Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Manuel Kasko]

  On 09/02/2012 at 3:10 AM, Hanaldo said:

Kasko you need to be aware that the feeling you're after doesn't last, you do get used to it. Like you keep referring to your stock turbo giving the feeling you're after, yet if I was to go for a ride in a stock GTT I bet it would feel like I was in a Getz.

Probably the reason why modding is so ridiculously addictive.

My stock r33 felt like a super car web I got out of an auto Mazda 323 into it haha

Cheers for all the info

[Rolls]

  On 09/02/2012 at 4:13 AM, DVS JEZ said:

Heres my torque graph. Never noses over. Keeps climbing. Maybe we should all run small wastegates and let the boost climb the more the rpm increases.

What kind of pussy are you? just weld it shut like all the cool kids

[Birds]

What kind of pussy are you? Just get a eBay split dump pipe like all the cool kids.

P.S. let's be careful not to confuse rear wheel torque with engine torque...

[SargeRX8]

Put a turbo in your turbo so you can have a turbo in your turbo and spool while you spool.

[Harey]

  On 09/02/2012 at 3:10 AM, Hanaldo said:

That's... Exactly what I said. Lol.

Most likely because of my lack of VCT, my G3 doesn't build torque very quickly. It still creates a lot of torque, but it's not a steep curve. My mates TD05 actually has a steeper torque curve, despite being more responsive. It makes less peak torque and less peak power, but the shape of his curve gives his car more of the rush.

Kasko, you need to be aware that the feeling you're after doesn't last, you do get used to it. Like you keep referring to your stock turbo giving the feeling you're after, yet if I was to go for a ride in a stock GTT I bet it would feel like I was in a Getz.

Haha ok but not having VCT would make it more of a rush because below 4500rpm you would have less power but the same top end as the ECU turns it off around then anyway.

[Harey]

  On 09/02/2012 at 4:13 AM, DVS JEZ said:

Heres my torque graph. Never noses over. Keeps climbing. Maybe we should all run small wastegates and let the boost climb the more the rpm increases.

Seriously though thats what I have always thought it would be good to have boost gradually climbing to stop the torque dropping off.

Obvious problem is though on a really cold night etc because the wastegate is maxxed out the boost would climb higher and could get you into trouble. I suppose if you had the tune allow for this it could be ok.

[Kenna802]

  On 09/02/2012 at 2:00 AM, Josh_TypeX said:

No it didn't... Power is directly related to torque. If it made 530Nm at 4200RPM it is making 233kw at 4200RPM.

Can you explain????? My car made 625Nm of Torque but my auto could only handle 212 rwkw

[Harey]

Power (hp) = [rpm * Torque (lb.ft)] / 5252

[DVS JEZ]

Definately. I have another 2 hypergears to tune soon. Well 1 until Kasko buys his ss1

[Josh_TypeX]

  On 09/02/2012 at 3:26 AM, GTScotT said:

No worries, DVS JEZ on this forum tuned it - he has the dyno data for it also

As has been discussed many times on this forum; "Torque" generally can not be compared between Dynos as they measure tractive effort and the torque reading depends on the calibration of the Dyno. Hence saying your 207rwkw SR20 has the torque of a 300kw RB25 is not correct. As you can see from Jez's graph on the previous page, his 300rwkw produces "700Nm" of torque on his Dyno.

A reliable way to calculate actual wheel torque is to use the Power and RPM readings:

T = (Px60x1000)/(RPMx2xPi)

[Manuel Kasko]

  On 09/02/2012 at 5:02 AM, DVS JEZ said:

Definately. I have another 2 hypergears to tune soon. Well 1 until Kasko buys his ss1

The wait is killing me!

Like seriously I cant sleep at night haha and I probably filled up DVS's inbox

[Josh_TypeX]

Harey beat me to it... My equation is based on Kw and Nm.

[dori34]

  On 09/02/2012 at 5:02 AM, DVS JEZ said:

Definately. I have another 2 hypergears to tune soon. Well 1 until Kasko buys his ss1

busy man Jez,

when are you gonna finish off yours and retune it? haha

[DVS JEZ]

Tomorrow night. A customers tyres got slashed at his place so ive finally got some dyno time to my self. Will post in kando thread

[Rolls]

  On 09/02/2012 at 4:47 AM, Harey said:

Seriously though thats what I have always thought it would be good to have boost gradually climbing to stop the torque dropping off.

Obvious problem is though on a really cold night etc because the wastegate is maxxed out the boost would climb higher and could get you into trouble. I suppose if you had the tune allow for this it could be ok.

See the way I see it if you are running the max airflow a turbo can provide at redline, then that same airflow at x psi will be x+y psi in the midrange, hence you should run more boost in the midrange to make the most of the turbo.

Like if you look at the compressor map then the same airflow at redline at 20psi is 25psi in the midrange. So if you can get away with running more boost at redline, you should increase the midrange boost to make the most of it.

Which is why I think turbos should be set based on airflow not psi. Though if you do it this way you are always going to have a massive midrange spike and have torque fall off by redline which just doesn't feel as good for some people, though for drifting etc it is perfect.

Thoughts people?

  On 09/02/2012 at 4:56 AM, Kenna802 said:

Can you explain????? My car made 625Nm of Torque but my auto could only handle 212 rwkw

625nm of tractive torque, not torque at the engine, dynos don't measure engine torque they measure tractive effort.

if you are making 530nM at 4200rpm then you are ALWAYS make 233 kw at 4200rpm, it isn't possible to be anything else.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Rolls

[GTScotT]

  On 09/02/2012 at 5:13 AM, DVS JEZ said:

Tomorrow night. A customers tyres got slashed at his place so ive finally got some dyno time to my self. Will post in kando thread

Must have been my exhaust that rowelled everyone up lol

FKN NOISY ASS CAR *slashes wrong dudes tyres*

[Kenna802]

  On 09/02/2012 at 5:07 AM, Josh_TypeX said:

Harey beat me to it... My equation is based on Kw and Nm.

tell me anyway bud

[hypergear]

  On 09/02/2012 at 4:13 AM, DVS JEZ said:

Heres my torque graph. Never noses over. Keeps climbing. Maybe we should all run small wastegates and let the boost climb the more the rpm increases.

The reason behind that is because your car is running on E85, High mount exhaust manifold and external gate.

Run pump 98, internally gated with stock manifold. That power and torque figure will drop significantly after 6000RPM. which is like:

There are lot more to think about when building a turbo made to perform on Pump 98 and internally gated. A turbo that can deliver performance internally gated on pump 98, has no issues cracking the extra KWs on external gate with E85.

[Harey]

  On 09/02/2012 at 5:33 AM, Rolls said:

See the way I see it if you are running the max airflow a turbo can provide at redline, then that same airflow at x psi will be x+y psi in the midrange, hence you should run more boost in the midrange to make the most of the turbo.

Like if you look at the compressor map then the same airflow at redline at 20psi is 25psi in the midrange. So if you can get away with running more boost at redline, you should increase the midrange boost to make the most of it.

Which is why I think turbos should be set based on airflow not psi. Though if you do it this way you are always going to have a massive midrange spike and have torque fall off by redline which just doesn't feel as good for some people, though for drifting etc it is perfect.

Thoughts people?

Yeah if your car can put the extra mid range torque to the ground then sure. And that is specifically to do with a turbocharger.

In my previous setup it would spin the tyres when it hit boost in the mid range and then torque would fall off higher in the rev range so when you finally got traction it had lost a lot of torque.

I am more talking from a traction point of view. As speed increases, the greater torque you can put to the ground without wheelspin. Therefore ideally for maximum acceleration given a set amount of traction you would have torque increase with rpm.

[Rolls]

  On 09/02/2012 at 5:58 AM, Harey said:

I am more talking from a traction point of view. As speed increases, the greater torque you can put to the ground without wheelspin. Therefore ideally for maximum acceleration given a set amount of traction you would have torque increase with rpm.

From a traction perspective totally agree, in fact you see a lot of factory cars do tricky things to do exactly this, a sharp rise in torque almost always induces wheelspin.

Look at the 3L TT inline 6 BMW engines, all sorts of trickery to keep the torque flatish and not have massive peaks like our cars.