now all 3 cars that have run the E85 from there have needed an adjustment. Hamish has noted a loss in low end response too compared to the old E85 tune so i would like to get it in and tune it specifically for the southland brew. i reckon it has too much fuel still in the transitional parts of the map (we only did a quick adjustment for the southland fuel to map it safe).

could it be your not getting E85, maybe E75 or E70, what your saying sounds similar to the results I was getting blending my own E70 in the dead of winter!

I remember reading somewhere that some manufacture winter and summer blends.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

its definately 85... 75 would have less power i'm guessuing

it gets the same power using less timing and fuel than the CSR sugarcane blend

my car is ony lagging because the tune isn't finished

[NickR33]

what size injectors you got there Nick?

HKS 680cc

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

from memory guilt toy ran out of head room @ 380rwkw with a 740cc injectors