Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[buzzboy]

what kind of output would you get from the billet BB SS with the stock compressor housing?and at what kind of boost

Edited February 24, 2011 by buzzboy

[O2 Autosports]

Which turbo do you recommend for a vl turbo?

[hypergear]

I have a feeling this prototype one is going to push close to 300rwkws which wasn't what I'm hopping for, tune booked in on Monday so I should find out what happens. The current SS would push out 250rwkws with factory response.

As for the Holden VL we normally high flow the factory turbo with 3576 equivalent with our custom 58T 76mm comp wheel and .70 comp. That’s enough for it to produce around 300rwkws with pretty good response. Or you can use ATR45 in .82 rear, which is rated to about 650HP.

Stock comp housing is not in my preferred list unless used for KAI or PU profile high flows. They've got an surge grove just above stock comp wheel. Once machined to fit larger comp wheels, it leaves with a shallow grove in between the upper and lower blades. That acts as a Anti-surge slot which has small affects on mid range and top end power.

PU/KAI profile with surge slot removed and intake nozzle back cut and shortened

[hypergear]

More update for the SS profile:

I've had that dyno tuned at status today (Big thanks for Trent's work). I've decided to use traditional sleeve bearing setup instead of ceramic ball bearings, as most people won't be paying that much for such a minior difference. Also I'm not very confident with the BB's "clean oil" theory when putting up with 20 years old engines. (of course I can't tell any one to bugger off and blame your engine oil as Garrett normally do).

This is also the very first FNT experiment with one customized blow nozzle.

Car Dynoed based on 9 sec ramp speed as always, not 12 or 13 secs for happy results.

BP 98 Fuel, No boost controller, No wastegate controller 286rwkws @ 17psi.

BP 98 Fuel, No boost controller, Wastegate controller wastegate controller set

320rwkws @ 20psi

I'm very happy with this results, Its not only as what appeared on paper, its made an very fast street car. boost comes in nice and early, smooth acceleration, minium wheel spin, hard pull till red line.

[Rolls]

holds torque much longer and hence power doesn't dive over early like your other results, looks like the best result I've seen yet, on full song by 4k as well so not that laggy either for the power.

[DVS JEZ]

Very good results. Well done

[Trozzle]

That's damn good imo! Would be sweet with a proper EBC to hold it steady and perhaps come on a tad earlier. Otherwise that's a crazy result.

[Randon_I_Am]

Can you make an atr43g2 into this?

[hypergear]

Yes I'm doing up some drawings on the custom blow nozzles for the current .82 rear housings. which should make a big difference to the current ATR43 and PU high flow's response. I should have that tested and ready in about 2 weeks, if all goes as planned we can carry out updates on customer's turbine housings.

Also my tune was done based on 9 sec ramp timing. I also did a comparison run based on 12 sec ramp timing (in red) which many of the dyno section sheets are, longer ramp rate makes all data appear slightly advanced. This is set depending on tuners preferences.

ps. in run below we were tried to add in more boost which didn't make any more power, so this turbo is fully maxed out at 320rwkws.

[Jap_star]

Which of your turbos / hi flows would you recommend for 250ish rwkw at 1 bar (ish) for best response and mid range?

This superstreet seems very good. But with 80 or so pages. Finding an exact answer seems harder.

All supporting mods with no internal work.

Also, the stronger actuator you have for internally gated turbos runs at what boost as a minimum?

Thanks

[hypergear]

The ATR43SS appeared above would be the best option for that sort of HP. Or if you have a stock R33 or R34 turbo we can also high flow that to archive the same HP goal (250rwkws). The high pressure actuator is recommended as it can hold more boost up on top and excellent working with EBC or MBC.

[Jap_star]

Would you get the same results with the hi flow? It's for a r33. The high pressure actuator is obviously needed, I was more asking if they were left On the turbo with no additional boost controller fitted. Would the actuator hold boost? Anf if so what boost on a high flow

[hypergear]

There are some results of a standard and KAI profile high flow for R33 stock turbo in page one. There has been few updates on the turbine side of it since. The current one should have no issues producing around 240rwkws with high pressure actuator, the driving ability is great on road.

[GeorgesR34]

Also my tune was done based on 9 sec ramp timing. I also did a comparison run based on 12 sec ramp timing (in red) which many of the dyno section sheets are, longer ramp rate makes all data appear slightly advanced. This is set depending on tuners preferences.

Stao How can I find out the ramp speed tuners have used? is that addressed on the sheet? its obviously meaningless in comparison with others unless the ramp rate is identical.

[Jap_star]

It seems your atr28 g2 profile would be suitable for 230rwkw @ 1 bar on a r33 with pretty good response. Is that correct. Any hi flow with a little more power with a bit more lag?

Is this very similar to the same profile for ca18 and sr20

[hypergear]

Well you don't need a .82 rear for 230rwkws. Its more made for high torque 300rwkws applications, that would make a laggy 230rwkws on road. I think high flow based on stock R33 turbo would be your best option for a fast street driven 230rwkws.

Also with the ramp rate, you won't really know it unless its been addressed. Few obvious tails I've noticed with the Dyno pack dyno that I've used:

Notice the high lighted dip and flat bit, you will find that with 12 sec ramp timing on stock Rb25dets. I will do runs on both ramp speeds from now on.

[Rolls]

the 230kw version looks worse than the 320kw version in every respect, even at 3000rpm it is making 20kw less, comes on full song at 4k like the newer one and then tops out at 230kw, is the main difference the transient response? As I know with my gcg highflowed rb20 turbo it makes ~240kw that feels like a stock turbo, on full song by 3k though it does have a BB core.

Is it possible to use the new tech you've used in your 320kw turbo in the smallest sized ones to make say 230-250kw with much better response? or are these benefits entirely due to the different front housing you are using?

Also could you explain a bit more about this blow angle you've changed, what is the theory behind what effect it has on the turbo's performance, as from what I can see this is the main thing that has changed and it seems to have resulted in similar response just it holds torque much longer through the rev range and hence power keeps climbing.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Rolls

[Birds]

Have to concur, that's the exact same dip my standard RB25 made when I dynoed it...what's the reasoning for it occurring with a 12 second ramp rate?

Very odd, because everyone else thought the dyno was reading low that day...but with the longer ramp rate it should have been more optimistic?

[buzzboy]

the 230kw version looks worse than the 320kw version in every respect, even at 3000rpm it is making 20kw less, comes on full song at 4k like the newer one and then tops out at 230kw, is the main difference the transient response? As I know with my gcg highflowed rb20 turbo it makes ~240kw that feels like a stock turbo, on full song by 3k though it does have a BB core.

Is it possible to use the new tech you've used in your 320kw turbo in the smallest sized ones to make say 230-250kw with much better response? or are these benefits entirely due to the different front housing you are using?

[/]

+1

[hypergear]

There are 2x major updates with the SS model.

1st: as mentioned customized blow nozzle. Allows re-direction of hot air to where its needed for the most shaft speed.

I’ve done few drawings and models back in 09, except the building method was too expansive and time consuming to produce and sale. Few close customers have seen my older model, which is on held. This re-constructed model was very time efficient and cost effective to build, it worked as expected. Result was done with a single blow nozzle, I’ve also got a triple nozzle dawning which should be a great upgrade for the ATR43 G3 .82 turbine housing. (will be tested soon)

2nd: Comp wheel. Stronger materials, light weight, greater flow per-rotation.

Not sure if you’ve noticed this SS turbo runs off a machined billet 71mm comp wheel, with stronger materials I’ve shaved out the center hub leaving greater air gaps and larger fins. It is equivalent to a 76mm in 56 Trim wheel with half of its weight.

Back on the high flow agenda, Standard high flow profile has been updated many times through the past 3 years. Results from 09 do not represent 11. Current high flows run a different turbine and waste gating (affective with high pressure actuators) system producing more torque and greater power. I will do some runs with them to update the out dated results.