Putting an extra turbo to the R33 GTST

[matixx]

Hey stimps, you welded that inlet manifold at home? not a bad looking number. did you get it flowed at all?

[geordie]

Back to the, lets beat a gtr. The main prob you are gunna have is traction, get some 13" wide rims, pumped guards and 'Y' rated rubber, and then have a shot at it.

[R31Nismoid]

Originally posted by croat

Probably can but for how long? Prob last like a couple of moths... I would never run over 12 psi on stock internals after that u are just killing ur engine.

That is a totally wrong, and inaccurate statement.

Originally posted by mambastu

Is 3500rpm when it starts to boost or when you get full boost ?

What is full boost?

You want 'full boost' go to the web-site... www.fullboost.com

Maybe asking, at what RPM do you achive 12/15psi would be a better question.

Originally posted by Steve

Just thought I would give JMS a call - they do not have a shop in sydney.

I would appear stimps you are either very confused or full of shit.

Either way I think it is a good idea to get stuff right before you start to post up making claims.

There is enough dis-information around already, adding to it doesnt help.

A warning to others that may listen too long or hard to your comments.

:werd:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I also agree with SydneyKid.

It was only a matter of time before the JMS 33 came into troubled waters.

About 250rwkw is all i'll be chasing on stock internals on pump fuel and as lower boost as possilbe, anymore and i'll be playing with danger.

Originally posted by supra

Is this possible? Is it sensible doing so?

If so, what are the cost involved and also performance wise? Can this car keep up with the GTR?:burnout:

As for beating a GTR, lol, good luck mate.

Even if you waste the money on going RB25DETT... you aint never gonna account for the 4wd.

A GTR is in a different class to a GTS-t

You want some good advice, get rid of the TT idea as it's not sensible, and go get a decent single turbo.

Maybe then you might just keep up with a GTR, certainly not beat one.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...?threadid=14183

http://www.ozperformance.net/forum/showthr...?threadid=10670

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...&threadid=27667

Some threads for reading, that's only 3 too, a search will yeild a years worth of reading.

[JimX]

Originally posted by R31Nismoid

As for beating a GTR, lol, good luck mate.  

Even if you waste the money on going RB25DETT... you aint never gonna account for the 4wd.

A GTR is in a different class to a GTS-t

I dunno about that, I've read of plenty of GTR owners getting beaten by cheaper cars like GTS-t's. The reason? Their car is stock. Why is it stock? Maybe they forked out too much on the initial outlay on their car and they couldn't afford to mod it.

Yes a wildly modded GTR is probably going to beat a wildly modded GTS-t at anything (except maybe drag strip where weight is more important). But if it was a choice between a stock R33 GTR and a GTS-t with around $15k+ worth of mods (both working to be around the same price) then give me the latter anyday.

I'm a poor bastard! I can't even afford the $15k of mods, let alone the stock GTR.

[R31Nismoid]

Originally posted by JimX

I dunno about that, I've read of plenty of GTR owners getting beaten by cheaper cars like GTS-t's. The reason? Their car is stock. Why is it stock? Maybe they forked out too much on the initial outlay on their car and they couldn't afford to mod it.  

Yes a wildly modded GTR is probably going to beat a wildly modded GTS-t at anything

A mild modded GTR flogs me stupid off the line.

It's all about traction.

Exhaust, boost, clutch and ECU, (maybe a better cooler) and your GTR is fishing around a high11/low12 on street tyres. Tell me a GTS-t can get there that easily and i'll know what im doing wrong.

If we are going down the modded cars vs. stock car argument then that's not entirely fair.

And are we talking a drag, track or street?

In all 3 classes a stock GTR vs a mild modded GTS-t... i'll let people decide who'll come off the better.

I already know.

[JimX]

Originally posted by R31Nismoid

If we are going down the modded cars vs. stock car argument then that's not entirely fair.

I'm only speaking with respect to what a car owner can afford. If I had $40k, do I buy a stock R33 GTR or a wild R33 GTS-t? Decisions decisions.

[predator]

hehe..well this has jumped straight off the ship and back into GTR vs GTS-T ..

There isn't even any particular reason for running two turbos.. People tend to assume "oh its got two turbos it must be better" when sure, under "out of factory" specs they are, but that is the way it was intended... however for most purposes a single turbo is easier to maintain, balance and above all cheaper mated to an engine - otherwise a lot more cars would be using a twin turb setup from the factory. A lot of the top drag cars also switch back to a single turbo for many reasons, many of them similar.

If you want a really quick car, just sticking another turbo on it is really a very inefficient process unless the engine is built for it. If you want the power, go the proven combination of a fully built RB30, ported RB25 head, and big turbo. I'd rather have that combination for $x than any RB26DETT you could care to give me.

Take the VL boys - while they're brutish and simple, there is no reason a well matched RB30 and single turbo combination can't do 9's WITHOUT spending a fortune. Its about time more GTS-T cracked that territory, there isn't any real reason why they can't.

Also, its not all about the line. Unless you are drag racing, the takeoff ability becomes less important. Sure its also about cornering, but a GTS-T correctly setup is also damn good for a RWD.

[Steve]

I can think of many good reasons, most of them dollars.

so how much do you thing TRY09 cost? Farken heaps. And I dont think its that cheap on a VL either, still 10s of thousands.

then when the dust has settled, you dont have a very streetable car - or at least what I would call streetable.

If you go twin turbo on a GTST, you have added expense of paying for two of everything, it all adds up.

Much cheaper to go a big single, doesnt have to be a lag monster to give you enough power to get into the 11s, and an low 12 or high 11 sec car is very quick for the street.

Still going to cost 10s of thousands, either starting with a GTR or with GTS.

[stimps]

Rant rant *$*#ing rant......

I never set out to beat a GTR, even tho my car is already quicker than a stock GTR, but lets face, stock is STOCK...and bloody slow.

Yes I made those twin manifolds myself, and the whole reason why i biult this car, is to make a street sleeper....CHEAP.

I had a spare T28 sitting around (cheap)

Had some tools and time and access to a quality TIG machine.

Cost of engine...around 3k.

other bits, intake manifold, 600ish...

Extra injectors.....free (old stock VL ones from wrecker mate)

Extra fuel rail...free, (home made)

New polished fuel surge tank... free (home made)

Extra fuel pump..free (again wrecker mate)

polishing...my time...free (but dont ask for it:P)

Twin 2 inch 90 deg dump pipes made out of shed 10 steel pipe and welded into one 3 inch exhaust pipe..back into existing 3 inch system... $40 for the steel

Stainless bends and pipe for the manifolds, $90 from midway metals gold coast

E6k $1800 from a pre existing biuldup

thats about it.....oh and a new carbotics race clutch.

Car goes unreal, gets boost (considerable boost 12 to 15psi) at prob a bit over 3500 (that will be better when the wastegates are better fitted and set up properly, getting some wastegate creep me thinks.) And ive allow it to run 19psi lately. Seems to just love it, no signs of any problems as yet. Only problem im having is the boost climbs slowly from 15psi at 4000rpm or so to its peak of 19psi at 7500rpm (redline 7800) which is more of a gate setup problem than anything else. I set the E boost to 16 and it just runs 13. Quite frustrating but im working on it.

I shit you not it would easily rip off a 12 something the way it sits, but of course im doing heaps more refineing and tuning and sorting out before i go near the track.

and sorry for the inacurate information before...can we drop it now PLEASE. Get some maturity those of you who just turn into keyboard warriors and rant off at someone elses mistakes. Its life.

[R31Nismoid]

Originally posted by predator666

Take the VL boys - while they're brutish and simple, there is no reason a well matched RB30 and single turbo combination can't do 9's WITHOUT spending a fortune.  

Hey gordo...

Just how much do you think the VL's cost to get inot the 9 sec bracket?

I think you'll find with all the years, research and development most of those cars have been through... that it's not as cheap (or as easy) as one thinks.

The motors alone have over 10g's on them

But back too the TT thing, as Steve said, one single will be just as good as two smaller ones, if not better.

And before you max out your bigger turbo, you'll probably need to spend some reasonable $$$ on the motor.

[predator]

Hey gordo...

Just how much do you think the VL's cost to get inot the 9 sec bracket?

I think you'll find with all the years, research and development most of those cars have been through... that it's not as cheap (or as easy) as one thinks.

The motors alone have over 10g's on them

i wasn't implying they're were dirt cheap or easy to get to that state.. but *relatively* speaking, compared to some GTR's and things, they've had a lot less spent to get into a comfortable 9 or 10 sec bracket. To me $50k is "cheap" compared to what it costs to get a GTR to that level.

I was mainly trying to make the point, that twin turbo and 4WD aren't mandatory to have a very fast skyline.

[R31Nismoid]

Originally posted by predator666

I was mainly trying to make the point, that twin turbo and 4WD aren't mandatory to have a very fast skyline.

that is quite true.

But when you get to the 10-9 sec bracket, a RWD car is usually cheaper to make go faster as a rule.

but for the sake of this argument i dont think it's going that far

[Sydneykid]

Hi Stimps, what sort of work do you do? As in what is your hourly rate? Because if you had spent all the time working (O/T or otherwise) that you spent on the car, how much money would you have made?

That is then the true cost of the mods. You didn't get them for nothing, it cost you time and time is money.

I have no idea what you do or how much you get paid, but I will bet it would have been much "cheaper" to have bought a good second hand, complete, single turbo turbo set up than the money you lost by not working at your job.

How close am I?

PS; Yeh, I know about self satisfaction, doing it yourself etc but that is not the point of this thread.

[mambastu]

Originally posted by R31Nismoid

 

What is full boost?

You want 'full boost' go to the web-site... www.fullboost.com

Maybe asking, at what RPM do you achive 12/15psi would be a better question.

If you'd taken the trouble to read all the posts you'd see that Stimpy says he's running 10psi in the post before mine.....sounds like thats full boost

[stimps]

10psi isnt full boost its sorta unknown yet as Im still tuning and setting up this motor (never seem to get time to do much with a house and going away all the friggin time.....)

Sydneykid.....

holey shit man you just blew me out of the water with that comment...the time spent? ermmmm..well im an industrial electrician and i get around 20 bux an hour....and i put in around a years work of my free time (and some of my works time too hehehe) and yeah if you put a figure on it...yeah id say about a years wages.......SHIIIIT.

I simply went the twin turbo way because it meant bigger turbo power for basically bugger all money. Had a spare turbo, did some welding..wallah.

Took me around 3 weeks to construct the exhuast manifolds the turbos sit on...had to reweld them 3 times to get the turbos to sit just right (and fit in the engine bay) and another two weeks to get the dump pipes finished.

Took weeks to do all the polishing and about a month of playing around to get the extra six injectors in there right.

Have frigged around with the intake manifold and plenum so much, put it on and taken it off like a dozen times to get that right.

Yeah, when you look at it like that....its expensive. But its the way I like to do things. I just cant justify handing over great wads of cash to someone else when I can take my time and do it all myself. Its also neat to say "i did" when someone asks who biult it all.

Ive welded all the stainless tank shape things (surge tank, radaitor top resivior tank, steering resivoir tank ) and now i get all my freinds asking me to make stuff for them. And not to mention all the hours I put into welding up the cooler piping, and intake air pipes to the air filters. Home made alloy BOV at the bottm left of that piccy too I made around 2 years ago.

[matixx]

there's a certain satisfaction you get when you build it for yourself. It becomes your own piece of art, that you spent time swearing, bleeding and labouring over. In the end you have a creation that you can say was proudly built by you! I'd love to have the metal working skills (and associated hardware) to construct and fit some of the more advanced parts like you've done stimps, my hat is off to ya.

[JimX]

Another advantage of doing work yourself is you avoid a lot of tax Also you will never get a phone call saying "I'm sorry but we've found a problem with this mod and we're going to have to double our labour charge and you need an extra $500 worth of parts". Sure you might find this yourself if you do the work, but then you can put it back the way it was if you can't afford the extra parts.

Whenever I work on my car I weigh up the hassles with the costs. That's why even though I was more than capable of changing the gearbox, diff, and clutch fluids myself, I just took it to Midas and paid them $30 so THEY would be covered in all the crap instead of me. I don't even have any overalls! I supplied them my own fluids to not get ripped off in that department, and watched as they did it to make sure that my own fluids went in. Best $30 I ever spent on my car

I also wanted a workshop to do my fuel pump for the same reason, but the workshop I went to was a bit grumbly about it and it didn't instill me with confidence. After hearing about some horror stories of bad Bosch pump installs, I was glad that I did it myself in the end even though it took me about 3 times as long as the workshop would have taken.

[stimps]

yeah, if you just go about it sensibly, research a bit to make sure your doing it right, and take the time to go and get the bits you need, its always better to do it yourself than pay someome else. Then if anything happens, you can say "oh yeah its coz of this..." or "shit i forgot that! no worries i can fix it" etc..

[supra]

this thread is so cool to read! thx to all who contributed!

[DAN00H]

Stimps - Full credit for the build up! looks awesome. I must admit, I'd prefer to keep my hard money in the pocket if it's something I can do.