Power curve Sydneykid

[Sydneykid]

Hi Buster, after you have looked at as many dyno printouts and studied specs as me, you pick up hints. The holding up of the power curve over 7,000 rpm on yours screamed out at me, extensive breathing mods!

I always do head work on our engines, on the other hand Ben's is stock standard. Others may say differently, but my experience has been that RB's really repond to good quality "head work".

As for plenums, if you read my previous posts you will note I prefer standard plenums, up to 450 bhp. Your engine is past that. So it will benefit, you just need to keep the mixtures on the safe side of 12, which your tuner seems to agree with, looking at the A/F ratios on your dyno chart.

For the the Tomei 264's, have the followers been changed to solids? You should be able to pick it on start up, the hydraulics (when you have non standard cams) tend to rattle just a little for a half a second or so. On the other hand solids always have very light ticking (you have to listen hard though).

The more data you have, the easier it is to understand why things are the way they are.

[BU5TER]

Nope there is nothing else at this point that I want to add,

As stated earlier all I was trying to do was point out to you is that the TD06 is not just good for Canter trucks as you've previously quoted here

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...06&pagenumber=3

And on a well set up RB25det is pulling good numbers and backing them up with good times at the creek so I agree with you that they are maybe not the best and there is probably a lot better but in future if you could just be a tad kinder in your description of them I would appreciate it as one day when I sell my car if anyone was to search and read your comments it would be a very bad thing

[Sydneykid]

Sorry Judd, I am totally confused with the point you are trying to make. My point is simple, for the purposes I use them for, I think there are better turbos than Trusts for the same (or lower price).

Turbonetics, KKK (Blitz), IHI (Apexi), Garrett (HKS), Hitachi all make ball bearing turbos and there are far less plain bearing turbos made for petrol engines now than ball bearing. Are all these manufacturers wrong? And only Mitsubishi (Trust) are right?

Why have this overwhelming number of manufacturers moved to ball bearings? The most commonly published reason is durability, they simply last longer and give less trouble than equivalent plain bearing turbos. So throwing up the old chestnut, "it costs more to fix a ball bearing turbo" is pretty silly. Sure it might cost more (in some cases), but they have by far a much lower chance of ever needing fixing.

I would much rather bolt a turbo on and not have to worry about how long it is going to last. Using your words, surely "these turbos are much more affordable, especially in the maitanence dep."

Hope that explains further my stance.

[Sydneykid]

Sorry Buster, nothing personal, but I have no barrow to push, I don't need to sell anything to anyone. When someone asks me a question I give them my opinion, straight up, it's not biased, it's simply based on my experiences.

When you have time, you should have a look at the often referred to post about Trust turbos (10/5/03). You will find it does not say Trust turbos are only good for trucks. It merely states the truth, the original source of TD06's.

Good luck with the car, I will be looking out for it. I truely hope you make it into the HPI top 10.

[dojobi]

I may be missing something fairly big here, but if the cars are set up completely differently (head work etc), how can you even hope to compare the turbos. You essentially need to get the same car, swap turbos, then tune the car for the different turbos. Then take them down the strip. In my eyes, it's as simple as that.

[ed]

geez, I come home to all this?

end of the day, we all have our own opinions of things.

if we all thought the same it would be a boring world

[Guest 570CK]

Judd, I have no idea what your on about.

As for maintanence, I agree BB costs more to repair, but there more reliable. So doesn't that even things up?

[Roy]

Are all these manufacturers wrong? And only Mitsubishi (Trust) are right?

But its not a matter of right vs wrong. In my eyes if a EVO lancer can attain that sort of performance thru the matching of compressor/turbines/materials all for a price that readily met my budget, then its time to stop saving.

Its a bit like Porsche, ppl keep saying they put engines in the wrong spot and have no right to perform as well as they do, but they still do. Its what works.

Not saying im any more enlightened then anyone else, or i got the sale of the century, or i am right, just sharing my experiences.

[Jay95R33]

Originally posted by MIC33R

I may be missing something fairly big here, but if the cars are set up completely differently (head work etc), how can you even hope to compare the turbos. You essentially need to get the same car, swap turbos, then tune the car for the different turbos. Then take them down the strip. In my eyes, it's as simple as that.

MIC33R - in my opinion you have hit the nail on the head.

I am wondering how a simular spec'd turbo from another manufacter would go on Busters engine, as it doesn't seem right comparing one engine with no head work to another that has had head work and different cams done.

J

[Duncan]

Originally posted by Roy

Its a bit like Porsche, ppl keep saying they put engines in the wrong spot and have no right to perform as well as they do, but they still do. Its what works.

Very interesting point there Roy, isn't it possible that for historic or marketing reasons they have stuck with something other than the "best" way to do things...

While I've got no point of view in the HKS rule the world or trust are the best tubros ever discussion, I think a really important point has been highlighted about usable power range.

When you choose a turbo, you've got to consider the rev range it works over, it looks like in the case of the TD06, to use it to its best potential you need to go over the stock rev limit.

On the other hand, this can make it easier to drive on the street, because the boost starts relitively high, its easy to stay off it.....as long as u remember that things really change over 4500

[BU5TER]

I understand your point Jay95R33 and MIC33R but one thing you are both forgetting is how is it at all fair to be comparing my car that has a shoestring budget for development and research to the HPI R34 that has been on a dyno to see the gain or loss of even the smallest mod to the largest mod and a budget which enables them to race interstate to test and tune their car to get the best out of it, using people suck as Sydneykid who is a consulting race engineer and countless other industry leaders to help them achieve there goal and produce power figures

and as quoted in the HPI mag No36 page 8

"If you were to buy a good R34 GTT and do the same work you wouldn't have much change from $90,000"

They are 2 different cars and for very different reasons as stated above it is very unfair to compare the 2 of them even if mine has got some head work the car i'm being compared to has had all but the kitchen sink added to it to see if it gains power or not on a dyno then swapped and changed to make sure of it, to be honest I'd rather have their budget and R&D then my headwork

Please no more comparisions as myself and Syndeykid have both finished and made our points I don't think a lot more can be said that is going to be constructive

[2rismo]

As far as I know, HPI34T had....actually still HAS Tomei cams. Well according to Ben anyway!

I think everyone has said more than enough on this topic. No more bickering. Take it to PM please. Please?

Adrian