Winding Back The Clock.

[GTR-N1]

realisitically it's always gonna be in the back of your head that the car probably has had something dodgy done to it. thats the risk of buying used imports. So there's not much point whinging about it. People will do anything to make a sale, which in turn gives the buyer less trust in the seller. If it's like that here in Australia, then think about trying to buy a car from a used car salesman in a different country with different road laws and regulations, and speak different language - of course your car isn't gonna be exactly as you expect it to be...

*There are some good used car selespeople out there, i'm not having a dig at you.

True Dave!

Like, I'd hate to be a Chinese lookin' Aussie buying a Japanese import off a The land of goat sphincter rings Car Salesman in Thailand eh?

[gotRICE?]

New steering, wheel, aftermarket gear knob, car previously had floor mats, new seats from wreckers or stolen and a simple re tread of the peddals... takes no more than 10 minutes to change all these and someone could source all these parts for free if they were in the game, fuel addatives to quite down the engine and stop smoke...... and if they were really serious they'd put thick oil in the gear box to stop the box from being noisey....

95% of pople will have no proof that the 50 000km odometer on a 12 year old car arnt real....

Yeah i guess you are right. I kinda thought of that after i posted and expected a flaming.

But the thing is, i dont think the Jappa's care that much. When they export i dont actually think they had a law saying they couldnt do it. So they never bothered doing the the tidy up.

My dad bought an RB20DEt Cefiro in 1992, 1st one in NZ apparently. The thing went like the f**king clappers with "42,000km" on the clock. In the 5 years he owned it, it did in two turbos and a transmission, and the AC caught fire. LOL!. And i think he had to replace every bush in the front suspention, and, the HICAS light flickerd all the time. He knew he'd been had.

[Mattikin1]

any skyline that comes from japan has done at least 100k more than it says so if its 70k it means 170k or more

that is bullshit because in japan they only use the cars up to 80,000km or 100,000mk or somethin like that and then they get rid of them from memory they arnt allowed to drive the car if its done more than that or something like that anyway thats what ive been told and it might not be true since i got told that but the other guy did get told that to doesnt mean its true he may have said he saw it but you been't so how do you know he isnt bullshitting. most things prob arnt true cause im sure heaps of people have been told different things.

[ashneel]

well i hope that u know that all the skylines that come from japan have been winded down, an auto wrecker said and i wont mention his name he saw it with his own eyes they wind the clock down when the car is sold and then they send it to australia and people buy it thinking its genuine Ks .

it dosnt mean if a few ppl do it then others do it to. there are some legit sellers and importers who dont boher tampering with the odo but ye its hard to know when is been done. as posted the condition of the car and minor thins liek seats, seatbelts, gear knob and pedal wear can tell the age of a car at times cars are so well looked after you cant even tell.

im not really fussed about the ks. its the cars condition and the health of the motor is what i look more into.

[bozodos]

So you repeat a bunch of half arsed hearsay ITT mattikin1.

Mine supposedly had done 99000km when it came here and 126 000 when I bought it, now given the wear on the steering wheel / gear selector boot and handbrake boot, I found that hard to believe - I was thinking it had done something closer to 200 000km actually.

From what I recall, due to the registration system in Japan it is often more economical to keep buying a new car every three years rather than pay a rather hefty registration fee, though of course not everyone can afford that.

I think at the end of it, you're playing roulette when it comes to a grey import in terms of pretty much everything.

Edited March 2, 2009 by bozodos

[Space Goat]

that is bullshit because in japan they only use the cars up to 80,000km or 100,000mk or somethin like that and then they get rid of them from memory they arnt allowed to drive the car if its done more than that or something like that anyway thats what ive been told and it might not be true since i got told that but the other guy did get told that to doesnt mean its true he may have said he saw it but you been't so how do you know he isnt bullshitting. most things prob arnt true cause im sure heaps of people have been told different things.

yeah have heard that too... because they make (or profit from) most of the cars over there, they have those rules to keep the economy stimulated... also when i was in japan in 2000 i only seen a handful of older cars most cars were five years old or newer

Edited March 2, 2009 by Space Goat

[bozodos]

the thing is though, where do all of these 80's and even 90's model cars keep popping up from then? surely they aren't being sold from the wreckers or something like that!

[elrodeo666]

The 100,000 km's rule is a crock of shit, NO SUCH THING here in japan. Its just the number where 100,000 service comes up and most japanese think these are excessive k's and the value of the car for resale drops , plus dont want to pay for the 100,000 service. Thus the japanese and their consumer mentality trade in for mass loss and upgrade, upgrade, upgrade.

As for winding back , yep it gets done here for sure, theres a hell of alot of low km cars that keep popping up and control in the 2nd hand car market sems to be like everything else here..pretty slack. Why do you reckon theres so many russians,pakistanis, indians etc in the export game. unless you get full paper history with your car you got to be a bit dubious on the k's.

Also as for the Japanese pussy footing around in their vehicles and hardly flogging them, come over here for a bit, they are speed crazy and shit house drivers.

[Iron Chef]

lol this thread is seriously sucking the smart out of me...

well i hope that u know that all the skylines that come from japan have been winded down, an auto wrecker said and i wont mention his name he saw it with his own eyes they wind the clock down when the car is sold and then they send it to australia and people buy it thinking its genuine Ks .

Rubbish. Sweeping statements like that are just as stupid as saying that none of them are wound back.

and anyone that thinks that ANY car that comes from japan has legit k's is smokin' crack! friend of mine bought a 99 silvia with 45k on the odo... enough said!

See above. Low km cars do exist, they're the ones that fetch top dollar.

any skyline that comes from japan has done at least 100k more than it says so if its 70k it means 170k or more

More wives' tales.

New steering, wheel, aftermarket gear knob, car previously had floor mats, new seats from wreckers or stolen and a simple re tread of the peddals... takes no more than 10 minutes to change all these and someone could source all these parts for free if they were in the game, fuel addatives to quite down the engine and stop smoke...... and if they were really serious they'd put thick oil in the gear box to stop the box from being noisey....

95% of pople will have no proof that the 50 000km odometer on a 12 year old car arnt real....

There isn't a dealer on the planet that would waste that much time and money to try and fool someone into thinking the car had done less kms. They want cars out the door asap, with as little time and expense as possible. They rely on the customer being stupid.

and i'm not saying that your example hasnt got legit km's but it is possible to fake the books and get dodgey receipts that can proove what ever you want to prove. especially if the guy doing the scam (and theres a lot of them) has owned the car from brand new, drives it around where ever, has falsified the books from the beginning by constantly typing in the false odometer reading whenever the car will be officially seen by a 3rd party

It's not possible to fake the export certificate, all of which now list the kms every time the car is re-registered. The kms are recorded by a third party, not by the owner. Again, you're assuming that every person in Japan is involved in some kind of giant conspiracy to defraud the next owner. Believe it or not, some people just drive their cars and get whatever they get come trade-in time.

that is bullshit because in japan they only use the cars up to 80,000km or 100,000mk or somethin like that and then they get rid of them from memory they arnt allowed to drive the car if its done more than that or something like that anyway thats what ive been told and it might not be true since i got told that but the other guy did get told that to doesnt mean its true he may have said he saw it but you been't so how do you know he isnt bullshitting. most things prob arnt true cause im sure heaps of people have been told different things.

Sigh. Another wives' tale.

When you purchase a new car in Japan, you get 3 years' worth of registration built into the sale. Once that three years is up, you must have a shaken inspection (roadworthy) which then allows you to register your car for a further two years. The registration costs increase every time the car is re-registered, so guys driving around in classic cars in Japan are almost certainly fairly well off.

The other factor worth mentioning is that interest rates in Japan are extremely low compared to Australia - last time I checked (a while ago, I'll admit) dealers were offering finance on new cars at 1.5% interest! I can't get an interest rate like that from my own parents lol.

So imagine, you have a 5 year old car about to run out of rego. Your options are to re-register it (costs can run to over a month's wages for the average full time worker, about $4K when converted to AUD) or update to a new car, pay nothing in the changeover (apart from end up further in debt) and get three years' rego thrown in. Most people take option number two, although in recent months, credit in Japan is drying up, just like everywhere else. That's why sales are plummeting, dealers are overstocked with cars, and manufacturers are shutting their plants for extended periods.

it dosnt mean if a few ppl do it then others do it to. there are some legit sellers and importers who dont boher tampering with the odo but ye its hard to know when is been done. as posted the condition of the car and minor thins liek seats, seatbelts, gear knob and pedal wear can tell the age of a car at times cars are so well looked after you cant even tell.

im not really fussed about the ks. its the cars condition and the health of the motor is what i look more into.

There are good and bad in Japan, just as in Australia.

I mentioned before that all cars being exported from Japan come with an export certificate - this is the Japanese government bowing to pressure from governments overseas and putting strategies in place to limit the practice of odometer rewinding. When cars are complied under SEVS in Australia, the export certificate is retained by the compliance workshop, and must be produced for every car complied when asked by DoTaRS inspectors.

It hasn't wiped out the practice all together, but it has slowed it dramatically.

On the other side of the fence, I've seen it time and time again where the customer will take the attitude of "if it's cheap enough, I won't ask any questions". I've often have to explain to people that cars coming up at auction have a question mark next to their kms (meaning the kms on the odometer don't match the condition) and the first response is almost always "cool, do you think we can get it cheap?" The customer isn't always an innocent victim either. I can pick them a mile away, because they're usually the ones that come to me saying their mate imported his own S15 Spec R manual for $15K landed and complied and want to know if I can beat that price...

As a broker, I don't have the option of tidying up cars for sale and making them look a million bucks on the lot, so my quality control has to be a lot tighter. The cars I buy go to the customer in pretty much the same condition as they are at auction in Japan (plus about two months' worth of grime and dust on the paint). I only use a couple of agents in Japan, because they don't bullsh*t me around - they know what I'm after, and they can spot a wound back odometer from a mile away, in many cases just from reading the auction sheet.

Here endeth the sermon

[bozodos]

TBQH I would have thought that you'd be trying to get the bargain cars to import these days due to the abysmal exchange rate!

On another note, could you explain to me why everyone I know with a HR31 seems to get them here from Japan in almost always better condition than a R32?

[Iron Chef]

I basically have to snag good cars at stupidly cheap prices. A lot of guys just bid online based on what they see on the sheet, so when my guys are there and they see a car that is borderline but is marked as a grade 4 on the sheet, we often don't bother bidding, because we know some pelican will think it's a glamour and pay way over the odds for it.

The reverse is also true - a car marked as having rust on the auction sheet might have one or two tiny spots (fine for compliance), but no-one online will bid because they don't know how severe it is.

The R31s are well and truly into the classic car stage in Japan, so the only ones that are still kicking around over there have usually been well looked after. No one would drift one over there these days. Even decent R32s and S13s are getting very thin on the ground over there - so many have met their maker early on the many hills roads around Japan, meaning the few that are left are usually well thrashed.

[GTR-N1]

I basically have to snag good cars at stupidly cheap prices. A lot of guys just bid online based on what they see on the sheet, so when my guys are there and they see a car that is borderline but is marked as a grade 4 on the sheet, we often don't bother bidding, because we know some pelican will think it's a glamour and pay way over the odds for it.

The reverse is also true - a car marked as having rust on the auction sheet might have one or two tiny spots (fine for compliance), but no-one online will bid because they don't know how severe it is.

The R31s are well and truly into the classic car stage in Japan, so the only ones that are still kicking around over there have usually been well looked after. No one would drift one over there these days. Even decent R32s and S13s are getting very thin on the ground over there - so many have met their maker early on the many hills roads around Japan, meaning the few that are left are usually well thrashed.

Interesting!

^^ Paragraph #2. My car's auction sheet indicated rust. The only place it could be found was a small 50c size section directly below the stop light (on the boot lid). All fixed before takeover. But I'm careful at wash-time because that's where the water likes to sit.

^^ Paragraph #3. Late last year, as I delivered a car manual to Top Secret Imports, I noticed an white R32 GT-R up on the hoist being checked over. Absolutely pristine with like new upholstery (barely used), no shred of rust, completely stock except for Trust exhaust, service hist. with 82000Km. If I had spare cash, I would have bought it. If the mechanic had spare cash, he would have bought it. hehe

Outside at the rear, Garry showed me a Bayside Blue R34 GT-R VS that looked the worse for wear. It was already purchased by a Salon group that only wanted it for stripping to the R.Shell. Mangled diffusers, cracked rims & bars. But engine was good. It was earmarked in the Japan auction-house for only one thing > Ultimately after a lot of work here in Oz > show car.

Motto:- You MUST be able to TRUST your buyer in Japan to know what he's inspecting whilst you're sitting back here in your lounge.

Or else you buy it from your preferred Oz Dealer and inspect it yourself!

[Ronin 09]

rust under the 34 rear stoplight is standard issue - it came from factory like that!!

lol

[Iron Chef]

lol and Stageas all have it under their rear view mirrors too. Mitsubishis from snow country pretty much have it anywhere. I hate to admit it, but Toyotas are generally very good for lack of rust.

Nice "real name" btw, Kaga-sensei...

Edited March 2, 2009 by Iron Chef

[elrodeo666]

Chef is dead right ..When it comes to shakken time the japs just trade up rather than repair. I've seen some jap mates do some stupid trades, they have no sense when it comes to money. Mate just recently trade his legacy B4 75,000k's in mint condition on a toyota probox work wagon 60,000k's at the time worth about $10,000 aussie and got the equivelent of $900 for his trade and thought he got a good deal.. Bitch slap, bitch slap , bitch slap!!! Its their mentality. Its too hard to deal with selling a 2nd hand car or forking out the coin for repairs for 2 yearly shakken so lose and trade up. The minute their bum is in a nice new car they totally forget about their old vehicle.

The rego fees dont really go up that much on a cars age once its 5 years old (except classics) but its the garage that does the rego who chucks on all the little extras is where you get stung. My GTR is about ¥100,000 for 2 years, pretty much what most vehicles I've had here have been, my misso's Jimmny is ￥60,000 for the same ..throw in annual road tax (about ￥45,000 yearly on a GTR ) plus insurance ￥80,000 odd yearly plus car park ￥85,000 a year approx, you can see why they balk at doing repairs.

As for the clock winding, well same as Oz..ya got ya dodgy buggers and ya honest fellas. Like has the car had any repairs..Oh no no no..no repairs..yeah right then whats that over spray...check ya..

When I was looking for my GTR I checked heaps of places and cars and suppose used car salesman are the same world wide..theres alot of bad apples to sort through. In the end I found a guy who was straight up, didnt bullshit and was willing to let me do a thorough check of his cars, take em for a good spirited run, he even threw cars on the hoist and we would go right over them . In the end he sourced what I was looking for and when I decided it was the right car , I handed the coin over happily. Since then we have become good friends, go racing together, and have have bought heaps of after market parts for myself and crew through him.

Didnt mean to ramble but my point is theres good and bad and like Iron Chef said if your importing you have to find someone you can trust and has good reputation. I reckon if I was in oz and after an import and only having a photo and a auction sheet to go off, finding someone who I could trust would be paramount.

Different story living here for 9 plus years and being able to speak ping pong defintiely has helped me get a car I'm totally happy with bar the fact it eats money like nothing else but thats just a fact of life when owning a gtr and being addicted to power and speed.

[Iron Chef]

A Legacy for a Probox? Oh dear...lol

[666DAN]

Reminds me of my first R34 I bought in 2002, a '99 model with 47,000kms on it (had log books as well) makes me laugh seeing the ones still selling today with way under that.

Even my current one which had obscenely low K's (also log booked and was as-new when I got it) has gained 80,000kms in 3.5 years.....these cars love to be driven

[Ronin 09]

yeah anyone who thinks people buy a skyline in JP and do only 4000km/yr is dreaming.

the Japanese do as may kms as we do each year.

[Iron Chef]

Another generalisation!

I've seen 5 year old cars from Japan that have 200,000km plus on them (admittedly most have gone overseas or to the scrap yard before they hit that point), and I've seen mint cars in Oz that have done 4000km a year.

I've also bought a 1988 Cefiro with a genuine 23,000km on it, with service history and backed up by the export certificate. The thing looked like a time capsule, brand new inside.

[Ronin 09]

agreed - my comment is a generalisation.

but the universal assumption here is that all imported cars are genuine low kay cars, when in fact most of them aren't. they're not bad cars, just should be judged against their condition, not kms.

I just think that we as people can make ourselves believe what we want to believe, easily.

just as an aside, I've done less than 3000kms in 15 months. the nissan aus books say 115kms - so yes, there are cars that do super low kms here.

PS chef- don't ever argue with me or I'll throw you out! I'm the Chairman! lol