Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Trozzle]

If it's the exhaust, drop it at the cat and find out. Could also rule out whether it's your intake by removing that completely, but I think you said you have your AFM in front of the turbo

[Harey]

Did another pressure drop test across the intercooler, only about 1psi difference.

How did you do this test?

[SimonR32]

Hi!

Yes, it is the standard turbine ..

I ran this type of boost for over 14 months now ...

But as said, the turbo is not overly stressed since I rarely use the full boost for long.

Also I only have a SMIC from the R34 ..

I heard many stories about how much this unit can take, eventually the turbo might die

So I am already doing the research for a new turbo if my old unit should fail me one day ..

I definitely want to keep the low lag of the standard unit, so 14.7 PSI at 3000rpm is a must.

Attached is an older dyno-run.

Ignore Torque figure / shape, since the operator did not tie my car down well enough

The S_HP in your graph refers to predicted flywheel hp... God knows why you would use that but print it again in just HP and you will find it will be around 280rwhp

[Torques]

Hi,

I actually sent the wrong dyno, was meaning to send torque vs. boost.

But anyhow, the graph was meant to be about boost levels of the standard turbine .. not HP.

Here in the UK it's common practice to plot 'calculated HP' instead to RWKW.

I guess it's because it make people happier

Besides the dyno makes an educated guess about the losses from flywheel to rear-wheel

in the first run on base of calculation/friction-losses.

In OZ it seems to be quite common to plot speed (km/h) on the X-Axes as well, that in turn does not

make sense to me either ..

Cheers

The S_HP in your graph refers to predicted flywheel hp... God knows why you would use that but print it again in just HP and you will find it will be around 280rwhp

[Trozzle]

plotting speed is to avoid people who run in 5th gear and use an RPM plot to show boost coming on earlier, while also making it easier to judge against other people's plots. It does away with variance in drivetrain between cars ie gear used, diff ratio, wheel size.

[GTScotT]

If it's the exhaust, drop it at the cat and find out. Could also rule out whether it's your intake by removing that completely, but I think you said you have your AFM in front of the turbo

This wont help because I am suggesting the restriction is at the flange plate off the back of the turbo.

I think the turbo-dump section is causing turbulence.

Stao you may want to make note of my comments for future developtment of your turbine exit to RB bolt pattern rear end.

[Hanaldo]

How did you do this test?

Used a pressure differential gauge. One line tapped into the hot side, the other line tapped into the cold side.

This wont help because I am suggesting the restriction is at the flange plate off the back of the turbo.

I think the turbo-dump section is causing turbulence.

Stao you may want to make note of my comments for future developtment of your turbine exit to RB bolt pattern rear end.

It's definitely not the exhaust, I take it you haven't heard of Kermit before lol. In any case, I was using a JJR front/dump pipe before I got the custom one made. The new one is much better.

The dump is 80mm all the way from the bellmouth back to the cat, the cat has an 80mm inlet/outlet with a 5" body. The dump and cat-back were made with the cat in mind so we made sure they were the same size and there wouldn't be any restrictions anywhere.

[Trozzle]

While I don't doubt there's unnecessary turbulence caused by the adapter plate Stao uses for the dumb flange, nobody else has issues with it....

[hypergear]

I did put in quite bit of thoughts into the rear adaption point and if you follow the thread there has been different turbine and adaptor casting developed for this purpose.

All the G1/G2/SSx series has an direct open ended port to the flange, the G3 with large .82 rears probably had a tinny bit of material on the way due to its size but all of it has been tapered with plenty of clearance, that won't cause any issues.

I think the main issue is the restriction from factory manifold. I’m predicting all G3 series are capable of doing around the 340rwkws mark with a good aftermarket manifold.

[hypergear]

Little update:

This an 52T version of the SS-2, I don't think I will be producing it as original SS-2 performed better. But it did make more power between 4000-5500RPMs and peaked 522MN of torque. Driving ability on road is excellent.

peak 291rwkws @17psi, 9 sec dyno ramp. (sorry abit hard to see, printer's out of ink)

[Rolls]

you should make one that comes on full song at 3k and aims for the 250kw mark with standard covers, I think lots of people would go for this

[Harey]

you should make one that comes on full song at 3k and aims for the 250kw mark with standard covers, I think lots of people would go for this

Please see the ATR43SS-1 turbo in post #1501 and page 76.

This turbo has fantastic response and makes ~260rwkw on Taos car. This should make at least ~250rwkw on most setups.

I was looking for more response and found that this Turbo has been sitting at the Hypergear workshop while the turbos like the ATR43G3 which are larger making more peak power but also more lag are running out the door.

So I think it is a fallacy that all these people are chasing responsive turbos making ~250rwkw. It seems most of the people that are actually purchasing turbos are choosing larger turbos.

He mentions in that post that he is happy to fit a standard compressor cover if you can provide one etc.

[DJSimmo]

Please see the ATR43SS-1 turbo in post #1501 and page 76.

This turbo has fantastic response and makes ~260rwkw on Taos car. This should make at least ~250rwkw on most setups.

I was looking for more response and found that this Turbo has been sitting at the Hypergear workshop while the turbos like the ATR43G3 which are larger making more peak power but also more lag are running out the door.

So I think it is a fallacy that all these people are chasing responsive turbos making ~250rwkw. It seems most of the people that are actually purchasing turbos are choosing larger turbos.

He mentions in that post that he is happy to fit a standard compressor cover if you can provide one etc.

I think what Rolls ment is stock comp cover and stock rear housing. if thats the case im with Rolls on this one as I would like to see some more development using stock comp cover and op6 or even 2iu

[hypergear]

Most people would still perfer their turbo to flow up to the 300rwkws mark. So I would be going back to the PU high flow profile and see if there are ways to make the .82 rear housing spool abit earlier with better driving ability.

and yes I can use factory comp housing on the SS-1 turbo. Except the inlet side needs to be fully machined out and sleeved to suit which cost more then machine a new housing from scratch. Can be done.

[GTScotT]

I think what Rolls ment is stock comp cover and stock rear housing. if thats the case im with Rolls on this one as I would like to see some more development using stock comp cover and op6 or even 2iu

Stao has hit the mark in his next comment, most people ask for 300rwkw and he already has products that address that.

If he can quite easily make one that will do near 300, im sure he can do one that will do 250.

[DJSimmo]

Stao has hit the mark in his next comment, most people ask for 300rwkw and he already has products that address that.

If he can quite easily make one that will do near 300, im sure he can do one that will do 250.

Agreed! I look forward to testing one on my car in the future!

[hypergear]

PU and G3 .82 revisit:

Most customers with above profiles have managed their peak power goal, How ever its also found to be laggy, unfortunately large frame .82 turbine will not pick up great response.

In this experiment we attempt to change its driving ability by altering its torque behavior through alteration of its turbine geonometery.

The goal would be Smoother and consistent increase of toque that allow driver to feel the solid increase of G force and sticks the car on road through out greater rev range, plus ultimately better off boost driving ability.

I will be installing this turbo this weekend hopefully be getting some positive results.

[hypergear]

New .82 PU high flow is installed. Every thing looked very stock. after some driving this geometry is the far best out of all the others tried (Prototypes made none / little differences or worse wasn't posted).

Much nicer on 1st and 2nd gear, lot faster off the lights, the response is noticeably better, and it pulled like a train with 15psi. It has definitely changed the nothing down low behavior from the standard geometry, and I'm pretty confident it can pull 300rwkws+. Will post result when ready.

Also I've worked on 2 customers cars this weekend. One had mega lag and the other one had some smoking issues.

The customer with the lag issue:

Originally thought to be unsealed waste gate, turned out to be a split rubber hose. The split isn't obvious to low pressure or smoke testers as the hose is hard when the car's cold. I've only detected by pressurizing the actuator through connected hoses. Pretty hard to find but I'm happy to have that sorted.

When above issue experienced try:

1. Release the wastegate actautor from the wastegate arm, open and shut gate by hand, and check for signs of jam.

2. If wastegate swings fine, preload actuator, and connect it back to the wastegate arm.

3. Remove intake pipe and drop the dump check for any signs of damages to the compressor and turbine wheels, feel and spin the turbo shaft. The turbo assembly is generally good if nothing appeared to be abnormal by step 3.

4. Pressure test the intake system, and all vacuum hoses.

2nd customer had smoking issues:

Checked shaft play, drain, breathers and every thing appeared normal. It turned out to be an over filled engine. I've experienced same issue with my sil180 after my servicing workshop purred in 5Ls of engine oil.

We all aware the drain pipe sits slightly above the sump, it can not drain if submerged under oil, causing turbo to flood and leak through both ends. Flooded turbo will smoke, under perform and heat soak.

If experienced with similar problem:

1. Check turbo shaft for abnormal play. (free spinning and un-excessive play generally means good turbo.)

2. Check Oil drain pipe to make sure its not kinked, bend, or capable of storing fluid.

3. Check engine breathers or catch can (I've see some poorly engineered catch cans that holds pressure).

4. Check engine oil level, Make sure its on the H mark, but not above it.

Contact your turbo builder if all 4 steps tried with smoke un-cleared.

[luvpsi]

stao im looking at making 300rwkw on my rb25det in my thoughts the atr43G3 is my best bet what do you think the car is only going to be street driven and possibly some track days

[hypergear]

The ATR43G3 will make that power fine, the updated Turbine geometry will also give better power down low.

Or for the best street result I recommend the ATR43SS-2.