NSW State Supersprints 2009

[GTR32G]

Well done Michele for FTD, and Neil well done for 2nd, my old man finished 3rd but thats right still get 1st as hes road registered and on DOT tyres. Our times where a bit off front tyres not doing there job suffering understeer. Il Post up some pic of the day i took wondering around.

[GTR32G]

a few more...

[GTR32G]

some more again..

[GTR32G]

and my old man and brother..

[Michele]

but thats right still get 1st as hes road registered and on DOT tyres.

CAMS told me the reason why type 5 vehicles aren't allowed to accrue points and it was nothing short of event fixing. It has nothing to do with being road registered or what types of tyres. I could accrue points if I was in the unregistered, race only, GTR R35 on slicks which is up on MY105 at the moment and still be eligible for points.

This is a CAMS State Championship and should include all legitimate CAMS categories. NSW is the only State Supersprint Championship which doesn't allow Type 5 to gain points, and it was CAMS who told me the rule was brought in to "knock off a tall poppy".

[Michele]

Well done Michele for FTD

Thank you... I tried to have a chat to you, but you were always busy. Is that an ARC airbox you are using or custom?

[evil_weevil]

Well done guys, great result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

might see when the next one is!

Anyone know how class 2B when? and fastest time?

thats my new class

[Michele]

Anyone know how class 2B when? and fastest time?

thats my new class

This might help, you can see their times on the results sheet above - 2B looks like it was a Lotus Exige 1.21.83

R1_Class.pdf

[evil_weevil]

Damn lotus!! hahaha

Im well off that pace

[hrd-hr30]

CAMS told me the reason why type 5 vehicles aren't allowed to accrue points and it was nothing short of event fixing. It has nothing to do with being road registered or what types of tyres. I could accrue points if I was in the unregistered, race only, GTR R35 on slicks which is up on MY105 at the moment and still be eligible for points.

This is a CAMS State Championship and should include all legitimate CAMS categories. NSW is the only State Supersprint Championship which doesn't allow Type 5 to gain points, and it was CAMS who told me the rule was brought in to "knock off a tall poppy".

lol I don't see Type 5 in the CAMS Manual anywhere?

It's always confusing as a QLDer doing NSW events with these Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & SV categories

Edited March 16, 2009 by hrd-hr30

[GTR32G]

CAMS told me the reason why type 5 vehicles aren't allowed to accrue points and it was nothing short of event fixing. It has nothing to do with being road registered or what types of tyres. I could accrue points if I was in the unregistered, race only, GTR R35 on slicks which is up on MY105 at the moment and still be eligible for points.

This is a CAMS State Championship and should include all legitimate CAMS categories. NSW is the only State Supersprint Championship which doesn't allow Type 5 to gain points, and it was CAMS who told me the rule was brought in to "knock off a tall poppy".

Thats right you can go buy the R35 GTR and run slicks in type 4 as a sports sedan but i belive you would need a roll cage and CAMS log book or be road registered to do so. I think the NSW Championship is more for the road going race cars and sports sedans, thats why i rebuilding an old mazda sports sedan to run, I know a whileback a few open wheels would rock up do one run take FTD and that leave for the day "knock off a tall poppy"... or more than lightly blow up on the track and spill oil every where, dont get me wrong i think its great that open wheels run and was good to see your car go with out shitting itself like most others that turn up, And if a clubman type car runs needs to be road registered to run for outright.

[Michele]

Like I said, I could spend 200k on an unregistered GTR R35 and run slicks and still be eligible for outright points.

I don't have a problem with all the different classes having their winners... but outright is outright. Its a CAMS State Championship, one that feeds into the Nationals (which correctly and fairly allows type 5), its not a Clubbies Championship. So why don't they have a Clubbies like championship as a part of the series rather than falsly award an Outright title? They do it for hillclimbs... where they, among other things also have a tin top title, but they know how to call a true "Outright".

Its plain wrong. Outright is outright. This rule change was discrimination at its worst and doesn't feed into the Nationals... there is a disconnect.

I'm not saying this because I won... because if type 5 were treated fairly, there would be a lot better type 5's than I out there. I want this fixed because it is wrong. No offense intended for those who have done so in the past, but I don't know how anyone can stand up and accept an outright title when they know they weren't the true Outright winners.

If anyone thinks my car is an easy car to drive just because of what it is, then they need their head read. It wants to swap ends frequently and I have to work at it with all my might to keep her pointed straight. Some of the officials at their postings would be able to back me up, as I'm sure they saw some very testy moments. It might look easy and smooth, but trust me, it isn't.

There is always going to be a car that frequently wins... just wait until its your category that is taken down for winning rather than making the rest of the field lift their game. They didn't stick to the rules, instead, they changed the rules and fixed the event outcome.

I'm taking this higher with CAMS... and it appears to me that they didn't even know about this discriminating rule at the higher levels.

[hrd-hr30]

tread gently, most sprints up here don't have classes for open wheelers.

Regulations for a specific speed event may preclude the use of Formula Libre or open-wheel racing cars.

from:

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/03_speed/..._Libre_Q109.pdf

[FineLine]

Like I said, I could spend 200k on an unregistered GTR R35 and run slicks and still be eligible for outright points.

I don't have a problem with all the different classes having their winners... but outright is outright. Its a CAMS State Championship, one that feeds into the Nationals (which correctly and fairly allows type 5), its not a Clubbies Championship. So why don't they have a Clubbies like championship as a part of the series rather than falsly award an Outright title? They do it for hillclimbs... where they, among other things also have a tin top title, but they know how to call a true "Outright".

Its plain wrong. Outright is outright. This rule change was discrimination at its worst and doesn't feed into the Nationals... there is a disconnect.

I'm not saying this because I won... because if type 5 were treated fairly, there would be a lot better type 5's than I out there. I want this fixed because it is wrong. No offense intended for those who have done so in the past, but I don't know how anyone can stand up and accept an outright title when they know they weren't the true Outright winners.

If anyone thinks my car is an easy car to drive just because of what it is, then they need their head read. It wants to swap ends frequently and I have to work at it with all my might to keep her pointed straight. Some of the officials at their postings would be able to back me up, as I'm sure they saw some very testy moments. It might look easy and smooth, but trust me, it isn't.

There is always going to be a car that frequently wins... just wait until its your category that is taken down for winning rather than making the rest of the field lift their game. They didn't stick to the rules, instead, they changed the rules and fixed the event outcome.

I'm taking this higher with CAMS... and it appears to me that they didn't even know about this discriminating rule at the higher levels.

For someone stating "I am not saying this because I won" Your whole post reads of sour grapes because you did not get awarded outright 1st. What has the fact that your car is a pig to drive got to do with the price of eggs And why would you ever think that its fair for you to compete with cars inside the group 4 rules.

[Michele]

tread gently, most sprints up here don't have classes for open wheelers.

from:

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/03_speed/..._Libre_Q109.pdf

This isn't most supersprints though... its the CAMS NSW State Championship, which leads into the Nationals (all categories eligible for outright). CAMS should not sanction a NSW State Championship (as opposed to say a V8 Championship) and allow all but one category.

BLCC and TCC both have supersprints throughout the year and both allow type 5.

[GTR32G]

The rules have been like these for a few years now and you would have know befor you entered, If you dont like them done run, You Still get the FTD for the day and will get a trophy for that, just arnt allowed to get points for the outright for types 1-4 and type SV. not trying to bag you Michele i think the State Rounds will get more people running with road cars and race car wanting to win outright that just a big open wheeler wanting it.

[Michele]

For someone stating "I am not saying this because I won" Your whole post reads of sour grapes because you did not get awarded outright 1st. What has the fact that your car is a pig to drive got to do with the price of eggs And why would you ever think that its fair for you to compete with cars inside the group 4 rules.

WTF are you trying to say? I have been fighting this fight long before I ran yesterday. Group 4 rules? This is a CAMS State Championship, its not a Group 4 Championship. All categories are eligible, except for type 5 because someone was taking all their trophies at the State Championships (CAMS words not mine).

[Michele]

The rules have been like these for a few years now and you would have know befor you entered, If you dont like them done run, You Still get the FTD for the day and will get a trophy for that, just arnt allowed to get points for the outright for types 1-4 and type SV. not trying to bag you Michele i think the State Rounds will get more people running with road cars and race car wanting to win outright that just a big open wheeler wanting it.

I know they have been like this for a few years, but this doesn't make them right.

I knew the rules before I ran, and accept there is nothing for me in 2009. But I will not sit on my laurels and let this slide. As you are probably already aware, I have covered off my concerns in the Clubbies forum and you already know that I agreed to run under these conditions this year. But I won't shut up about it. I've already been approached about taking this to the press... but I will only go down that path if I need to. Especially given the reasons provided to me by CAMS, how childish was that?

People can have opinions about me all they like, but I'm only trying to right a wrong decision which was nothing short of event fixing.

[Neil]

Well let me throw my 2cents in here.

I totally agree with Michele!!!.

Outright is OUTRIGHT!!! end of story. We are talking about a state comp here not a club round.

1/ Birol's car is on slicks and no chance of being road registed,,,he collects champ points,,,(8 actually) so that theory is out the window. Sorry Brian but I beleive somethings not right. It's ironic that you my good man are here on SAU and we are bitching about your dad's and others car. Please don't get me wrong this is not personal just not right and thanks for the pics mate,,,nice work.

2/ Noel "sore grapes" are you kidding me?. I came 2nd outright,,,yet I don't get outright points either,,,my cars no open wheeler. Why shouldn't a Radical SR?/West/Stohl be eligable for outright points as well?.

Why shouldn't Michele be awarded 1st place with champ points,,,she paid her money like everybody else and won outright.

3/ Harry I spent 2 hours searching cams regs today and more confused now than when I started.

4/ I had a great day and broke my own lap record,,,so I'm happy. Now give me my bloody champ points.

Neil.

[NISMO]

The part i don't get is that

you guys are allowed to compete

you have a category to compete in

you pay to play just like everyone else

there is a national category for you (if i read correctly)

BUT you aren't allowed to accumulate points towards that national championship cause NSW CAMS won't allow it?

If I've got that right, i wouldn't say Michelle or Neil have sour grapes. I would say NSW CAMS needs a slap across the face with a dead fish! (or leather glove - your call)