Fuel System Design

[Tektrader69]

Can someone point me in the right direction for info on fuel system design ??

I have a fuel cell, header tank but need info on pump placement, sizing, return lines or not etc etc

[BezerkR32]

probably need some more information about application, estimated power etc. Im pretty sure basic layout was covered in Mark& Duncans R32 build thread. but generally you run a lift pump from your cell to a surge or header tank, then high pressure pump to rail, then return back to header tank, then overflow back to cell or main tank. There are intank pumps you can drop into the cell that eliminate the need for the header tank, but this all depends on application. can also modify cell to accomidate intank pumps as i have. Drag cars dont need the header tank, they just run the high pressure pumps off the rear of the cell.

Can someone point me in the right direction for info on fuel system design ??

I have a fuel cell, header tank but need info on pump placement, sizing, return lines or not etc etc

[Tektrader69]

probably need some more information about application, estimated power etc. Im pretty sure basic layout was covered in Mark& Duncans R32 build thread. but generally you run a lift pump from your cell to a surge or header tank, then high pressure pump to rail, then return back to header tank, then overflow back to cell or main tank. There are intank pumps you can drop into the cell that eliminate the need for the header tank, but this all depends on application. can also modify cell to accomidate intank pumps as i have. Drag cars dont need the header tank, they just run the high pressure pumps off the rear of the cell.

Ok, Car is 300zx twin turbo, Power approx 450rwkw

Injectors converted to 1000cc top feed running E85, Fuel consumption is high, 60 litres lasts approx 120klms at Winton long track.

I have a 2 litre header and 57 litre fuel cell. Car is circuit racing only.

Suggestions on lift pump and pressure pump would be appreciated. I will go read the R32 thread. thanks

Edited March 8, 2009 by Tektrader69

[BezerkR32]

two Bosch Motorsport 044s will do the pressure side. I high volume carburettor style pump is needed for the lift. have you replaced your fuel feed line?

Ok, Car is 300zx twin turbo, Power approx 450rwkw

Injectors converted to 1000cc top feed running E85, Fuel consumption is high, 60 litres lasts approx 120klms at Winton long track.

I have a 2 litre header and 57 litre fuel cell. Car is circuit racing only.

Suggestions on lift pump and pressure pump would be appreciated. I will go read the R32 thread. thanks

[Tektrader69]

have you replaced your fuel feed line?

I was thinking of reusing the two HICAS hard lines I have spare, to feed the fuel forward and return. With braided at each end. Is 8mm bore big enough for a feed line ?

2x 044's sounds doable. I can get Bosch pretty right. Any suggested Bosch part numbers for the low pressure feed pump ??

Question about tanks. The fuel tank in a 2 seater zed is forward of the rear axel. If I use the fuel cell it will be behind the axel.

I am thinking the stock tank may be a better proposition weight distribution wize. What has to be done to the stock tank to make it suitable for use? Its actually quite deep and not very wide with a nicely formed sump.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Tektrader69

[BezerkR32]

if you use the stock tank the standard fuel pump is perfect to use as your lift pump.

will save you a lot of hassle.

I was thinking of reusing the two HICAS hard lines I have spare, to feed the fuel forward and return. With braided at each end. Is 8mm bore big enough for a feed line ?

2x 044's sounds doable. I can get Bosch pretty right. Any suggested Bosch part numbers for the low pressure feed pump ??

Question about tanks. The fuel tank in a 2 seater zed is forward of the rear axel. If I use the fuel cell it will be behind the axel.

I am thinking the stock tank may be a better proposition weight distribution wize. What has to be done to the stock tank to make it suitable for use? Its actually quite deep and not very wide with a nicely formed sump.

[N1GTR]

Keep the stock tank but run an external surge tank mounted in the boot - thats easier than changing the stock fuel tank

[Tektrader69]

Ok sounds like a plan,

Is foam filling of the tank really neccesary or required ? I dont seem to have much of a surge problem on the track with the road car and the stock tank.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Tektrader69

[BezerkR32]

factory tanks are usually baffled so no. Just keep the fuel level at half or above. Foam is good in cells which are usually square and have no baffles. some dont even have a sump. Note that the foam reacts to alcahol fuels like methanol, so might have similar issue on e85.

Ok sounds like a plan,

Is foam filling of the tank really neccesary or required ? I dont seem to have much of a surge problem on the track with the road car and the stock tank.

[Tektrader69]

I have been looking into fuel pumps. Best I can get genuine Bosch 044's for is $170 each cash. They dont really look much. The aeromotive A1000 isnt much more expensive and seems easier to fit up and more durable.

HAs anyone used the Aeromotive, SV or Edelbrock high rate pumps? They look like they where made for drag racing. Should be bullet proof.

[N1GTR]

Where can you get the 044 for $170? PM me if you like

They dont look much good, but they get the job done

[BezerkR32]

cant be genuine bosch pumps for that price. i know there are alot of immatations getting around ebay etc.

Where can you get the 044 for $170? PM me if you like

They dont look much good, but they get the job done

[Tektrader69]

cant be genuine bosch pumps for that price. i know there are alot of immatations getting around ebay etc.

Sorry, they are genuine. I buy a lot of these sorts of things for the workshop. These come straight from Bosch via my vendor.

You would not beleive how many hands these goods go through till most people buy them at silly prices.

I have been selling a lot of Nissan replacement parts for the last few years mainly for the zed community. CAS, MAF'S, Injectors, connectors, Coil packs PTU's etc

Prices have always been very keen. I have gotten to know the vendor very well through this.

[DCIEVE]

I looked into aeromotive pumps a while ago and found quite a few pump failures that seemed to stem from people not runninng a pump controller/or fuel cooler. Plenty of info on the supraforums. The local guys I've spoken to love them. Other option is magnafuel, pump and motor aren't integrated like other pumps so theyre rebuildable... but you pay for it.

The only real advantage I found to running a single aeromotive/magnafuel was the reduced current draw over twin 044's...

[BezerkR32]

if thats the case it answers your own question then . they retail for twice that amount and are proven. should do a group buy.

Sorry, they are genuine. I buy a lot of these sorts of things for the workshop. These come straight from Bosch via my vendor.

You would not beleive how many hands these goods go through till most people buy them at silly prices.

I have been selling a lot of Nissan replacement parts for the last few years mainly for the zed community. CAS, MAF'S, Injectors, connectors, Coil packs PTU's etc

Prices have always been very keen. I have gotten to know the vendor very well through this.

[Tektrader69]

OK I am going to buy/pickup a pair of 044's next week. Anyone else want any while I am there ?

[Tektrader69]

OK I am going to buy/pickup a pair of 044's next week. Anyone else want any while I am there ?

Ok final design is Aeromotive #11101 120 GPH pump 10AN in and out, SX Fuel reg 10AN in and 6AN out. 2 litre swirl pot. Stock fuel tank with stock pump for lift pump.

Overkill maybe but cant get too much fuel. Plenty of headroom for future up grades.

Now to go through the pile of AN fittings I have, figure out what I need and weld up the fuel compartment.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Tektrader69

[Taiquri]

Ok final design is Aeromotive #11101 120 GPH pump 10AN in and out, SX Fuel reg 10AN in and 6AN out. 2 litre swirl pot. Stock fuel tank with stock pump for lift pump.

Overkill maybe but cant get too much fuel. Plenty of headroom for future up grades.

Now to go through the pile of AN fittings I have, figure out what I need and weld up the fuel compartment.

Put another lift pump to tank. I think one is too small or get bigger swirl pot..

[iah]

Can you elaborate a little? thanks

[shanef]

dependant on the ecu u have, you might be able to setup a fuel pump speed controller fairly simply. the aeromotive one only has a few settings, and doesnt ramp up with load or rpm. (its also fooken expensive)

if u want to simplify the lines under the car, i'd run a single -10 line from the pump upto the front and split it into 2x -8 lines feeding each end of the rail. -8 from the centre of the rail to the reg and then -8 from the reg back into the surge tank.

also with that big aeromtoive pump, if you read the warranty card/installation instructions, they stipulate u MUST run a pre-pump filter or you void your warranty. i use the aeromotive filters pre pump and also 1 before the fuel rail.

also re lift pump, any of the carby pumps are good, low pressure and hi volume. if u dont mind the cost and want to keep same branded pumps, go the aeromotive one.