Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[DVS JEZ]

Parts can cost more. More things to go wrong, more

Driveshafts, transfer case etc etc. Buy one and u will understand. As soon as u mention rb26 or GTR the price jumps up

[SlowSkyline]

A dud setup.... The words no one wants to hear but unfortunately it looks like these turbos we are using are very very fussy with what they need. Where would one point then? At the turbo? The exhaust? The whole damn package? I spent close to 6k for most of the gear on my car and it still isn't making the power it should...

Ive done almost everything needed to get an exact replica of the setup this turbo was made on. I'm actually making a raw 90 degree full 3" pipe right now to fit so the intake will no longer be as big of a restriction as it was. I will obviously post back again when I get it on the rollers again just to see if I can get the power I should.

My motor was tested to be healthy with nice strong consistent compression. The issue is everything attached to it lol.

Its almost tempting to return to stock, sell my parts off and go for the GTR. This is my last chance before this otherwise ill either sell it for parts or give it to my brother and get me the gtr.

what front mount have you got? should be making up a 4inch intake!

[Harey]

Nah I thought the SS2 had a 3" front? Dangerous territory mentioning to sarge about relocating his afm which would mean more custom piping and some custom wiring for his afm

The other way to go fellers is to get a more responsive turbo like an SS1 or whatever. It much easier to make 250-260rwkw. The more peak power you shoot for the more restrictions you will hit and have to resolve.

Its very common for the first time you change from a stock setup to not make the power it should. Almost every setup has something that needs to be tweaked or changed. Then once you have the flow sorted you can throw any sort of turbo on and get the full results like Tao's car.

[Hanaldo]

Hanaldo,

Some advice for you... The allstar graph has correction turned on so that adds about 6% on that dynos normal figure. then there is a difference between roller and hub dynos so you loose more with that difference so a genuine 320rwhp may be a more accurate figure. Which is, lets not get mixed up with words, a totally crap result!

Now, the issue with the ecu. My mate had very similar issues with his r34 and power fc. Took him and Sean ages to work out a fix but I believe it was something to do with the traction control. Maybe ask Sean if he remembers how they fixed brads issue, otherwise ill try get brad on here to give you some advice.

Unfortunately if you do get the issue fixed and you don't make substantially more power and response it looks like you may have got a dud set up :-(

Simon

Yehhh, to be honest I'm becoming more and more disappointed with the car the more I drive it. Boost only starts coming on at about 4200rpm, and I only get full boost by 5200rpm. Which is ridiculous on the street. And now that I'm over the excitement of having a new externally gated turbo, I do have to say it's not as fast as I thought it was. I believe I have managed to get the equivalent of a Holden 5L, it sounds amazing but not much else. I'm afraid I'm gonna have to think about where I wanna go with the car now, I should have stuck with the old setup. Or perhaps if I had known how much work and money was required in setting up this turbo then I would have just gone with a 3076 and custom dump pipe.

Anyway, I guess I'll get posting on the NIStune website to see if any of the issues can be resolved, but I'm not confident. Not too keen on pouring another 3-4k into the car to get a ViPEC setup either. For future reference, these are the problems you face when you convert a non-turbo car to turbo. Don't do it newbies, don't do it!

[SargeRX8]

Ive got a genuine Hybrid front mount. 4" intake is not feasible. I just made up a 3", there isn't even enough room for that, I have no idea how I would fit a 4" in there... Custom hot pipe? f**k off no more pipe work for me lol. I have measured everything up for relocating my AFM. My wiring is already setup for it, Ive already got my silicone adapters. The only thing holding me is its one of those things like changing a clutch in your back yard, you get to a point where you cant go back and thats when you think what the hell did I get my self into. Its not a big job but I have the potential to f**k things up.

A garrett will not give more power, nor better response. Tao has shown me results on the same dyno with another rb25 with similar mods to his running a 3076. His turbo made more power everywhere. The turbo can make the power, its just like everyone said. Its not one part to make the power, its an.... abundance of parts working together to achieve one goal.... power.

you need a + b + c + d + e + f + g + h + i + j + k + l + m + o to = POWER. I might be missing i at the moment. Can always add n to the equation.... NOS.

I see alot of you guys aren't actually happy with performance. Its not that I am not happy, its just that I am pissed off that, potentially, my intake pipe could be limiting the power I make.

Ive never needed to use high boost, that is how fun 14psi is with this thing. I still go side ways on 14psi and its more than enough to cause shit stains from passengers who haven't been in a tuned street car.

Edited December 5, 2011 by SargeRX8

[Hanaldo]

Ive got a genuine Hybrid front mount. 4" intake is not feasible. I just made up a 3", there isn't even enough room for that, I have no idea how I would fit a 4" in there... Custom hot pipe? f**k off no more pipe work for me lol. I have measured everything up for relocating my AFM. My wiring is already setup for it, Ive already got my silicone adapters. The only thing holding me is its one of those things like changing a clutch in your back yard, you get to a point where you cant go back and thats when you think what the hell did I get my self into. Its not a big job but I have the potential to f**k things up.

A garrett will not give more power, nor better response. Tao has shown me results on the same dyno with another rb25 with similar mods to his running a 3076. His turbo made more power everywhere. The turbo can make the power, its just like everyone said. Its not one part to make the power, its an.... abundance of parts working together to achieve one goal.... power.

you need a + b + c + d + e + f + g + h + i + j + k + l + m + o to = POWER. I might be missing i at the moment. Can always add n to the equation.... NOS.

I see alot of you guys aren't actually happy with performance. Its not that I am not happy, its just that I am pissed off that, potentially, my intake pipe could be limiting the power I make.

Ive never needed to use high boost, that is how fun 14psi is with this thing. I still go side ways on 14psi and its more than enough to cause shit stains from passengers who haven't been in a tuned street car.

Yeh I'm not saying it's my turbos fault. But I went with the Hypergear turbo because it suited my budget. It ended up blowing my budget out of the water. My fault though, that's fair enough. I just didn't realize how much it was going to cost to set up. Rookie mistake.

[SargeRX8]

Yeh I'm not saying it's my turbos fault. But I went with the Hypergear turbo because it suited my budget. It ended up blowing my budget out of the water. My fault though, that's fair enough. I just didn't realize how much it was going to cost to set up. Rookie mistake.

I made the same... move. Cost more than I anticipated, or should I say it cost more than it should and unfortunately I don't think its going to end just yet.

[Rolls]

Its almost tempting to return to stock, sell my parts off and go for the GTR. This is my last chance before this otherwise ill either sell it for parts or give it to my brother and get me the gtr.

You will have exactly the same problems with a GTR. All high performance skylines are tempermental and need everything perfect to work. It isn't just R33s or just hypergear turbos, it is ALL setups on all performance cars.

Yeh I'm not saying it's my turbos fault. But I went with the Hypergear turbo because it suited my budget. It ended up blowing my budget out of the water. My fault though, that's fair enough. I just didn't realize how much it was going to cost to set up. Rookie mistake.

Which is why I always tell everyone, 250kw+ is a $4k adventure minimum, quite often more when stuff breaks or doesn't work first go.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Rolls

[rondofj]

Is 250rwkw+ a significant leap in speed from approx 200rwkw which is what i've got currently?

[Rolls]

Is 250rwkw+ a significant leap in speed from approx 200rwkw which is what i've got currently?

Yes, it is much much faster, 280kw however isn't as you get a significant increase in lag. 250kw you can get with almost stock like response, it is the most I would go for with a 2.5L street car.

[Hanaldo]

Which is why I always tell everyone, 250kw+ is a $4k adventure minimum, quite often more when stuff breaks or doesn't work first go.

Yeh keep in mind I already had 260rwkw, I was just changing the turbo. Everything in my setup should easily be capable of 300rwkw, I've got the same parts or better than quite a few people who have achieved 300rwkw.

Doesn't quite work that way though

[hypergear]

Halando this remains me six month ago when you are having issues running the G2, Which made a super laggy 199rwkws lol. and it made more power then my test car after realizing the tune issue.

You are back in the same situation, and I can tell you that if your power or boost curve is significantly lower to my test result then there is some thing wrong with other parts of your car. Think, diagnose and fix.

I would pull the external gate off and have a look at the sealing ring inside the flange (or was that ever installed?). If that is not sealed then it would be pretty laggy. Also I didn't like your external gate either, the spring in it was too soft, I can press it all the way down with my thumb. The 44mm gate that I'm using is about 5x times harder then yours, and fully adjustable in pressure load (yours is not).

2ndly your ecu is not running correctly, Looks like it switched it self into knock map at certain RPMs and the ecu is not responding to the knock data sent from the Nistune software. This was a problem that we couldn't fix on my S2 R33. you need to get advise from Nistune people.

With installation, it still runs mostly stock parts. This is a $300 4 hours job that we carry out every week in vic. Fright your car to Melbourne and drive it back with every thing installed and tuned if any of yous are over quoted. And there is no way making and installing custom dumps, lines and every thing else costs less money or labor time.

Also with your dyno day result, it shown 319rwhp on 5600RPMs and backed off, which you are making exact amount at 5600RPMs on your 390rwhp sheet except the peek power at 7000RPMs was never shown. That was not a complete dyno run.

Below is my timing and fuel map of test car on the G3. Fix your ECU and check your external gate then use that as reference for retune. Should end up with exact same result as mine, and that is a totally different driving experience.

[Hanaldo]

Halando this remains me six month ago when you are having issues running the G2, Which made a super laggy 199rwkws lol. and it made more power then my test car after realizing the tune issue.

You are back in the same situation, and I can tell you that if your power or boost curve is significantly lower to my test result then there is some thing wrong with other parts of your car. Think, diagnose and fix.

I would pull the external gate off and have a look at the sealing ring inside the flange (or was that ever installed?). If that is not sealed then it would be pretty laggy. Also I didn't like your external gate either, the spring in it was too soft, I can press it all the way down with my thumb. The 44mm gate that I'm using is about 5x times harder then yours, and fully adjustable in pressure load (yours is not).

2ndly your ecu is not running correctly, Looks like it switched it self into knock map at certain RPMs and the ecu is not responding to the knock data sent from the Nistune software. This was a problem that we couldn't fix on my S2 R33. you need to get advise from Nistune people.

With installation, it still runs mostly stock parts. This is a $300 4 hours job that we carry out every week in vic. Fright your car to Melbourne and drive it back with every thing installed and tuned if any of yous are over quoted. And there is no way making and installing custom dumps, lines and every thing else costs less money or labor time.

Also with your dyno day result, it shown 319rwhp on 5600RPMs and backed off, which you are making exact amount at 5600RPMs on your 390rwhp sheet except the peek power at 7000RPMs was never shown. That was not a complete dyno run.

Below is my timing and fuel map of test car on the G3. Fix your ECU and check your external gate then use that as reference for retune. Should end up with exact same result as mine, and that is a totally different driving experience.

Yes, I'm back to square one again lol. I'm 100% sure the problem isn't with your turbo Stao, so no worries there I just have to find and fix the problem. I just don't know where to start this time

The sealing ring is installed and sealed, I know that for sure. Was very careful in setting up my gate. Also when it was with you it only had the 7psi spring in it. It has now got two 7psi springs and holds 14psi perfectly when run at gate pressure. In addition, I have my EBC set up to apply pressure to the top of the diaphragm so it doesn't creep open at all, holds 18psi (what it is set at for high boost) perfectly.

With regards to the maps you posted, there isn't too much difference between mine and yours. You've got a bit more timing compared to me, which isn't too surprising as my tuner knows I track the car so he would've kept it safe. You've also got more fuel than me in places, you're running richer up top than I am. But that's just Target A/F, so depends on your injector settings and all that. Hard to draw a comparison there.

[hypergear]

Here is the Nistune file: http://www.digi-hardware.com/photos/atr43/atr43g3/atr43g3ss382.bin

download and have a quick look through it. Its running 550cc injectors, My AFR is between 11~11.5 pretty much all the way, and Trent mentioned it was a pretty safe tune. So was yours actually tuned with a ecu fault? does it switching it self into knock mod and looks for knock data instead of normal data at certain rpms?

[DVS JEZ]

Use knock copy or turn off the knock flags so it cant go into knock mode. If its not pinging of course.

Im not sure on the traction control issue u are

Having but i am very curious what it is

[rondofj]

Jez if u remember, my R34 is running a Stagea neo ECU for some reason and my traction controls not working (i think cos of this as stagea ecu dosent have tract control) you didnt have issues tuning my car because of lack of traction control did you? Just thoughts

[hypergear]

Use knock copy or turn off the knock flags so it cant go into knock mode. If its not pinging of course.

Im not sure on the traction control issue u are

Having but i am very curious what it is

Thats when the ECU is not responding to the Software on mine, which either the ecu over rids the software command and uses the original knock data, or if the software is unable to program that section of the ecu. But I haven’t seen this on R34s yet.

[Hanaldo]

So was yours actually tuned with a ecu fault? does it switching it self into knock mod and looks for knock data instead of normal data at certain rpms?

I don't think it is a fault as such. There's nothing actually wrong with the ecu or the NIStune, it's just that the standard ecu isn't liking some of the changes that have been made. And I don't believe it is switching to the knock maps anymore, I did some data logging yesterday and it didn't flip to knock mode once. I think it just made it difficult for Sean to tune so he couldn't get a perfectly smooth curve and the power dropped off a little bit.

I think you are right with the difference between graphs though. If you add on 6% (what Simon mentioned is added for the correction method) to the 318.7 that I got on the roller dyno, then you get 337.8. Which is about exactly the same as the number on the 390 run at 5600rpm.

Use knock copy or turn off the knock flags so it cant go into knock mode. If its not pinging of course.

Im not sure on the traction control issue u are

Having but i am very curious what it is

The knock maps are exactly the same as the primary maps, so there's no difference there. As I said above, I don't think it is switching now that it has been tuned.

[SargeRX8]

Tao are those two graphs up there your exact AFR's, what your wide band reads(I read that is how trent does his tuning, writes his table to target afrs then adjust af curve to meet this)?

My car is being really weird, sometimes it will idle at 14 othertimes I see it idling at 11.1. Can you get me a similar screen dump of a SS2 target afr, what afr you actually want to see come out the exhaust pipe.You run 9's in the top end, isn't that really really low of an afr? Surely it could be a little leaner...

[Rolls]

I think it just made it difficult for Sean to tune so he couldn't get a perfectly smooth curve and the power dropped off a little bit.

I am at a loss to understand how it made tuning difficult if it wasn't changing maps, sounds like traction control or something weird kicking in? is it possible to verify the ignition in the map vs actual ignition where the power dips to see if something is kicking in and pulling timing? Should be fairly easy to data log that.