Rb26 Or Rb 30

[Risking]

Oh here we go...

Stock GTRS's?

Big power figures are nice, but torque is what im chasing. Maybe another 70/80 kw atw but as much torque as possible. With that said im trying to find out what cams would be best for the next motor (which is coming together, starting at bottom end first though).

I promise the next motor in the GTR will be a suprise to a lot of people after my "RB30 for life" antics. But thats for another thread once its finished and run in, and it'll stay quiet until then.

At the end of the day this is a comparison thread, so why dont you make it 100% fair and take your head off, put it on my RB30'd GTR and dyno that combo?

Short of that, we'll just have to see whats wrong with the SM4 and be patient until its all humming along. Know anyone who can fix it and not charge an arm and leg? Would love to know how the thing broke...

Correct.

I now know the common element between your engines, and have "seen the light" so to speak.

Auther at JEM would be able to fix the autronic. His fixed similar problems with Haltechs and power FC's for me many times.

Id think you already have a fair idea of what you do and dont need.

[N1GTR]

So now its not the bottom end that makes the engine its the head. I agree with that one.

Build your own head...your not getting mine. Actually i will build you one if you like...ok...no problem.

Send the SM4 back to Ray Hall...he will fix it for you for free. Ill organise it for you...ok...no problem.

Knowing the basis of the trick is one thing...but do you know to perform it?

Looks like ill have to be in touch soon.

Thanks!

No, i leave that stuff to the eggspurts

[N1GTR]

Auther at JEM would be able to fix the autronic. His fixed similar problems with Haltechs and power FC's for me many times.

Id think you already have a fair idea of what you do and dont need.

I think you do aswel, funny how that works!

Shopping has started.

[Swiper the Fox]

I think you do aswel, funny how that works!

Shopping has started.

does the list happen to have something with a telephone convo. we may have had?

[N1GTR]

does the list happen to have something with a telephone convo. we may have had?

Bottom end first

But yes, I will take you up on your offer from that call

[JAGR33]

I seriously don't see any point in comparing dyno figures using different dynos, different operators on different days. POINTLESS.

Oh, and dirt, comparing your car to Ben's?? you know his is in a different league....

Back on topic....

[GETSET]

Wait till i get into the RB30's...ill have a few surprises im sure.

WOW Dirtygarage you are amazing and if anyone didn't already know it I'm sure you'll start a thread telling them how amazing you are. As per usual you'll build a RB30 redesign the wheel in doing so then crow how great it is and expect all to forget how much in the past you've bagged them as they are a forklift motor.

Like your big single turbo when you were the FASTEST LOW MOUNT TWINS "in the world" ha ha ha you never had a kind word for big singles. Also stop lieing about your second hand parts being new when anyone with half a brain knows they're all parts from Marks old set up. Like you preaching about you only use HKS turbos and yours is new, bit of conflict getting GCG to change things on it straight away ... sort of makes it NOT a HKS turbo any more

Or your snide remarks about auto gearboxs but secretly trying to get one for your own car or the POWE FC'S ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD until you think you can make a few $$ from another ecu then WHAM power fc's aren't any good buy the ecu I now sell, the list goes on and on. If anyone disagrees just do a search the proof is in black and white

PLEASE for the love of god start telling the truth so those of us that know the truth can read your posts without choking on our coffee in laughter

Edited March 3, 2009 by GETSET

[Swiper the Fox]

WOW Dirtygarage you are amazing and if anyone didn't already know it I'm sure you'll start a thread telling them how amazing you are. As per usual you'll build a RB30 redesign the wheel in doing so then crow how great it is and expect all to forget how much in the past you've bagged them as they are a forklift motor.

Like your big single turbo when you were the FASTEST LOW MOUNT TWINS "in the world" ha ha ha you never had a kind word for big singles. Also stop lieing about your second hand parts being new when anyone with half a brain knows they're all parts from Marks old set up. Like you preaching about you only use HKS turbos and yours is new, bit of conflict getting GCG to change things on it straight away ... sort of makes it NOT a HKS turbo any more

Or your snide remarks about auto gearboxs but secretly trying to get one for your own car or the POWE FC'S ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD until you think you can make a few $$ from another ecu then WHAM power fc's aren't any good buy the ecu I now sell, the list goes on and on. If anyone disagrees just do a search the proof is in black and white

PLEASE for the love of god start telling the truth so those of us that know the truth can read your posts without choking on our coffee in laughter

woah...easy tiger...you need to get off the coffee and maybe drink something a little more calming.

a few home truths perhaps...as thats what you ask for but you seem to talk a little turd.

I love a lighthearted niggle...its what us aussie's do...most of it is directed at people i have a relationship other than whats written on here. Like brothers or mates bouncing jibes off each other, nothing more. They have RB30's i have a 26...does that mean im not allowed to build one to see what the fuss is all about. Before RIPS ive never seen anyone successfully adapt one to 4WD properly and also achieve good results in 4WD format. The joke about being a forklift engine (they are engines not motors as they use combustion) is a classic i have to credit to Jack (JAGR33) and Ben at Racepace...its a classic and pretty funny.

I achieved on low mounts what most people thought was only obtainable with a single. All that was ever said in regards to that was directed at the naysayers that said it couldn't be done. Big deal...really

Its more than common knowledge that im racing with Marks team at Godzilla now and its no secret that the HKS turbo kit and PPG gearbox is Marks old stuff thats been tarted up. When i say new i mean new for me, my car, my set-up etc. A bit like when someone buys a second hand car...its new to them...but not a new car. Wow i even use the same clutch as Mark does as he refers to my clutch as the sister to his or is that a second hand part that we swap between cars?.

If you had any knowledge of HKS turbo's you would know that the T51 range shares the same cartridge as the Garrett items. The difference is in the housings...so whats the problem using those housings to produce a bigger turbo to match the new spec item HKS have released. Yes i have always used HKS turbo's on my cars...both circuit and drag.

The stirring over auto's has always been directed at 2rismo, 1JZ-747 and Bu5ter...guys i race with and know outside of this forum. I used to get a laugh out of telling them i actually drive my car instead of just sitting in it.

The Power FC performed admirably considering what i was using it for but we were always held back by its limitations like no launch control, anti-lag, drivability and most importantly for racing data logging. Guess what? the Vi-PEC ecu didn't exist then...if you had asked me back then if it was better than a MoTeC i would have said no, as the MoTeC was the 'holy grail' of ECU's back then in my eyes...but now the V88 Vi-PEC exists. The Vi-PEC is a fantastic product and has allowed us to step up a level with the car, time will be a good thing for this product as it will in time show its top notch. Im not a dealer or re-seller of the Vi-PEC product, so i have no financial interest in it...yes Mark is a dealer and im happy to use and support the product for him. It make good sense to look after a fella who has so much to offer me and the development of my car.

You need to get over the problem you obviously have with me as you have a history of negativity towards me and the achievements ive made with the car.(its all there in black and white) This is a community where people come on here to help each other out, have a joke, share knowledge and make friends. Ok not everyones going to like everyone, all people are different and sometimes the written word can be read the wrong way. But personal attacks are a bit lame.

its nice to be nice

cheers

Edited March 3, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[GETSET]

$5565.81 not including freight and duty plus $1100 to modify it to T62 spec...do you want me to order you one?

Mark charges you new prices for the turbo? or was this posted just to make people think your amazing?

[Swiper the Fox]

Mark charges you new prices for the turbo? or was this posted just to make people think your amazing?

He said he would like a turbo the same and thats the current price if he wanted one you idiot...im not selling him the one ive got am i. He said he wanted a HKS T51R so a quick search of Nengun's pricelist will tell you what another one will set you back. Guilt-Toy is a good mate of mine who i speak to every day, a bit of banter between mates. But yes he thinks im amazing and only said the other day that he only thought so after i posted that...lol...ya clown.

Your barking up the wrong tree asuming a lot but knowing nothing.

i was polite enough to address your concerns ok.

Edited March 3, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[GTR-32U]

Wow umm a bit of Hostility starting to shape up here....??

Anything that can be put to rest with a few cold Beers ?

[Swiper the Fox]

Wow umm a bit of Hostility starting to shape up here....??

Anything that can be put to rest with a few cold Beers ?

yeah a bit stiff eh.

im having a nice cold Coopers green...very nice.

[GTR-32U]

yeah a bit stiff eh.

im having a nice cold Coopers green...very nice.

Cant say I have tried that Beer yet ( must put it on my to do list )

Mate I got to Powercruise on Sunday Arvo Hoping to check out Twoogle but unfortunately wasnt able to. Let us know when your in the area and if all things permitting ( leave Hi energy 2 yr old with Relatives )

Maybe i can have a good look at The Beast !

[Swiper the Fox]

Cant say I have tried that Beer yet ( must put it on my to do list )

Mate I got to Powercruise on Sunday Arvo Hoping to check out Twoogle but unfortunately wasnt able to. Let us know when your in the area and if all things permitting ( leave Hi energy 2 yr old with Relatives )

Maybe i can have a good look at The Beast !

Yes its the one i ask for when people need to pay me in the international currency.

Compak Attak in a few weeks at WSID...if you can make it, ill see ya there.

Righto...back on the topic of how crappy these forklift engines are compared to the awesome 26...lol

Edited March 3, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Drift Motorsport]

Back on topic....

If I had a GTR with a perfect RB26 - I'de leave it stock untill I had problems with the bottom end / needed a rebuild.

If I was going to do a ground up rebuild I would choose an RB30 26 head setup and budget another $1k ontop for the 4wd sump adaptor.

If both engines need to be rebuilt and forged - the RB30 is the clear winner because it is the same cost as the RB26 and the extra .4 litres will certainly be noticeable.

High RPM on an RB30 is all about head flow (DOHC GTR Head - problem solved) and balancing. There is no reason why an RB30 cant rev as high as an RB26 without the right balance work. RIPS have proven this in their setups as well as Drag VLs revving over 8500 in SOHC form and running 7.9 sec on the 1/4 mile.

Keep in mind that RPM isnt everything either. If you make peak power at 7500 rpm - why rev it to 9000 rpm? The RB30 would make more power at the same RPM than a comparable RB26.

Furthermore, to get the most of your engine package, diff gears play a vital roll in multiplying the torque out of the engine/transmission to the ground. Match the gears to your track/street duties and you have an ultimate combo.

For a similar analogy I've driven a 1JZ Soarer with 250rwkw and a 2JZ Soarer with 262rwkw. 1J is 2.5L and 2J was 3.0L. The off boost torque was amazing in the 2J and once the turbo was on full boost it just pulled all the way to redline. The extra displacement makes the car more fun to drive and much more streetable.

On a street RB26 RWD vs a worked RB30 SOHC in a VL with similar power, the RB30 just felt that much better even with the SOHC head setup... The RB26 is peaky and requires higher RPM whilst the RB30 will do the same work at less RPM with less fuss.

You can compare any dyno graph you wish and talk shit on the internet untill you get blisters on your fingers. Until you drive both and experience the torque of the RB30 first hand you dont know what your talking about. The bottom end is just an air pump. The more displacement - the more air and thus the more power you will make.

RB26 have their place but from my experience and engine builds a worked RB30 is greater than a worked RB26.

The biggest problem with your build will be how much do you want to spend to make each engine reliable?

[shanef]

i see your mate was kind enough to leave the tangs off the front of your car.

im more than confident of this...

my rb26 gt-rs > your rb30 gt-rs

who'se head is better though? (shutup they are both mangled)

and ur gtrs' were red r racing spec

apples with apples?

[Guilt-Toy]

ohhh i see some people have a issue with Mr Dirt?? Why don't you guys take your differences to the track. If you don't like the fact that his car is better and faster then yours then deal with it. Going out on the internet and picking on everything he say's just makes you look silly.

Thanks for the laugh though.. it was good.

[bubba]

an up side to a 30 would be because of the lower revs, (all us normal peeps) you wouldnt have to spend a heap on the head for it to hold together a 9k+

i mean if its a whole 1000rpm earler in lag.. it a win win in my opinion for the rb30. but if its not 1000rpm better in responce......

I know I didn't have a 26 but I pretty much did a back to back with my RB20 and RB30 with the same turbo.

On the RB20 it was making 12psi by ~3500rpm with peak power ~6500rpm.

On the RB30 it made 12psi by ~2200rpm and peak power ~4600rpm.

That's what a whole extra litre does..

Draw from that what you will

[SimonR32]

I know I didn't have a 26 but I pretty much did a back to back with my RB20 and RB30 with the same turbo.

On the RB20 it was making 12psi by ~3500rpm with peak power ~6500rpm.

On the RB30 it made 12psi by ~2200rpm and peak power ~4600rpm.

That's what a whole extra litre does..

Draw from that what you will

ok ill actually bite on this one...

rb20 has 3000rpm of useable boost and rb30 has only 2400rpm!!! RB20 WINS!!!

if you actually have a look at both your graphs you would actually find that the rb20 would turn out to be faster motor for the car

good graphs to compare rb26 vs rb30 are busters rb30 with 51kai and mine or r32gts rb26's with t04z, all are making similar power with very similar rev/power bands

Edited March 4, 2009 by Cerbera

[N1GTR]

You wouldnt happen to have those graphs Cerbera?