Dodgy Real Estate Agent

[Al]

All help appreciated, but please state if you are in the real estate or legal business, as this would help further.

The story:

Last Saturday I went to an “open for inspection” at a property I found on Domain. After viewing the property I was pretty keen, so an hour after the open inspection closed I rang the agent and requested a 2nd viewing so that I could take my old man. The agent said that nothing could be done till Tuesday, as Monday was a P/H, and that he’ll contact the vendor and give me a call to confirm a time.

So on Tuesday afternoon I decide to call the agent and find out what’s happening. He then advised me that his work partner had a couple go through the property, on Sunday, and had made an offer. I was pretty pissed off, and asked why he didn’t allow me the opportunity to view it on Sunday too. Got the beat around and was told that if the offer fell through he would call me.

That night I decided to call his partner and see what happened and determine what the offer was and if I could place a counter offer. His partner wasn’t much help and wouldn’t give me any information about the offer and whether it was accepted, just saying that he would call if it fell through. I thought this was strange as I knew that other potential buyers could place offers until the moment the vendor signed the contract.

This had been eating at me all week and I couldn’t get it out of my head why a real estate agent would not allow multiple offers to get the best price for the property. Also spoke to a few friends and they stated that maybe the agents had a personal interest for the property (ie: friends or family) and were trying to get it cheaper.

So this afternoon I decided to go to the property and leave a note, with my details, explaining what had occurred and asking if the property was sold. Lucky for me the owner was at home and I could actually hear them speaking about the agents and property. I knocked, introduced myself and started to explain what has been going on. To say she was shocked/surprised is an understatement. She invited me in and we discussed what was going on, she had a feeling something was not quite right, as she had a few people look at the property and the only offer she received, through the agent, was from a person across the road. She also said that no-one had viewed the property on Sunday and that she had knocked back the two low offers (from the same person), as she knew what the property is worth, even though the agents tried to convince her to sell at that offer. I also haven’t been contacted by the agents to be advised that the offer has fallen through.

During our chat I explained that the agents are not looking after her interests and are not trying to get the best price for her property. Therefore she should have grounds to void the contract, report the agents involved to Consumer Affairs and allowing myself to deal directly with her, thus saving $7k-$8k in commission to the agent. She gets the price she wants, I get it for a little cheaper.

Questions:

1/ Can the contract be voided on the grounds that the agents are not trying to get the best price for the vendor and obviously have a vested interest? I’m sure there are some legal rights the vendor has in this area, especially when she has the backing of an independent person (me).

2/ Is there a means for the vendor to report these dodgy agents?

3/ What is the process to deal with the vendor directly?

4/ Anything else I should know/do?

Thanks

Alan

[RBPOWA-(TJ)]

is there come sort of of cooling off period ?

or is that just for the buyer who is allowed to back out of buying it once they have made an offer, OR can the seller back out of selling also.

good luck with it all mate, i have no advice as not looking to buy for another 2yrs, but my mates sister-in-law is a agent could ask a simple question for you ..

[Al]

If you could ask her about the first 3 questions, that would be ace.

[paulr33]

speak to sarah if you want, she will know, or her dad will

1) i would expect, the person selling the house, can pull the plug at any time, but im sure there would be some break out fee, or cancellation fee as she is pulling the plug

2) there would be a channel for reporting tihs for sure

3) it would be between yourself, and her, via your solictor

4) just check the contract of sale terms, your solictor would be able to advise on this also

[JDMPWR]

i seriously think you can take it to VACC or consumer affairs. the real estate agent has to keep the sellers best interest in mind and by what you stated it sounds abit dodgy!

I think you should go to your nearest legal aid office and seek some legal advice.

[madbung]

Vendor (seller) agreements should have a non-performance clause in it.

I have used it twice myself in the past, it's nice seeing the smug grin of a realtor fade away after you sack them.

[Josh33]

I would think the homeowner can cancel their contract with the realestate agency on any number of grounds,

alot of agents think they are a law unto themselves- sounds like you may have stumbled into a scenario where the agent is 'selling' this house to a mate.. or they could have just been giving you the oldest trick in the book where someone 'buys' the house but at the last minute their finance falls through- oh but theyll let you have it for 10k more than agreed..

Eitherway goodluck with it, keep records of EVERYTHING

[paulr33]

when i was looking i had similar style scenarios

where you wonder if your bid even gets to the house seller

buyer: yeah im keen, my offer is $200,000, 30 days settlement, blah blah

agent: yeah ill find out and get back to you

(1.5 days of nothing, dont even speak to house seller)

agent: nah they are goign to wait

or

agent: nah they want 205,000

buyer: ok 206,000

agent: ok ill find out

agent: hey seller i got 206, will u take it

seller: oh its first offer, thats good, lets take it

so you never quite know if your bid even gets through

i suspect they mask the first few bids into lala land (like you have seen)

and then on your 3rd up-bid they pass it on and sell sell sell

[ylwgtr2]

VACC??=Victoria automotive chamber of commerce :S

[RBPOWA-(TJ)]

tell her to call TODAY TONIGHT, their getting low on stories and people to exploit, real estate agents sound like a good target !

[Sass]

Questions:

1/ Can the contract be voided on the grounds that the agents are not trying to get the best price for the vendor and obviously have a vested interest? I’m sure there are some legal rights the vendor has in this area, especially when she has the backing of an independent person (me).

2/ Is there a means for the vendor to report these dodgy agents?

3/ What is the process to deal with the vendor directly?

4/ Anything else I should know/do?

Thanks

Alan

Im in the legal industry, my dad is a Real Estate Agent

1. what contract? if the offer fell through, there is no contract.

there is no vested interest

there may be a conflict of interest

2. you saying they are dodgy makes you liable in defamation if they found it

could report to Consumer Affairs

3. you may be able to but chances are the vendor has sole agency meaning you can only deal with the agent

4. get someone to negotiate on your behalf

[Halle]

Hi Allan.

spoke to my missus.

she does conveyancing at wisewoulds lawyers.

1) She would have grounds to terminate

- Not her best interest

- She can terminate agreement in writing (given notice)

2) Report them to VCAT or ACCC

3) Yes. Vendor go through soliciator. and you go thru soliciator. tell them theres no agents.

4) All conditions are clear.

- both parties have an understanding.

- no verbal agreements/ writing only.

- keep everything clear.

* go through soliciators to buy the house and try and take legal action against the real estate agents*

WIN WIN SITUATION. LOL

hopes this helps.

not clear clear enough pm me and you can speak to her.

[Al]

when i was looking i had similar style scenarios

where you wonder if your bid even gets to the house seller

buyer: yeah im keen, my offer is $200,000, 30 days settlement, blah blah

agent: yeah ill find out and get back to you

(1.5 days of nothing, dont even speak to house seller)

agent: nah they are goign to wait

or

agent: nah they want 205,000

buyer: ok 206,000

agent: ok ill find out

agent: hey seller i got 206, will u take it

seller: oh its first offer, thats good, lets take it

so you never quite know if your bid even gets through

i suspect they mask the first few bids into lala land (like you have seen)

and then on your 3rd up-bid they pass it on and sell sell sell

That's the thing Paul, they weren't even interested in hearing my offer. Just stated a offer has been made and we'll get back to you if it falls through.

Thanks ppl, keep them coming

[Al]

Hi Allan.

spoke to my missus.

she does conveyancing at wisewoulds lawyers.

1) She would have grounds to terminate

- Not her best interest

- She can terminate agreement in writing (given notice)

2) Report them to VCAT or ACCC

3) Yes. Vendor go through soliciator. and you go thru soliciator. tell them theres no agents.

4) All conditions are clear.

- both parties have an understanding.

- no verbal agreements/ writing only.

- keep everything clear.

* go through soliciators to buy the house and try and take legal action against the real estate agents*

WIN WIN SITUATION. LOL

hopes this helps.

not clear clear enough pm me and you can speak to her.

Thanks Dan!

Cristal clear mate

I thought as much. I will give her time to contact her solicitor and get back to me.

[Al]

Hey Sarah, was just about to PM you, i'll appreciate your input

[JMP 82]

Questions:

1/ Can the contract be voided on the grounds that the agents are not trying to get the best price for the vendor and obviously have a vested interest? I’m sure there are some legal rights the vendor has in this area, especially when she has the backing of an independent person (me).

2/ Is there a means for the vendor to report these dodgy agents?

3/ What is the process to deal with the vendor directly?

4/ Anything else I should know/do?

Thanks

Alan

I'm in the game and can help...

1- she can report the incident to consumer affairs and/or the REIV (real estate institute of vic) and they will assess the case and make the appropriate decision... it's a bit of a grey area as the agent can say that they didn't consider you a serious buyer, however, there are no rules against the agent showing you the property even though it is under offer... my take on it is that the agent has breached a number of sections of the estate agents act and also the professional conduct regulations and there are pretty heave fines involved...

2- CAV or REIV - CAV first...

3- well if a property sells while there is an agency appointed as acting agent, then the agent is entitled to commission - this is to prevent the situation where there is an agent's signboard on a house and a passer by knocks on the door and offers the owner 10k less than what they want as they will be saving on agent's fees... the problem lies in the fact that if you buy the house privately and the other agent finds out, regardless of whether they have breached acts or regulations, they can claim commission as they 'introduced' the property to you while they had it exclusively listed with their company - all they have to do is show a record of your inspection on the saturday (which they no doubt have) and they get their cash... NB: it doesn't matter if you buy it privately 12 months down the track after the exclusive agreement between vendor and agent is ended, if you buy it privately, they can claim commission...

4- here's the good bit... if you want to get around this as cheaply and sneakily as possible this is what i would do... make a private agreement with the owner (if you can) on a purchase price... once the exclusive authority period is over with the current agent, you get the vendor to list the property with another agency but she tells them this... "i want to list my property with your agency, however i have a buyer who i have made a private deal with and i want you act as the 'handler' of the transaction. for this i will pay you $1000 commission (which is alot cheaper than she'd be paying the first agent) and all you have to do is write up the contracts and i and the purchaser signs off on them"... this way the first agent can't claim commission as the second agent had exclusive authority over the property when it was sold ie. they have no leg to stand on...

what area are we talking here by the way?

Edited March 13, 2009 by JMP 82

[JMP 82]

when i was looking i had similar style scenarios

where you wonder if your bid even gets to the house seller

buyer: yeah im keen, my offer is $200,000, 30 days settlement, blah blah

agent: yeah ill find out and get back to you

(1.5 days of nothing, dont even speak to house seller)

agent: nah they are goign to wait

or

agent: nah they want 205,000

buyer: ok 206,000

agent: ok ill find out

agent: hey seller i got 206, will u take it

seller: oh its first offer, thats good, lets take it

so you never quite know if your bid even gets through

i suspect they mask the first few bids into lala land (like you have seen)

and then on your 3rd up-bid they pass it on and sell sell sell

this is a breach of the act - an agent has to give EVERY WRITTEN OFFER to the owner, no matter how stupid it may be...

Im in the legal industry, my dad is a Real Estate Agent

1. what contract? if the offer fell through, there is no contract.

there is no vested interest

there may be a conflict of interest

2. you saying they are dodgy makes you liable in defamation if they found it

could report to Consumer Affairs

3. you may be able to but chances are the vendor has sole agency meaning you can only deal with the agent

4. get someone to negotiate on your behalf

1. i think he means the contract between the agent and vendor (the exclusive sale/auction authority)...

4. either way, the agent can claim commission...

Edited March 13, 2009 by JMP 82

[Al]

Western Suburbs - Caroline Springs

[Sass]

1. i think he means the contract between the agent and vendor (the exclusive sale/auction authority)...

chances are there would be a sole agency, restricting anyone else selling it for 2 months

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

Smells more fishy than a John West christmas party. Investigate further but theres nothing on paper so it'll be tough, that being said, heaps more qualified people on here than me.

Edited March 13, 2009 by RBNT