Blowing Black Smoke On Idle And Won't Rev Past Midway

[reNEGaDeR32]

Hey guys,

I recently bought a R32 with a RB25DET in it. It is running 3" zorst (no cat), FMIC, walbro fuel pump and a WOLF 3D V500. I have been taking it easy with the car for a few weeks to get used to it. Only reving out 2nd and 3rd gear. And then last friday I gave it a bit of stick. Pulled away a few times hard in 1st. And limitered it in neutral for a couple of seconds. Drove it home fine. Tried to drive it a couple of days later and it blew bulk black smoke out of zorst and had misfiring idle. Didn't want to rev past midway in rev range. Would splutter as if hitting limiter. It would still make the 12psi of boost, but not rev. Took it home and reved it a bit and it back fired once and then made 1m in diameter red ball of flame. Let it rest for a day. Tried to drive it again today. Still wouldn't rev and died on idle when coming to a stop. Warmed it up driving it slowly. Then when warm I limitered it again. Then it seemed to rev fine and make similar power to what it made for the last few weeks. It still blows black smoke but it revs fine, but sometimes stalls.

Now my question is, whats could cause it to not ignite the fuel. Spark issue? I disconnected the AFM when the car was running. Made no difference to the idle. What does the Wolf need to read to adjust the engine fuel/air inputs?

Any ideas

Edited March 4, 2009 by reNEGaDeR32

[Mr. Oizo]

Could be running extremely rich, so it's fouled your plugs

Also, do you have a picture of your dyno graph showing AFR's?

Take out your plugs and have a look and see if they are fouled

I was having the same problems with my previous car, because the tuner had run it too rich in certain areas, so it stalled, or wouldn't rev, or just misfired.

So I just went back and asked him to clean up the tune.

[TriniGT]

Check forst boost leaks, there is probably loose intercooler piping and hoses and check for other vacuum leaks.

[reNEGaDeR32]

Car didn't blow any smoke at all for the last few weeks. Could limitering it have cut spark hence the plugs got fouled?

And limitering it again have cleared some of it off the some of the plugs?

None of the 3 dyno charts have AFR's

Umm I used to own a R31 with RB30ET. So where are the spark plugs on a RB25DET? Under that NISSAN 2500 Logo? Coil packs rather than a dizzy right?

However the Idle has trying to keep it at 1000rpm but has been dropping to 700 and jumping 1200 when I got it. Could the plugs have been a lil fouled back then?

The car is still making 12psi on both boost guages which run off the plenum. So i doubt boost leaks, Wolf doesn't need AFM

Edited March 4, 2009 by reNEGaDeR32

[TriniGT]

Check your timing and also your TPS voltage (0.45V at closed throttle and 4.5-5V at WOT). Car just needs to be switched on to check this not started. Also make sure the MAF is getting a proper reading. Yes the plugs are under the cover with the coils.

[blind_elk]

Check your timing and also your TPS voltage (0.45V at closed throttle and 4.5-5V at WOT). Car just needs to be switched on to check this not started. Also make sure the MAF is getting a proper reading. Yes the plugs are under the cover with the coils.

These settings don't necessarily apply to a Wolf 3D. (Wolf use MAP sensing)

reNEGaDeR32,

Talk to Steve at Advance Engine Management (Wolf manufacturer). They are in Melbourne.

[reNEGaDeR32]

Yeh the TPS isn't plugged in like AFM, so I assumed wolf doesn't need it.

I will take it to Mr Thomas in Perth, who sells and tunes wolfs for WA. Cheers man.

I was just wondering if there is a quick way to check. Probably spark plugs

[Al]

I love it when people give advice on a product they have no clue on

Not to be rude reN, but you have very little knowledge of the car and it's ecu. Best to take it to a Wolf approved w/shop to sort out your issues. If you live in Melb i highly recommend EAS (refer to my sig); if on the East side of Melb you can also go to Sabbadin: 95584422.

If you live in another state here is the wolf website www.wolfems.com.au , where you can find a local w/shop.

You can try to contact Steve at AEM, but i know he is an extremely busy man and if you get hold of him will ask you to go to a recommended w/shop. He is even busier now that Rob (Customer support tech/tuner/etc), is on holidays. Steve's and Rob's services are really only called upon by those that have an understanding of how engines work, how to tune an engine and how to diagnose faults. Without this basic knowledge, you'll be wasting their VERY limited time.

[Al]

Ooops took too long to post my reply.

The TPS is the Throttle Position Sensor, the wolf ecu definitely needs this input.

Do you have a hand controller?

[Al]

You can also check the vacuum line to the ecu. The ecu should be located in the passenger kick panel. Remove the kick panel and make sure the line is firmly on the nipple and is not kinked or split. Follow the line to the firewall, then open the bonnet and trace it to the plenum; make sure it's all connected properly there too. Also check to see if the line has been sliced, to use with a boost gauge or something like that; if so make sure that has no leaks too. It is preferred that the ecu has it's own vacuum line and does not share it with gauges, etc.

[reNEGaDeR32]

Hey Al,

I have done a turbo and gearbox conversion on my R31 and I am 3rd year Mechanical Engineer. Don't insult me like that.

I have the car here. The TPS is definitley not plugged in.

The car was tuned by Steve Thomas last time, It had a hand controller, but was sold by previous owner to lower selling price of car

[QWK32]

i dont think Al was trying to insult you, i just read the thred and in your 2nd post your asking where the spark plugs are. can you see how that could be taken as some one that doesn't know what they are doing.

now for the problem, have you done all the basic checks: intercooler piping and joins all good, spark plugs are healthy and you have spark to them, the wolf map sensor vac line is ok as Al has mentioned.

Al - i thought you could set up the wolf to use a graph, MAP vs RPM, for the load points. so a tps isn't needed. i know on the old V4's you could.

Edited March 4, 2009 by QWK32

[blind_elk]

TPS is at least needed (recommended) for acceleration functions. And for Injector Overrun.

[_Ryan_]

I love it when people give advice on a product they have no clue on

Not to be rude reN, but you have very little knowledge of the car and it's ecu. Best to take it to a Wolf approved w/shop to sort out your issues. If you live in Melb i highly recommend EAS (refer to my sig); if on the East side of Melb you can also go to Sabbadin: 95584422.

If you live in another state here is the wolf website www.wolfems.com.au , where you can find a local w/shop.

You can try to contact Steve at AEM, but i know he is an extremely busy man and if you get hold of him will ask you to go to a recommended w/shop. He is even busier now that Rob (Customer support tech/tuner/etc), is on holidays. Steve's and Rob's services are really only called upon by those that have an understanding of how engines work, how to tune an engine and how to diagnose faults. Without this basic knowledge, you'll be wasting their VERY limited time.

Hey Al,

I have done a turbo and gearbox conversion on my R31 and I am 3rd year Mechanical Engineer. Don't insult me like that.

I have the car here. The TPS is definitley not plugged in.

The car was tuned by Steve Thomas last time, It had a hand controller, but was sold by previous owner to lower selling price of car

Don't be rude to those who are offering you help, or you will find it will stop coming!

You DID ask where the spark plugs were...

[Tangles]

umm, yeah

easiest job in the book; I changed my oil and sparkies last night !

plug in the tps and give it a go ?

[reNEGaDeR32]

There are NO wires or plugs in my engine bay, that should connect with the AFM or the TPS as the wolf 3d V5/V500 does NOT need it. Depending on what tune and setup it has. Just like blind_elk and later QWK32 said.

I asked where the spark plugs were cos they were not where I expected them to be compared to my RB30ET. But I did say where I thought they were, which IS where they are. I was just checking, that doesn't mean I have very little knowledge. But I see how that could have looked.

He could have said "leave it to the experts", not "you have very little knowledge". But anyway he didn't mean to be rude. Nor did I so its fine. Chill.

I am so tired of forums. People flaming you for wording something incorrectly. Or commenting on you cos u have got a million posts on this forum, hence must be a noob. I have been moding car in performance for 4 years. So rather than flame me for being percieved as rude. Just give me advice. If u don't think I deserve it. Fine. Then if u don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Didn't mummy teach u anything (jks) [this was ment to be said in a calm, adult like manner. Not rude or angry. Thanks]

So I will check the spark plugs soon. Quick question. If I put in platinum or iridium plugs and the tune is still a bit rich and I limiter the car, will the plugs get fouled and hence need to be replaced? So better just to change copper ones every 5000kms?

EDIT - OMG I said in post one that I disconnected the AFM, I ment O2 sensor which controls fuel mixture. And this did nothing.

Edited March 5, 2009 by reNEGaDeR32

[paulr33]

go see a tuner

[Al]

Ren seems like you know it all mate, so what's with this thread?

Saying "you have a lack of knowledge" is not calling you stupid or insulting you, it's just say that to diagnose a fault you need to know the products involved.

Yes, the wolf can work without the TPS, but it's harder to tune and more "unstable" as it only uses one reference point/sensor (MAP) to tune.

BTW the 02 sensor is only used for closed loop applications, but hey you already know that right

[blind_elk]

Word of advice reNEG - in all my 35+ years of motoring, I can't recall a time when I had to consistently bounce an engine on its rev limiter. There is nothing cool about it. Treat the engine nicely, and it will behave itself. Abuse it (by "limitering" it), and it will bite you.

[reNEGaDeR32]

Go see a tuner is good advice.

I certainly don't know it all. Sorry if thats how I come across. I am asking a lot ot questions and not getting much answers, hence the best bet is to go see someone (tuner) rather than post on a forum.

It may be harder to tune without a TPS, but that is what has been done to my car.

Nope, I didn't know the O2 sensor only works only on a closed loop. But when it comes to After Market ECU's I have limited knowlegde.

I shall certainly not be limitering my car randomly soon. I since I have had the car the occasional hitting rev limit for a half a second due to not knowing where it was before changing gear, when driving hard. And a limiter bounce for a second or two when it warmed up and in neutral isn't death. But if thats what I did and this is what I got. Fair enough. I won't do it again.

Thanks for the advice guys